Half a world, and half a lifetime away.
Discussion
Rich_W said:
And despite all our rivalries with the French, good on them.
can someone explain my anti-French memories then? Were there public demonstrations in French supporting the Argies? For some reason I had remembered France continuing to supply missiles and jets to the enemy, but sounds like that was incorrect.Adam B said:
can someone explain my anti-French memories then? Were there public demonstrations in French supporting the Argies? For some reason I had remembered France continuing to supply missiles and jets to the enemy, but sounds like that was incorrect.
The French played both sides:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17256975
8th April
Douglas Haig and his team arrive in London.
Haig has his first meetings with the British. He had three themes
- Military withdrawal by both sides
- an interim administration,
and - a long-term settlement.
British sources are 'worried' by an apparent lack of understanding of the essence of the British position. Ultimately, he is informed that the UK would return to the negotiating table when Argentina honoured Resolution 502. Haig leaves for Argentina.
LT Col Vaux, commanding 42 Commando, holds a parade, and gives the command "To the South Atlantic, quick - march!" The unit proceeds to Southampton, where Canberra is waiting.
One company does not take part in this parade, and is kept in isolation at the gym. There are other plans for Major Guy Sheridan's 110 men.
America’s Embassy in Buenos Aires, telegrams the US Embassy in London; “Under Secretary Ros called me in this morning to discuss arrangements for the Secretary’s visit. He complained about the harsh statements coming out of London .. He emphasized that the Foreign Ministry wants and has always wanted a negotiated solution. The problem is that Ros and Costa Mendez do not speak for the navy. We are getting ultra-tough sounds out of that quarter, including statements that the Secretary (Haig) should not come here … feelings are running high in the navy. One bitter complaint is that the commandos failed to have complete surprise and thus took casualties .. because we had given the British advance intelligence obtained by ‘satellite’.”
SD.
ps - note to mods. What's the best way of embedding video in these posts? Should I upload to youtube and link from there?
Douglas Haig and his team arrive in London.
Haig has his first meetings with the British. He had three themes
- Military withdrawal by both sides
- an interim administration,
and - a long-term settlement.
British sources are 'worried' by an apparent lack of understanding of the essence of the British position. Ultimately, he is informed that the UK would return to the negotiating table when Argentina honoured Resolution 502. Haig leaves for Argentina.
LT Col Vaux, commanding 42 Commando, holds a parade, and gives the command "To the South Atlantic, quick - march!" The unit proceeds to Southampton, where Canberra is waiting.
One company does not take part in this parade, and is kept in isolation at the gym. There are other plans for Major Guy Sheridan's 110 men.
America’s Embassy in Buenos Aires, telegrams the US Embassy in London; “Under Secretary Ros called me in this morning to discuss arrangements for the Secretary’s visit. He complained about the harsh statements coming out of London .. He emphasized that the Foreign Ministry wants and has always wanted a negotiated solution. The problem is that Ros and Costa Mendez do not speak for the navy. We are getting ultra-tough sounds out of that quarter, including statements that the Secretary (Haig) should not come here … feelings are running high in the navy. One bitter complaint is that the commandos failed to have complete surprise and thus took casualties .. because we had given the British advance intelligence obtained by ‘satellite’.”
SD.
ps - note to mods. What's the best way of embedding video in these posts? Should I upload to youtube and link from there?
Edited by shed driver on Saturday 8th April 13:00
I had just turned 16 at the time, and was half way through the Royal Navy recruitment process. Quite sobering to watch ships burning halfway around the world when you know its the career you've chosen. How my mother dealt with it I'll never know.
My kids are 18 and 16, and neither seems old enough to be starting a career, let alone one that might end with a missile arriving in your "office"
My kids are 18 and 16, and neither seems old enough to be starting a career, let alone one that might end with a missile arriving in your "office"
Rich_W said:
Poland! f
king Poland! (the Government I should add!) After we helped them through WW2 against occupation! Ungrateful wkers! 
In 1982 the Polish Government that provided the 4th largest allied army in WW2 was still in exile in London because they'd been sold down the river at Yalta 38 years earlier resulting in Poland simply swapping one oppressive regime for another. They basically had no choice but to follow the Russian lead especially considering events in the country around that time. Perhaps if Britain had done more to support Polish sovereignty after WW2 the Polish government would have been in a better position to support Britain over the Falklands.king Poland! (the Government I should add!) After we helped them through WW2 against occupation! Ungrateful wkers! jurbie said:
Rich_W said:
Poland! fking Poland! (the Government I should add!) After we helped them through WW2 against occupation! Ungrateful wkers!
