Do you use a fountain pen?
Discussion
ClockworkCupcake said:
Robbo 27 said:
That is an amazing pen CC, really envious.
Thanks! Robbo 27 said:
There is often a number stamped on the end of the barrel, often reading something like 6/101
Sadly not on this one. The barrel end is smooth and very slightly rounded. There are hallmarks all over the pen, but no model number that I can see. Robbo 27 said:
There are some Mabie Todd experts, would you mind if I showed the pic to see if anyone has some better information?
Not at all! Please do. This is a public forum after all. 
Hope to have some better information for you in the morning.
A very unusual pen, thanks for posting.
The pen dates from 1933, made in its entirety by Mabie Todd, it has seen very little use, otherwise the chasing on the gold would have been worn.
I would suggest no more restoration other than a light polish with a yellow duster, you will appreciate that this is a valuable and sought after pen.
I would suggest no more restoration other than a light polish with a yellow duster, you will appreciate that this is a valuable and sought after pen.
Robbo 27 said:
The pen dates from 1933, made in its entirety by Mabie Todd, it has seen very little use, otherwise the chasing on the gold would have been worn.
I would suggest no more restoration other than a light polish with a yellow duster, you will appreciate that this is a valuable and sought after pen.
Thanks Robbo, very interesting. I would suggest no more restoration other than a light polish with a yellow duster, you will appreciate that this is a valuable and sought after pen.
How are you able to tell it dates from 1933? Have you been able to determine the model type? Or is it some attribute of the pen that was only introduced in 1933? I'm always interested in how these things are determined - it's part of the fun of it for me.
ClockworkCupcake said:
Thanks Robbo, very interesting.
How are you able to tell it dates from 1933? Have you been able to determine the model type? Or is it some attribute of the pen that was only introduced in 1933? I'm always interested in how these things are determined - it's part of the fun of it for me.
A few things give a clue to the date, the spoon shape on the filler would mean no later than 1938, the long section and how that is shaped would mean no later than 1935, the popularity of gold or silver pens reduced after the War. How are you able to tell it dates from 1933? Have you been able to determine the model type? Or is it some attribute of the pen that was only introduced in 1933? I'm always interested in how these things are determined - it's part of the fun of it for me.
However the biggest clue is the hallmark for 1933, even without that I would still have said early 1930s.
Mabie Todd used to put a code stamped on the barrel of their pens referring to the type of nib, 1,2,4,6, 8. The vast majority being sized 2, the code then referred to the colour of the barrel and pen. Black was the most popular at the time but the least attractive now.
The model range was named after birds, The Swan being the flagship, followed by the Blackbird, then the Jackdaw, more of a school pen and other names for foreign markets.
I dont think they marked the gold and silver pens, it was just the best of the range. As I said before, other makers used to produce a pen and other people used to make a gold or silver sleeve or overlay onto the pen, this still happens with pen makers such as Henry Simpole
http://www.henrysimpole.com/
His pens start at around £1000 and, I think, are made on commission only.
I dont think your pen was made in this way.
You have the best of the best, a gold Swan, without personalisation, little or no wear, no dents, all original. Its worth a lot of money.
If ever you need any work doing to it, there are a number of people who could 'have a go' but only one UK repairer who is a Mabie Todd Specialist, it would be worth sending it to a specialist, not that it looks like any work is needed.
How did you come by it?
Robbo 27 said:
However the biggest clue is the hallmark for 1933, even without that I would still have said early 1930s.
D'Oh! Schoolgirl error on my part. Of course I should have looked up the hallmark date!!!Robbo 27 said:
You have the best of the best, a gold Swan, without personalisation, little or no wear, no dents, all original. Its worth a lot of money.
Ah, I see. I thought that Swan was a brand name like, say, Cadillac, rather than just a model name. So I was expecting something like the Swan 1234 by Mabie Todd, rather than the Mabie Todd Swan, if that makes sense. Robbo 27 said:
How did you come by it?
It's my father's. He has very kindly given it to me along with a Waterman C/F also in gold, which I will mention in another post. And also a honking great Warco pillar drill dating from 1980 which I have also had fun dating, and a rotary bench grinder also by Warco of a similar age. In the same trip, my mum also found a Parker Slimfold that belonged to my grandmother which she has given to me. So a productive trip.
The Slimfold is a nice easy straightforward pen, semi flex nib, would make a good everyday writer today. The Waterman CF pens often need a lot of cleaning and flushing to make them work well, cartridges are a problem if it doesnt have a converter.
