Do you use a fountain pen?

[Robbo 27]

8Ace said:

Another eBay purchase (£1.59 thankyouplease), and one I'm struggling to identify. It's a Waterman's pen probably from the 1960s and feels like a school pen.

It's tiny - just over 10cm long uncapped and 13.5cm posted and very slender. It's black plastic with a steel cap and what looks like an very fine, hooded nib.

The nearest thing I can find online is this::

https://www.etsystudio.com/listing/510181880/reser...

Link above shows the nib, and what the cap and barrel look like (but cap is steel on my one)

The cap has the Waterman lettering on the clip but no other marks. The barrel has what looks like 2-3 chinese characters to the left of Waterman Made in France. The end of the barrel has a silvered W on it.

Frustratingly, I have no idea what it's like to write with. Cult Pens says that Waterman accepts international cartridges /converters but the barrel is so slender that they won't go in.

Pen collection now up to 18. 12 of which have been bought AFTER discovering this thread

Parker 15 Flighter
Parker 17
Parker 25
Parker 45
Parker 51
Parker 61
Parker Frontier x 2
Lamy Al-Star
Pelikan M400 White Tortoise
This little Waterman's one
Jinhao 250 x 2
Jinhao 450
Jinhao 750
Jinhao 159
Jinhao y6
Pilot V Pen

Older Waterman cartridge pens are a problem, even current Waterman cartridges do not fit. I am aware that some people shave the plastic from a standard cartridge to make them fit but this is only going to end badly.

I think you are unlikely to find a Waterman cartridge that will fit the pen - or a converter - I have one unused cartridge for Waterman that you can have, there may be teardrop watermarks on the envelope, but you can have it.

[Robbo 27]

These two arrived today, a Parker 45 that is near new, broad nib, boxed and with a box of cartridges for £5, just washed it through and nothing else needed.

The Duofold is from the early 50s, it must have been rolling around some desk drawer, multiple tiny scraches made in look matt black.













Washed it, given it a light polish but could do with some micromesh sheets on it. Pen has a fine possibly extra fine, semi flex nib which is unusual on a Duofold, most had a Medium.

[8Ace]

Robbo 27 said:

Older Waterman cartridge pens are a problem, even current Waterman cartridges do not fit. I am aware that some people shave the plastic from a standard cartridge to make them fit but this is only going to end badly.

I think you are unlikely to find a Waterman cartridge that will fit the pen - or a converter - I have one unused cartridge for Waterman that you can have, there may be teardrop watermarks on the envelope, but you can have it.

Thanks Robbo, that's very kind of you.

Like your new purchases too. I've been trawling eBay for a couple of weeks but there aren't many bargains - peopel seem quite clued to FPs on there

[Robbo 27]

8Ace said:

Thanks Robbo, that's very kind of you.

Like your new purchases too. I've been trawling eBay for a couple of weeks but there aren't many bargains - peopel seem quite clued to FPs on there

The worst time to look is Sunday evening, there are some bargains on friday afternoon.

Let me know if you need the cartridge, you can always refill it with a syringe, the one that I have is the longer version at 73mm.

Just finished the Duofold, used simichrome and then waxed, looks superb, even if I do say so myself. the plastic on these 50s Duofolds is a little soft which makes then prone to microscratches but very easy to polish up.

[Sway]

I do like the cigar shape of the 'original' duofolds, very nice.

Are they the same approx size as the modern Duofold international?

[Robbo 27]

Sway said:

I do like the cigar shape of the 'original' duofolds, very nice.

Are they the same approx size as the modern Duofold international?

The original Duofolds were made in the mid 1920s and are my all time favourite

This pic is a comparison between old and new




The black Duofold that I have just bought was made in England in the mid 1950s and were so popular at the time, a bit too grand for school use but everyone else had one. Great nibs and nothing to go wrong. I have just flushed this through and given it a polish and it will still be working in another 50 years. The pen is about the same size as the latest Duofold, perhaps a tad slimmer.