In 1982 the Polish Government that provided the 4th largest allied army in WW2 was still in exile in London because they'd been sold down the river at Yalta 38 years earlier resulting in Poland simply swapping one oppressive regime for another. They basically had no choice but to follow the Russian lead especially considering events in the country around that time. Perhaps if Britain had done more to support Polish sovereignty after WW2 the Polish government would have been in a better position to support Britain over the Falklands.king Poland! (the Government I should add!) After we helped them through WW2 against occupation! Ungrateful wkers! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal
Vaud said:
thank you, glad it wasn't my failing memory or some latent FrancophobiaAdam B said:
thank you, glad it wasn't my failing memory or some latent Francophobia
Nothing wrong with a bit of latent Francophobia 
9th April
3 Commando Brigade sail from Southampton aboard SS Canberra.
European Economic Community approve economic sanctions against Argentina (Ireland and Italy veto).
Alexander Haig contacts President Reagan with his view on the previous day’s negotiations. President Reagan gives his reply. Read Jim Rentschler's views sent to Robert 'Bud' McFarlane.
In Brazil, the Jornal do Brasil announces;
Jornal do Brasil said:
“We are on the edge of a confrontation. The fact that a powerful fleet was ready to sail after only 5 days preparation when the normal time for an operation of such scope is usually much greater, is a clear indication of English intentions. … It is important, however, not to lose sight of the fact that there took place a violent action – and that any possibility of a successful outcome to any negotiations depends on the fact that acceptable satisfaction is given to the country that suffered the action – in this case England…. The possibility that Argentina could invoke, in its defence, the Rio Treaty, is fading away: and this means simply that Argentina cannot make use of the natural instrument for the defence of countries of the continent. And it cannot, because it was, in this case, the aggressor. ..”
(Jim Rentschler was the NSC official responsible for European matters, who handled the Falklands for the White House throughout the crisis. McFarlane was assistant to Alexander Haig.)SD.
Adam B said:
Vaud said:
thank you, glad it wasn't my failing memory or some latent Francophobia"You must know that the French government never knows what French security are doing"
10 th April
Haig arrives in Buenos Aires, and holds a meeting with the Junta. The mob outside is vocal and in a patriotic fervour. Haig finds General Galtieri marginally more rational than the mob, and is completely unable to convince the latter that yes, the British are serious, and no, they're not bluffing. Galtieri consumes much whisky during the meetings, to the American’s alarm.
Haig left with the impression that perhaps the Argentinians would accept a simultaneous military withdrawal as long as some sign of the island's altered status was left in place, such as the Argentine flag, even if they acknowledged that the UK would not concede sovereignty in advance of negotiations. Some form of interim administration while negotiations went ahead could be acceptable.
EEC sanctions against Argentina come into effect (against the wishes of Italy and Ireland).
M Company, 42 commando (Major Sheridan's mob), and a detachment of Special Forces, fly from Brize-Norton to Ascension, where they then are transferred to HMS Antrim and RFA Tidespring which had sped on ahead of the rest of the ships.
SD.
Haig arrives in Buenos Aires, and holds a meeting with the Junta. The mob outside is vocal and in a patriotic fervour. Haig finds General Galtieri marginally more rational than the mob, and is completely unable to convince the latter that yes, the British are serious, and no, they're not bluffing. Galtieri consumes much whisky during the meetings, to the American’s alarm.
Haig left with the impression that perhaps the Argentinians would accept a simultaneous military withdrawal as long as some sign of the island's altered status was left in place, such as the Argentine flag, even if they acknowledged that the UK would not concede sovereignty in advance of negotiations. Some form of interim administration while negotiations went ahead could be acceptable.
EEC sanctions against Argentina come into effect (against the wishes of Italy and Ireland).
M Company, 42 commando (Major Sheridan's mob), and a detachment of Special Forces, fly from Brize-Norton to Ascension, where they then are transferred to HMS Antrim and RFA Tidespring which had sped on ahead of the rest of the ships.
SD.