Looking forward to seeing the pics in due course.
Looking forward to seeing the pics in due course.
Robbo 27 said:
The Waterman CF pens often need a lot of cleaning and flushing to make them work well, cartridges are a problem if it doesnt have a converter.
My CF does have a converter, but sadly the rubber sac was solid and when I gave it a squeeze it shattered and disintegrated. The converter is also seized solid in the pen and I'm nervous about applying too much force to it. The underside of the section says "Garniture Or 18C" and "G 2 2 9 9 2".
As best as I can deduce from the hallmark, it's 9K gold with 18K gold nib, and was assayed in London in 1994. I thought the pen was older than that, though. I'll have to see if my dad (or, more reliably, my mum) can throw some light on that.
I'll get some photos up in due course.
Edited by ClockworkCupcake on Thursday 6th July 11:55
ClockworkCupcake said:
My CF does have a converter, but sadly the rubber sac was solid and when I gave it a squeeze it shattered and disintegrated. The converter is also seized solid in the pen and I'm nervous about applying too much force to it.
The underside of the section says "Garniture Or 18C" and "G 2 2 9 9 2".
As best as I can deduce from the hallmark, it's 9K gold with 18K gold nib, and was assayed in London in 1994. I thought the pen was older than that, though. I'll have to see if my dad (or, more reliably, my mum) can throw some light on that.
I'll get some photos up in due course.
Converters and cartridges for the CF are no longer available, there is a company that makes a mini cartridge that fits but I cannot for the life of me remember who it is, I think it came up in an earlier post.The underside of the section says "Garniture Or 18C" and "G 2 2 9 9 2".
As best as I can deduce from the hallmark, it's 9K gold with 18K gold nib, and was assayed in London in 1994. I thought the pen was older than that, though. I'll have to see if my dad (or, more reliably, my mum) can throw some light on that.
I'll get some photos up in due course.
Edited by ClockworkCupcake on Thursday 6th July 11:55
However, you are lucky, I have a full cartridge and I have recently found a Waterman converter that will fit.
The ink flow on this pen was difficult even when the pen was new, the pens are usually exceptionally good looking but the design of the feed let them down, here is an exploded pic of the pen.
I would suggest that you unscrew the hood from the connector and that will give you good access to the feed and nib so that you can clean everything of the old dried ink, you might need to use a hair dryer on the hood to undo it.
You could do with something to seal the hood when you put it back together, not glue obviously although I heard of one professional repairer who uses Pritt for sealing threads.
Let me know if you would like the cartridge.
So, as promised, here are some pics of the Waterman C/F
Converter before I squeezed too hard and it shattered:
And after...
And the hallmark:
RichardsPens suggests this is the Barleycorn (Grain d’Orge) pattern.
The pen itself was owned for years by my dad, and then he lost it. He then bought the Swan to replace it.
Years later my mum found it again in a plant pot - it's unclear whether it was inside or outdoors - but that would account for the poor state of the sac.
There is some discolouration on the end of the barrel (you can see it in the pics) and also some dents on the cap. So overall it's not in great condition.
It's still a good looking pen though.
Thank you very much for the offer of the cartridge, Rob. Very kind of you. I think that, given I have a converter (albeit without sac) I will save you the cost and inconvenience of posting the cartridge to me and decline your kind offer.
Right now, I'm pondering the best way of removing the converter. It seems pretty solidly jammed in there. It is probably corrosion-welded.
Converter before I squeezed too hard and it shattered:
And after...
And the hallmark:
RichardsPens suggests this is the Barleycorn (Grain d’Orge) pattern.
The pen itself was owned for years by my dad, and then he lost it. He then bought the Swan to replace it.
Years later my mum found it again in a plant pot - it's unclear whether it was inside or outdoors - but that would account for the poor state of the sac.
There is some discolouration on the end of the barrel (you can see it in the pics) and also some dents on the cap. So overall it's not in great condition.
It's still a good looking pen though.
Thank you very much for the offer of the cartridge, Rob. Very kind of you. I think that, given I have a converter (albeit without sac) I will save you the cost and inconvenience of posting the cartridge to me and decline your kind offer.
Right now, I'm pondering the best way of removing the converter. It seems pretty solidly jammed in there. It is probably corrosion-welded.
Correction: Just been talking to my mum, and it seems my dad didn't buy the Swan to replace the Waterman. He merely started using it. It was apparently a gift to his parents by some friends of theirs and was passed down to him.
