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Probably thanks to Covid it stayed a bit under the radar earlier this year:
Operation Rubicon, ‘The intelligence coup of the century’ As the Washington Post calls it
For decades the CIA read the encrypted communications of allies and adversaries. Thanks to Cryptoleaks it was uncovered. Cryptoleaks is based on nearly three hundred pages of classified CIA and German Bundesnachrichtendienst documents. Journalist Peter F. Müller obtained the documents. Together with journalists working for The Washington Post, German broadcaster ZDF, Swiss broadcaster SRF, the Crypto Museum Eindhoven and platform for investigative journalism Argos. More than a year of research went into the investigation.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&t...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world...
Concerning the Falkland War:
When the British triumphed in the Falkland War in 1982, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's popularity soared to unprecedented heights, as the loss heralded the end of the Argentine junta. That might have turned out quite differently if British spies had not been able to secretly listen in on the internal communication of the enemy.
At least, this is stated in an internal CIA evaluation of Operation Rubicon. Above every page of the fist-sized report is "Top Secret," and the US intelligence agency, unhampered by too much modesty, calls the global operation the "Intelligence Coup of the Century." The German colleagues from the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), who also participated in the top-secret cooperation, called it one of the most successful intelligence operations since World War II, "without exaggeration."
Until today it was unknown to the outside world that between 1970 and 1993, these two services, together with the American eavesdropping organization NSA, listened on a large scale with encrypted communications from governments in dozens of countries. It led to an important information position during many influential moments in history, from the military coup in Chile to the Camp David agreement between Israel and Egypt. And so also the Falkland War. In addition, "Rubicon" would sometimes even have determined the course of things, the authors claim in the evaluation reports.
The secret CIA report states, "In 1982, Argentina's ability to read encrypted communications became critical to Britain's warfare to reclaim the Falkland Islands." The BND also states "that the outcome of the 1982 Falkland War was significantly influenced, if not determined" by Operation Rubicon.
The Argentines learned in the early 1980s that their secure communication devices had been compromised and that this had resulted in the British getting crucial information. They were furious with CAG, the supplier from Switzerland, but were persuaded to buy CAG stuff again. Not only because improvements were made to the devices, the CIA report shows, but also because they struck a deal with CAG. In exchange for stopping the discovered weaknesses (so that other CAG customers would not drop out), the Argentines were provided with information to crack the CAG devices of neighboring country and rival Chile. With secret services, it turns out that there is yet another secret behind every secret.
Operation Rubicon, ‘The intelligence coup of the century’ As the Washington Post calls it
For decades the CIA read the encrypted communications of allies and adversaries. Thanks to Cryptoleaks it was uncovered. Cryptoleaks is based on nearly three hundred pages of classified CIA and German Bundesnachrichtendienst documents. Journalist Peter F. Müller obtained the documents. Together with journalists working for The Washington Post, German broadcaster ZDF, Swiss broadcaster SRF, the Crypto Museum Eindhoven and platform for investigative journalism Argos. More than a year of research went into the investigation.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&t...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world...
Concerning the Falkland War:
When the British triumphed in the Falkland War in 1982, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's popularity soared to unprecedented heights, as the loss heralded the end of the Argentine junta. That might have turned out quite differently if British spies had not been able to secretly listen in on the internal communication of the enemy.
At least, this is stated in an internal CIA evaluation of Operation Rubicon. Above every page of the fist-sized report is "Top Secret," and the US intelligence agency, unhampered by too much modesty, calls the global operation the "Intelligence Coup of the Century." The German colleagues from the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), who also participated in the top-secret cooperation, called it one of the most successful intelligence operations since World War II, "without exaggeration."
Until today it was unknown to the outside world that between 1970 and 1993, these two services, together with the American eavesdropping organization NSA, listened on a large scale with encrypted communications from governments in dozens of countries. It led to an important information position during many influential moments in history, from the military coup in Chile to the Camp David agreement between Israel and Egypt. And so also the Falkland War. In addition, "Rubicon" would sometimes even have determined the course of things, the authors claim in the evaluation reports.
The secret CIA report states, "In 1982, Argentina's ability to read encrypted communications became critical to Britain's warfare to reclaim the Falkland Islands." The BND also states "that the outcome of the 1982 Falkland War was significantly influenced, if not determined" by Operation Rubicon.
The Argentines learned in the early 1980s that their secure communication devices had been compromised and that this had resulted in the British getting crucial information. They were furious with CAG, the supplier from Switzerland, but were persuaded to buy CAG stuff again. Not only because improvements were made to the devices, the CIA report shows, but also because they struck a deal with CAG. In exchange for stopping the discovered weaknesses (so that other CAG customers would not drop out), the Argentines were provided with information to crack the CAG devices of neighboring country and rival Chile. With secret services, it turns out that there is yet another secret behind every secret.