Adam B said:
shed driver said:
EEC sanctions against Argentina come into effect (against the wishes of Italy and Ireland).
what was their issue?Source - Martin, L. (1992). Institutions and Cooperation: Sanctions during the Falkland Islands Conflict.International Security Vol 16, Issue 4 (Spring 1992) pp 143-178.
SD.
Last night (10th April) I caught a bit of a programme on Channel 4 called Warship. They had a bit about the Atlantic Conveyor and showed a picture like this one:
Well worth a watch - Link to C4 catch up
Well worth a watch - Link to C4 catch up
skeggysteve said:
Last night (10th April) I caught a bit of a programme on Channel 4 called Warship. They had a bit about the Atlantic Conveyor and showed a picture like this one:
Well worth a watch - Link to C4 catch up
Saw that on catch up today - there's a thread about HMS Ocean elsewhere I believe. Atlantic Conveyor was a major strategic loss - it almost derailed the entire campaign as the vast majority of the heavy lift helos were onboard. I will be covering the loss in greater detail soon.Well worth a watch - Link to C4 catch up
SD.
12th April
200 mile maritime exclusion zone around the Islands declared by Britain to prevent Argentine reinforcements and supplies reaching the Islands from the mainland. The TEZ will become a source of controversy later.
British submarine Spartan arrives on station off Stanley;
Haig arrives in London at 05:40, and discovers that nobody thought to arrange transport for him.
He eventually finds some cars, and recuperates for a while before entering more meetings. Francis Pym (Foreign secretary) hints that the British might agree to a joint administration with sovereignty on the table for later talks, but Resolution 502 had to come first. That said, no tight deadlines, no Argentine access to the islands until it was arranged, and the principle of self-determination needed to be affirmed.
This wasn't too far off what Nicanor Costa Mendez (Argentine foreign minister) was proposing, so Haig gives him a call to try to hammer out final details, only to discover the Argentine position had changed and they were now demanding a fixed timetable for a transfer of sovereignty.
HMS Spartan, nuclear attack submarine, becomes the first warship (Outside of the Ice Patrol Ship HMS Endurance) to arrive at the Total Exclusion Zone.
Majority of the Task Force arrives at Ascension, and starts on-loading the masses of stores and equipment flown to Wideawake (The US air base there) by the RAF. The US Air Force also transfers stores, notably the new AIM-9L all-aspect Sidewinder missile. Britain was going to get them delivered anyway, the US just bumped them up the priority list, diverting NATO stocks. The Lima was going to prove one of the war-winners in the coming air war: Unlike previous heat-seeking missiles, the 'L' was sensitive enough to detect a target from any direction, whereas previous versions including the Argentinian missiles, needed to be fired from behind the target where the exhaust was visible.
SD.
200 mile maritime exclusion zone around the Islands declared by Britain to prevent Argentine reinforcements and supplies reaching the Islands from the mainland. The TEZ will become a source of controversy later.
British submarine Spartan arrives on station off Stanley;
Haig arrives in London at 05:40, and discovers that nobody thought to arrange transport for him.
He eventually finds some cars, and recuperates for a while before entering more meetings. Francis Pym (Foreign secretary) hints that the British might agree to a joint administration with sovereignty on the table for later talks, but Resolution 502 had to come first. That said, no tight deadlines, no Argentine access to the islands until it was arranged, and the principle of self-determination needed to be affirmed.
This wasn't too far off what Nicanor Costa Mendez (Argentine foreign minister) was proposing, so Haig gives him a call to try to hammer out final details, only to discover the Argentine position had changed and they were now demanding a fixed timetable for a transfer of sovereignty.
HMS Spartan, nuclear attack submarine, becomes the first warship (Outside of the Ice Patrol Ship HMS Endurance) to arrive at the Total Exclusion Zone.
Majority of the Task Force arrives at Ascension, and starts on-loading the masses of stores and equipment flown to Wideawake (The US air base there) by the RAF. The US Air Force also transfers stores, notably the new AIM-9L all-aspect Sidewinder missile. Britain was going to get them delivered anyway, the US just bumped them up the priority list, diverting NATO stocks. The Lima was going to prove one of the war-winners in the coming air war: Unlike previous heat-seeking missiles, the 'L' was sensitive enough to detect a target from any direction, whereas previous versions including the Argentinian missiles, needed to be fired from behind the target where the exhaust was visible.
SD.
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