I didn't think he was into vintage pens.
Also, mum has just confirmed that the Waterman was found in an outdoor plant pot, so it's amazing it isn't more corroded. Of course, being 9K gold will have helped there enormously.
I didn't think he was into vintage pens.
Also, mum has just confirmed that the Waterman was found in an outdoor plant pot, so it's amazing it isn't more corroded. Of course, being 9K gold will have helped there enormously.
Edited by ClockworkCupcake on Thursday 6th July 16:08
ClockworkCupcake said:
So, as promised, here are some pics of the Waterman C/F
Converter before I squeezed too hard and it shattered:
And after...
And the hallmark:
RichardsPens suggests this is the Barleycorn (Grain d’Orge) pattern.
The pen itself was owned for years by my dad, and then he lost it. He then bought the Swan to replace it.
Years later my mum found it again in a plant pot - it's unclear whether it was inside or outdoors - but that would account for the poor state of the sac.
There is some discolouration on the end of the barrel (you can see it in the pics) and also some dents on the cap. So overall it's not in great condition.
It's still a good looking pen though.
Thank you very much for the offer of the cartridge, Rob. Very kind of you. I think that, given I have a converter (albeit without sac) I will save you the cost and inconvenience of posting the cartridge to me and decline your kind offer.
Right now, I'm pondering the best way of removing the converter. It seems pretty solidly jammed in there. It is probably corrosion-welded.
CC you have some choices to make but again this is a high value pen, very special and unusual. I would suggest that you simply send it to a professional and ask them to remove the dents and get it working like it was new.Converter before I squeezed too hard and it shattered:
And after...
And the hallmark:
RichardsPens suggests this is the Barleycorn (Grain d’Orge) pattern.
The pen itself was owned for years by my dad, and then he lost it. He then bought the Swan to replace it.
Years later my mum found it again in a plant pot - it's unclear whether it was inside or outdoors - but that would account for the poor state of the sac.
There is some discolouration on the end of the barrel (you can see it in the pics) and also some dents on the cap. So overall it's not in great condition.
It's still a good looking pen though.
Thank you very much for the offer of the cartridge, Rob. Very kind of you. I think that, given I have a converter (albeit without sac) I will save you the cost and inconvenience of posting the cartridge to me and decline your kind offer.
Right now, I'm pondering the best way of removing the converter. It seems pretty solidly jammed in there. It is probably corrosion-welded.
I dont think that your converter will be servicable again, its possible that the repair person can put another sac into it but its a real faff. You are welcome to my converter.
Not sure if the initials are those of your father in which case you will want to retain them, otherwise they can probably be polished out, as can any staining on the pen.If you go ahead I would ask him to set up the pen for as full flow as possible, they tend to run dry.
The man that I would recommend for this is Eric Wilson eckiefump@googlemail.com
Parents had a lot of taste when it came to buying pens, all gold and top quality.
Robbo 27 said:
I dont think that your converter will be servicable again, its possible that the repair person can put another sac into it but its a real faff. You are welcome to my converter.
That's extremely generous of you. Thank you - that would be wonderful. 
I noticed on another thread that you mentioned you were thinking of getting a mains powered mechanical polisher for the car. I have a Halfords one that I have never used and would be more than happy to send it to you as a token of thanks for everything you have sent me so far, and for your fantastic contribution to this thread.
Robbo 27 said:
The man that I would recommend for this is Eric Wilson eckiefump@googlemail.com
Thank you - I will look into that. I'm a little short on cash at the moment, so for now I think the pen will go into the folder that you very kindly sent me, and further down the line I will look at getting it repaired. Robbo 27 said:
Parents had a lot of taste when it came to buying pens, all gold and top quality.
Yes, I have been very fortunate to get some absolutely lovely pens from them haven't I. 
I still adore that Targa by Sheaffer with the steampunk wear.
ClockworkCupcake said:
Yes, I have been very fortunate to get some absolutely lovely pens from them haven't I.
I still adore that Targa by Sheaffer with the steampunk wear.
No problem, I have your address, it will be in the mail on Friday. It is kind of you to offer the polisher but it was just a thought, I suspect I am better off polishing by hand, knowing me I might go through the lacquer.I still adore that Targa by Sheaffer with the steampunk wear.
Eric would probably charge around £20 plus postage.
You may be able to remove the hood from the connector to clean out the pen, the old converter would probably come away at the same time.