At the last London Pen Show I met a very odd woman who was there because she was an environmentalist, no interest in fountain pens other than they would never go to landfill and lasted indefinitely, for the same reason she wouldnt use cartridges.

Her logic wasnt completely sound but I have a rule in life - don't argue with nutters.

Edited by Robbo 27 on Monday 12th June 16:04

[Sway]

I find the little detail changes quite interesting - here's my modern duofold:



Note compared to the modern one you posted Robbo, my modern one has at the end a single thin metal line, the base of the cap has two chunky lines, etc. Presumably I can figure out the manufacture date based on these small changes?

What staggers me, is that a company like Parker bothered to make these changes. In a manufacturing world focused on efficiency, making such changes with such a tenuous link to customer value and therefore sales has a very steep hill to climb for approval...

[Robbo 27]

I have the Duofold book, just going into a game of pool, will have a look and see how the modern Duofold changed over time.

[Robbo 27]

Parker used 1, 2 and 3 caps rings throughout production, here is a comparison between the 92 and 96 models

[Robbo 27]

to date the pen you use the reference

QUALITY PEN

Q 1990
U 1991

ETC

N 1999

Q 2000
N 2009

after the year code is a quarter code

IIP JAN FEB MAR
IIP APR MAY JUN
IP JUL AUG SEP
P OCT NOV DEC

FROM 2007

P111
P11
P1
P

[AlexC1981]

It's been a quiet two or three weeks on the restoration front for me as my weekends have been taken up with various activities lately. Doing more writing at work. Leaving a handwritten note on a colleagues desk seems to get more attention than an email which can be skipped over amongst hundreds of other emails. I have had to draw the line against hand written memos though. I'm considered eccentric enough as it is!

I acquired an attractive Sheaffer Valiant 2 with a Triumph nib, which looks good, but needs a service to the plunger filling system and the feed is set a little too far forward. I need to research this thoroughly before I do anything.

8Ace said:

Another eBay purchase (£1.59 thankyouplease), and one I'm struggling to identify. It's a Waterman's pen probably from the 1960s and feels like a school pen.

Maybe convert it to an eyedropper filler? It would have a massive ink capacity that way, just don't unscrew the barrel by accident

If Rob sends you the cartridge, you could syringe fill as he suggests or maybe you could snip the cartridge in half when it's empty and shellac a latex sac over the open end. Just squeeze the sac to fill. I wonder if that would work

[AlexC1981]

CandC said:

Parcel was just delivered this morning......

How did the work go on your Senior Duofold? Been waiting for an update
Did you ever get the feed out?

[AlexC1981]

Prohibiting said:

Much prefer my M800 0.6mm cursive italic

I find it nice to write with one pen for a week or until the ink runs out and then switch to another to enjoy the experience of using something different. Give it some time yet, you might find after a few more weeks with the M800 that you fancy a change. I hope you get a good price for it if you sell.

[Sway]

Robbo 27 said:

to date the pen you use the reference

QUALITY PEN

Q 1990
U 1991

ETC

N 1999

Q 2000
N 2009

after the year code is a quarter code

IIP JAN FEB MAR
IIP APR MAY JUN
IP JUL AUG SEP
P OCT NOV DEC

FROM 2007

P111
P11
P1
P

Hmm, that would make mine (showing T1) a Q3 2015 UK pen...

Only thing is, that I started at my current place prior to then, and the chap who I bought it off hadn't been at Parker for some time.

Intriguing!

[Robbo 27]

Sway said:

Hmm, that would make mine (showing T1) a Q3 2015 UK pen...

Only thing is, that I started at my current place prior to then, and the chap who I bought it off hadn't been at Parker for some time.

Intriguing!

The Parker Pens site works ona different calculation giving a T1 as third quarter 2005

2000 - Q.III Q.II Q.I Q (change)
2001 - U.III U.II U.I U
2002 - A.III A.II A.I A
2003 - L.III L.II L.I L
2004 - I.III I.II I.I I
2005 - T.III T.II T.I T
2006 - Y.III Y.II Y.I Y

2007 - P.III P.II P.I P
2008 - E.III E.II E.I E
2009 - N.III N.II N.I N

2010 - Q.III Q.II Q.I Q
2011 - U.III U.II U.I U

This might make more sense?