Edited by DeltonaS on Wednesday 8th July 19:01
RicksAlfas said:
RizzoTheRat said:
Just looked up his book "The Red and Green Life Machine" on Amazon, sadly a bit expensive for me to try, anyone read it?
I'm just reading it now, thanks to this thread.My local library had a copy!
Brilliant read if you can get your hands on it.
Fortunately a bit of googling turned up a signed hardback copy from Oxfam for £28 delivered, which is now on its way to me!
Excellent thread SD - I was still at school in 1982, but remember watching the news every night.
Just finished the thread (took me a week - still got a bunch of links open to plough through - I'm another one here who missed it first time around).
Massive thanks to Shed Driver and the other contributors...been an education (I was at Junior school when it all kicked-off, so remember following it from a school-boy's perspective...bit different when you're in your 40s reading about it).
Massive thanks to Shed Driver and the other contributors...been an education (I was at Junior school when it all kicked-off, so remember following it from a school-boy's perspective...bit different when you're in your 40s reading about it).
havoc said:
I was at Junior school when it all kicked-off, so remember following it from a school-boy's perspective...bit different when you're in your 40s reading about it).
Same here, but my teachers husband was on one of the carriers so we were probably following it closer than most 8-9 year olds, still don't remember much from the time though.On my FB feed I am getting lots of Argentine ‘Malvinas’ clips with interviews with FAA pilots etc.
One thing they mention is the need for air to air refuelling to reach the islands, apparently their Skyhawks had AAR capability but a lot of their planes didn’t, and so were not effective.
They only had two AAR tankers - both KC-130 Hercules. If the air to air refuelling couldn’t take place, the Skyhawks could not reach the Falklands and get back.
So, why didn’t we take out the Argentine AAR capacity?
One thing they mention is the need for air to air refuelling to reach the islands, apparently their Skyhawks had AAR capability but a lot of their planes didn’t, and so were not effective.
They only had two AAR tankers - both KC-130 Hercules. If the air to air refuelling couldn’t take place, the Skyhawks could not reach the Falklands and get back.
So, why didn’t we take out the Argentine AAR capacity?
Ayahuasca said:
So, why didn’t we take out the Argentine AAR capacity?
Maybe we tried? Chances are the AAR bit was done sufficiently close to the Islands to make it beneficial to the Argies but probably far enough away to put it safely out of range of the Harriers etc.At least one Argie C130 was shot down by a traditional guns kill from a Harrier. It took quite a battering apparently, before the fighter resorted to strafing the flight deck.
(Just checked and the downed C130 wasn’t a tanker)
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 22 November 15:16
I think one of the reasons is that the Task Force (including the carriers) were operating so far to the east of the Islands they were jokingly called the West African Navy. There was no UK air to air refueling in theatre (except the huge logistical effort for the Black Buck raids). It is possible that an anti-air destroyer could have been stationed between the Islands and the mainland to engage the C130 but without air cover a ship is very vulnerable to air power.
I've got some friends who served down there and one or two contacts in the Argentine navy at the time. I'll see if I can find a definitive answer.
SD.
I've got some friends who served down there and one or two contacts in the Argentine navy at the time. I'll see if I can find a definitive answer.
SD.
Just read the recently published "Harrier 809"
Some fascinating info in there.
https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/111/1117480/harrie...
Some fascinating info in there.
https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/111/1117480/harrie...
I think the Argentine hercules that got shot down had been on a resupply mission to Stanley airfield and got intercepted just north of pebble Island, the two KC-130s were refueling the Argentine skyhawks much closer to the mainland and although the Royal navy weren't quite in West Africa they were a lot further east of the main islands so it would probably of been a stretch for a sea harrier to bring one down.
I'm sure I read at least one skyhawk was damaged and losing fuel and had to stay connected to the tanker on the return journey until just before it could land.
I'm sure I read at least one skyhawk was damaged and losing fuel and had to stay connected to the tanker on the return journey until just before it could land.
dirky dirk said:
Just been listening to a podcast about this,
We had to get pilots from all over apparently
If the book is accurate (and no reason to believe it isn't) then there were some difficulties in getting the boys in blue to work under the command of the Navy.We had to get pilots from all over apparently
Yes, there were very few pilots with experience of operating VTOL aircraft from ships but it seems the pilots picked it up very quickly with few dramas.
louiechevy said:
the two KC-130s were refueling the Argentine skyhawks much closer to the mainland
Yep, even with AAR their time on station over the Islands was single figure minutes IIRC.The one about the Swiss-cheese Skyhawk flying all the way back to Argentina plugged in to a tanker is true. Heard it many times. Fuel was, apparently, visibly pouring from the airframe in flight.