Finally, for completeness, two Parkers that I also got from my parents on the recent visit.
The first is a Parker Slimfold, which my mum thinks may have belonged to my paternal grandmother.
Doing the usual research, it looks like the Slimfold was introduced in the late 1950s and redesigned with a “45” style straight cap in the late 1960s. So this would date this one somewhere in that range. The very earliest pens had an ‘N’ for Newhaven on the nib, but were soon replaced with a numeric model designation, with ‘5’ denoting the Slimfold which is what this pen has.
Although faint, it is possible to see “Parker Slimfold” and “Made in England” engraved on the barrel. On the filler it has “The Parker Pen Co. Ltd. London, England” and “To fill, press ribbed bar at least 5 times”
Pencollect suggests that this is an early Mk1, with aerometric filler, 14k gold nib, and “a cap with a gold plated short length feathered arrow and a gold plated cap band with a chevron pattern engraved into it as well as a small plastic jewel screwed into the cap top to match the main pen colour”.
Parkerpens.net suggests that green was the most uncommon colour.
The other Parker is fairly nondescript and because it has corporate advertising on it, makes me think it was a “freebie” pen given to my dad back in the days when gifts were a perfectly normal and acceptable thing to be given in the course of business.
Unusually for my Parker collection, this one is "Made in USA" rather than a UK pen.
The first is a Parker Slimfold, which my mum thinks may have belonged to my paternal grandmother.
Doing the usual research, it looks like the Slimfold was introduced in the late 1950s and redesigned with a “45” style straight cap in the late 1960s. So this would date this one somewhere in that range. The very earliest pens had an ‘N’ for Newhaven on the nib, but were soon replaced with a numeric model designation, with ‘5’ denoting the Slimfold which is what this pen has.
Although faint, it is possible to see “Parker Slimfold” and “Made in England” engraved on the barrel. On the filler it has “The Parker Pen Co. Ltd. London, England” and “To fill, press ribbed bar at least 5 times”
Pencollect suggests that this is an early Mk1, with aerometric filler, 14k gold nib, and “a cap with a gold plated short length feathered arrow and a gold plated cap band with a chevron pattern engraved into it as well as a small plastic jewel screwed into the cap top to match the main pen colour”.
Parkerpens.net suggests that green was the most uncommon colour.
The other Parker is fairly nondescript and because it has corporate advertising on it, makes me think it was a “freebie” pen given to my dad back in the days when gifts were a perfectly normal and acceptable thing to be given in the course of business.
Unusually for my Parker collection, this one is "Made in USA" rather than a UK pen.
Edited by ClockworkCupcake on Thursday 6th July 17:30
The bottom pen is a Parker Frontier, these pens write very wll and are as tough as old boots, give it a soak and if you want to polish out any scratches use some Solvol Autosol, only about the size of a couple of grains of rice and then polish away, it will come up like new. really good pens and one of the best pens Parker produced in the modern era. The nib section has a thin plastic film over it which didnt do much and it looks bad when it gets tatty, I would just get rid of it now.
The Slimfold again will polish up with solvol on the metal and plastic parts.These nibs have some flex to them and that nib looks better than a standard medium, is a broad or a bit stubbish?
these are nice pens, all very useable.
The Slimfold again will polish up with solvol on the metal and plastic parts.These nibs have some flex to them and that nib looks better than a standard medium, is a broad or a bit stubbish?
these are nice pens, all very useable.
Edited by Robbo 27 on Thursday 6th July 17:50
Robbo 27 said:
The bottom pen is a Parker Frontier
Thanks for that. I think you are right - the pen exactly matches the pictures at https://parkerpens.net/frontier.htmlThe cap has "IIIP" engraved below "Made in USA". According to RichardsPens that means it was made in the 1st quarter of 1997.
I might wipe the barrel with a little nail varnish remover to remove the corporate branding, then polish up as you suggest.
It should bring it up nicely.
I confess that because it was a "freebie" I rather discounted it as of any interest, but after your comments I'm changing that opinion.
I'd say that the the Slimfold's nib is on the broad side of medium.
Talking of nibs, I think the Swan might have an italic / oblique nib. Quite a subtle one when looked at with a loupe.
Edited by ClockworkCupcake on Thursday 6th July 18:40
ClockworkCupcake said:
Thanks for that. I think you are right - the pen exactly matches the pictures at https://parkerpens.net/frontier.html
The cap has "IIIP" engraved below "Made in USA". According to RichardsPens that means it was made in the 1st quarter of 1997.