[Sway]

It does, thanks.

[markoc]

A couple of months in and I'm finding a small issue with my refillable Cross. Not sure if it is technique or "they all do that sir". After refilling I find that the pen is very susceptible to dropping blobs of ink at the smallest wobble. Once I've had a good write with it (and probably used up the ink in the endy bit) it is as normal again. Any tips?

[Robbo 27]

markoc said:

A couple of months in and I'm finding a small issue with my refillable Cross. Not sure if it is technique or "they all do that sir". After refilling I find that the pen is very susceptible to dropping blobs of ink at the smallest wobble. Once I've had a good write with it (and probably used up the ink in the endy bit) it is as normal again. Any tips?

There are a number of things to check before we point the finger at the pen. I don't have a Cross at the moment but the last one was fine and Cross pens generally do not drop blobs of ink although they do run through a lot of ink, my last Cross would empty a cartridge in a day whereas a Parker would last a week for the same use.

1. Does this blobbing happen with a cartridge. if it does then the pen needs to go back to Cross, they will charge you around £5 for p and p. Your problem is the setting of the nib and feed, not something that you can fix easily.

2. Sorry if this is insulting. Are you using the correct converter for your pen. Cross make two types of converter and they are not interchangeable.

3. The blobbing could also be caused by air coming into the pen from the converter because it is not fully pushed home (easily fixed) or because the converter has a fault, an air leak. You can identify if this is an issue only by buying another converter. Or if you know someone with another Cross pen swap converters and see how that goes.

4. The problem may be fixable with a change in technique when filling. Have a tissue ready. When you fill the pen lift the nib clear of the ink before the final turn of the converter, in effect you are pulling a little air into the pen. Dab the nib and feed lightly with the tissue.

Try the last one first, and if #4 fails then #3, investigate #2 and finally #1.

Its a given that you are using a good ink such as Cross, Parker, Waterman or Montblanc (and not Diamine) and also that there is no chance that water could have been added to the ink.

Hope this helps.

[C&C]

AlexC1981 said:

How did the work go on your Senior Duofold? Been waiting for an update
Did you ever get the feed out?

After soaking it for several weeks, I was still unable to get any reasonable flow through with a bulb and tube.

The collector/feed itself (apparently in common with many others) is not complete - probably due to a previous "restoration", so it's missing the curve bit. Apparently this doesn't make a lot of difference to the actual operation of the pen.

Well, I got sick of soaking, ultrasound, soak, ultrasound so decided to try to get the nib and feed out of the section.

Made a DIY knock out block with a bit of wood and gently tapped it out.

The channel along the feed was still mostly gummed up with solidified india ink (would have taken months to dissolve with the pen cleaner solution), so I made an improvised tool by sanding down a cocktail stick and managed to clean most of it out. Then cleaned the nib itself and put it and the feed back to soak for a bit longer. I've cleaned up the rest of the body and have ordered the sac, so will put it all back together when the sac arrives. I'll post some pics - probably next week.

In other restoration news, I'm a bit stuck with the 2 Dinkies as I still can't get the sections off the bodies. I'll pick them up every couple of days and have another go with heating with the hairdryer, but I'm reluctant to try too much force as previous pens I've managed to get apart without needing section pliers, just using my hands, gently heat and a couple of bits of cycle innertube to grip them. I've also read of pen restorers sometimes following this process and remaining patient as ultimately with enough heat cycles the pens do tend to come apart.

[Robbo 27]

Looking forward to seeing the results on the Duofold.

I guess that its not impossible that someone has used some other glue in the past, superglue perhaps, hope not.

I know you want to see this through yourself as opposed to using a professional, must admit that there have been times when I have given up and sent a pen away - half hoping that they would come back and say it cannot be done, hasnt happened to date.