Tyre Tread said:
Yes, there were very few pilots with experience of operating VTOL aircraft from ships but it seems the pilots picked it up very quickly with few dramas.
There was a book of cartoons, written by a couple of those serving in Falklands, of which I can remember one being a picture of a matelot glueing some grass to the deck of the Ark Royal saying, “Bleedin’ crabfat pilots!”Will see if I can find the book...
Edited to add book cover - Up the Falklands!
Edited by PomBstard on Sunday 22 November 18:52
I've just stumbled onto this thread having absent-mindedly Googled the name of one of the ships of which my dad was the CO. Weird to see it mentioned, with a scary fact about the events that he hasn't mentioned to me before!
Edit: Having re-checked the timeline my dad wasn't CO during the events described in this thread - he was down there on the same ship a couple of years later to patrol. Phew!
Edit: Having re-checked the timeline my dad wasn't CO during the events described in this thread - he was down there on the same ship a couple of years later to patrol. Phew!
Edited by threadlock on Friday 12th March 16:30
threadlock said:
I've just stumbled onto this thread having absent-mindedly Googled the name of one of the ships of which my dad was the CO. Weird to see it mentioned, with a scary fact about the events that he hasn't mentioned to me before!
Edit: Having re-checked the timeline my dad wasn't CO during the events described in this thread - he was down there on the same ship a couple of years later to patrol. Phew!
OP here, fancy sharing some of the details? If I've got any documents that may be of interest I'll happily share.Edit: Having re-checked the timeline my dad wasn't CO during the events described in this thread - he was down there on the same ship a couple of years later to patrol. Phew!
Edited by threadlock on Friday 12th March 16:30
SD.
edit: - also noted some of the sound recordings from HMS Glasgow are now dead links. I'll see if I can rehost them.
A mate of mine who is in the reserves is over there right now, there for six months (what a good time to be over there, it's not like he's missing much over here) - he's been sending me some cracking pics, mostly of penguins!
He sent me some belters plus video of last Saturday night in the Globe Tavern - it was rocking! Even had decent totty in there by the look of it.
He sent me some belters plus video of last Saturday night in the Globe Tavern - it was rocking! Even had decent totty in there by the look of it.
Ref the "Red and green life machine" book, not sure if its exactly the same but Rick Jolly also has "Doctor for Friend and Foe: Britain's Frontline Medic in the Fight for the Falklands" which relays his experience during the conflict, not sure how different they are, but the latter book is only £9.
Rick Jolly (and others) are also in this program, which I thought was good:"Falklands Combat Medics" https://youtu.be/ettWJKRBc54
Rick Jolly (and others) are also in this program, which I thought was good:"Falklands Combat Medics" https://youtu.be/ettWJKRBc54
This thread is my 'go to' re the Falklands War, so I thought I would post these two Bog entries here - might add some detail re the actual (Argentine) invasion.
https://rickydphillipsauthor.wordpress.com/2016/03...
https://rickydphillipsauthor.wordpress.com/2016/03...
Author Ricky D. Phillips military history Bog
https://rickydphillipsauthor.wordpress.com/2016/03...
https://rickydphillipsauthor.wordpress.com/2016/03...
Author Ricky D. Phillips military history Bog
shed driver said:
It's been an honour to compile this timeline, all that remains is to publish the lists of the fallen on both sides. As soon as I have all the names of the Argentinean dead I will post them together, Brothers in Arms.
SD.
Having only recently returned to PistonHeads, I found the link to this epic thread on Friday and have spent too many hours following it and many of the links. Thank you for putting the time and effort into this (and to all who contributed) it's refreshed many memories and introduced some things I wasn't aware of.SD.
I had the privilege of visiting the Falklands a few years ago and visited all the major battle sites and memorials. It was good to see them all so wonderfully tended but a shame to see the Argentinian grave looking quite shabby.
The hatred the locals have for the Argentinians surprised me until my friend (senior RAF officer) took me to visit a sheep farm where a woman told us about the invasion and how she was at school in Stanley and seperated from her family for the duration. She described the fear in her mother's voice when she phoned home at the start of the invasion as if it happened the day we visited them. Quite chilling.
PomBstard said:
There was a book of cartoons, written by a couple of those serving in Falklands, of which I can remember one being a picture of a matelot glueing some grass to the deck of the Ark Royal saying, “Bleedin’ crabfat pilots!”
Will see if I can find the book...
Edited to add book cover - Up the Falklands!
LOL - I've got that somewhere Will see if I can find the book...
Edited to add book cover - Up the Falklands!
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