I might wipe the barrel with a little nail varnish remover to remove the corporate branding, then polish up as you suggest.
It should bring it up nicely.
I confess that because it was a "freebie" I rather discounted it as of any interest, but after your comments I'm changing that opinion.
I'd say that the the Slimfold's nib is on the broad side of medium.
Talking of nibs, I think the Swan might have an italic / oblique nib. Quite a subtle one when looked at with a loupe.
I dont know what the effect of nail varnish remover might be on the pen - I wouldnt do it. Try running with a polish and see what happens, it might just disappear.The cap has "IIIP" engraved below "Made in USA". According to RichardsPens that means it was made in the 1st quarter of 1997.
I might wipe the barrel with a little nail varnish remover to remove the corporate branding, then polish up as you suggest.
It should bring it up nicely.
I confess that because it was a "freebie" I rather discounted it as of any interest, but after your comments I'm changing that opinion.
I'd say that the the Slimfold's nib is on the broad side of medium.
Talking of nibs, I think the Swan might have an italic / oblique nib. Quite a subtle one when looked at with a loupe.
Edited by ClockworkCupcake on Thursday 6th July 18:40
That Swan is an absolute gem, so nice to have something father to son but when it is so very desirable it takes it to a whole new level. Can I suggest that if there is any cleaning to be done it is just with a dry yellow duster, no chemicals, water or solvents.
It would be nice if you could find the correct box for the pen, something like this one.
Pens in the original boxes are like model cars in boxes, the value to collectors and investors goes up 10 fold.
Robbo 27 said:
I dont know what the effect of nail varnish remover might be on the pen - I wouldnt do it. Try running with a polish and see what happens, it might just disappear.
I've used acetone on plastic before now. It strips off any printing and leaves the plastic a little dulled. I found this by accident when cleaning a pair of headphones once and stripped the logo off it by accident. I went ahead and did it and, as expected, the corporate logo just wiped straight off, and then further application and some rubbing removed it entirely. The gloss of the barrel has also gone matte, as expected, but should come back with polishing.
It had an empty Parker cartridge in it, so I put a fresh one in, and it writes really well. Quite a nice pen actually. I might put a converter in it at some stage - I haven't decided yet.
The stainless steel cap has my dad's initials laser etched into it in rather nasty block capitals, which rather detracts from it. Unlike the corporate branding, I don't think there's a lot I can do about that.
Edited by ClockworkCupcake on Friday 7th July 13:09
If the converter of the Waterman C/F is indeed corrosion-welded to the section, what would be the best way of freeing it?
If it were a seized nut on a car then obviously I'd be using Plus Gas (or other penetrating fluid) or a blow torch, but those don't really seem like a good idea here.
Would immersing in hot-ish water help? Or, alternatively, putting it in the fridge? Anything to cause some differential contraction / expansion.
If it were a seized nut on a car then obviously I'd be using Plus Gas (or other penetrating fluid) or a blow torch, but those don't really seem like a good idea here.
Would immersing in hot-ish water help? Or, alternatively, putting it in the fridge? Anything to cause some differential contraction / expansion.
ClockworkCupcake said:
If the converter of the Waterman C/F is indeed corrosion-welded to the section, what would be the best way of freeing it?
If it were a seized nut on a car then obviously I'd be using Plus Gas (or other penetrating fluid) or a blow torch, but those don't really seem like a good idea here.
Would immersing in hot-ish water help? Or, alternatively, putting it in the fridge? Anything to cause some differential contraction / expansion.
If you can remove the hood, it unscrews, you might need to warm it up with a hairdryer, then you are left with the feed bits and the nib, a connector and the stuck on converter. If the sac is gone you can be quite rough with it but first soak it in some warm water with detergent, if that doesnt work and there are no plastic parts to be contaminated go for the plus gas. Just a very thorough wash. I havent seen Plus Gas for so many years, it used to be in an oblong can with a metal spout, this was pre aerosol days. After research I see that its still around now but I dont know if its better or worse than something like WD40, I suspect better.If it were a seized nut on a car then obviously I'd be using Plus Gas (or other penetrating fluid) or a blow torch, but those don't really seem like a good idea here.
Would immersing in hot-ish water help? Or, alternatively, putting it in the fridge? Anything to cause some differential contraction / expansion.
If it doesnt work try the fridge, assuming you have removed the hood.
Hope the converter has arrived.
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