Protecting wealth before marriage ?
Discussion
El stovey said:
Venturist said:
In my own experience and that of all those relationships I see around me, successful and unsuccessful, it's the men who would do absolutely anything for their wives who got burned. A lack of backbone in a man and a failure to look after his own self-interest, which we are led to believe as being noble, is the slow cause of death for his wife's attraction to him.
Extraordinary. That someone who shares their wealth is seen as weak and infact so weak that the wife goes off him? 
I'm beginning to see why you think you shouldn't share. Is it that by having more wealth than your partner. You have more power and she'll respect you more (and remain attracted to you) as a result.
It's basically about retaining wealth to have control and more respect?
BTW: Power is demonstrated by how much you can control your own actions and life, not other peoples. Typically powerful people tend to aquire wealth, its a result of rather than a cause IMO.
Venturist said:
You're not quite there yet, you're still thinking too shallow. Think along the lines of something being earned vs something gifted.
Pop the question to your girlfriend after five years of dating and she'll (hopefully) be over the moon. Pop the question on the first date and she'll probably leg it. Why? It's not about the thing that's being given itself, because arguably if her only goal was to one day be married then she'd jump on that easy opportunity. It's because if you just give something away unconditionally then clearly even you don't value it much, and therefore it's evidently not very valuable.
After five years of dating, though, she knows you've thought about it a long time, weighed up your options at length, and decided that it's something you want to do. (Unless you're doing it because she nagged you )
In another analogy, we all know that bloke in the office who's DESPERATE to be everyone's mate. Meanwhile there's a bloke who's a really interesting, friendly, funny chap who'll have a great chat when you've got a common subject and he's got time, but you also appreciate that when he's busy, he's not to be bothered.
Which one do you prefer to make a cuppa with?
Looking out for yourself and your own interests we are always told is selfish, but in reality garners respect. Being selfless actually shows you value yourself below others, and if you don't even think much of yourself, why would anybody else?
Lead with "what's mine is yours forever, no questions asked, no conditions" and initially she'll be thrilled because who doesn't like free stuff? But long-term that sacrifice you made means nothing because it cost her nothing.
Lead with "what's mine is yours and yours is mine, whilst we are together, but let's be pragmatic and take steps to ensure that if things don't work out, nobody is worse off" you establish that things have value to you therefore are seen as valuable, you will always take care of yourself because you have a spine, and that while you are more than happy to share - this is not just a signing-over.
Indeed. Pop the question to your girlfriend after five years of dating and she'll (hopefully) be over the moon. Pop the question on the first date and she'll probably leg it. Why? It's not about the thing that's being given itself, because arguably if her only goal was to one day be married then she'd jump on that easy opportunity. It's because if you just give something away unconditionally then clearly even you don't value it much, and therefore it's evidently not very valuable.
After five years of dating, though, she knows you've thought about it a long time, weighed up your options at length, and decided that it's something you want to do. (Unless you're doing it because she nagged you
)In another analogy, we all know that bloke in the office who's DESPERATE to be everyone's mate. Meanwhile there's a bloke who's a really interesting, friendly, funny chap who'll have a great chat when you've got a common subject and he's got time, but you also appreciate that when he's busy, he's not to be bothered.
Which one do you prefer to make a cuppa with?
Looking out for yourself and your own interests we are always told is selfish, but in reality garners respect. Being selfless actually shows you value yourself below others, and if you don't even think much of yourself, why would anybody else?
Lead with "what's mine is yours forever, no questions asked, no conditions" and initially she'll be thrilled because who doesn't like free stuff? But long-term that sacrifice you made means nothing because it cost her nothing.
Lead with "what's mine is yours and yours is mine, whilst we are together, but let's be pragmatic and take steps to ensure that if things don't work out, nobody is worse off" you establish that things have value to you therefore are seen as valuable, you will always take care of yourself because you have a spine, and that while you are more than happy to share - this is not just a signing-over.
Edited by Venturist on Thursday 27th April 14:31
I'm sure El Stovy will disagree :-)
Venturist said:
El stovey said:
Extraordinary. That someone who shares their wealth is seen as weak and infact so weak that the wife goes off him?
I'm beginning to see why you think you shouldn't share. Is it that by having more wealth than your partner. You have more power and she'll respect you more (and remain attracted to you) as a result.
It's basically about retaining wealth to have control and more respect?
You're not quite there yet, you're still thinking too shallow. Think along the lines of something being earned vs something gifted.I'm beginning to see why you think you shouldn't share. Is it that by having more wealth than your partner. You have more power and she'll respect you more (and remain attracted to you) as a result.
It's basically about retaining wealth to have control and more respect?
Pop the question to your girlfriend after five years of dating and she'll (hopefully) be over the moon. Pop the question on the first date and she'll probably leg it. Why? It's not about the thing that's being given itself, because arguably if her only goal was to one day be married then she'd jump on that easy opportunity. It's because if you just give something away unconditionally then clearly even you don't value it much, and therefore it's evidently not very valuable.
After five years of dating, though, she knows you've thought about it a long time, weighed up your options at length, and decided that it's something you want to do. (Unless you're doing it because she nagged you
)In another analogy, we all know that bloke in the office who's DESPERATE to be everyone's mate. Meanwhile there's a bloke who's a really interesting, friendly, funny chap who'll have a great chat when you've got a common subject and he's got time, but you also appreciate that when he's busy, he's not to be bothered.
Which one do you prefer to make a cuppa with?
Looking out for yourself and your own interests we are always told is selfish, but in reality garners respect. Being selfless actually shows you value yourself below others, and if you don't even think much of yourself, why would anybody else?
Lead with "what's mine is yours forever, no questions asked, no conditions" and initially she'll be thrilled because who doesn't like free stuff? But long-term that sacrifice you made means nothing because it cost her nothing.
Lead with "what's mine is yours and yours is mine, whilst we are together, but let's be pragmatic and take steps to ensure that if things don't work out, nobody is worse off" you establish that things have value to you therefore are seen as valuable, you will always take care of yourself because you have a spine, and that while you are more than happy to share - this is not just a signing-over.
Edited by Venturist on Thursday 27th April 14:31
I understand your viewpoint perfectly but can't see it leading to success in relationships myself. Fair enough if you've found a partner that agrees with it though.
Imagine your boss told you that he no longer expects you to do any work. You still have to come into the office and sit at the desk 9-5, and he'll still pay you in full, but you don't need to do anything at all ever again.
How long do you think until you find yourself coming in late and going home early because you hate being there?
How long until you start hunting for another job - even though it'd pay the same?
Now imagine in your new job you've got the same salary, with much more demanding projects - but an excellent boss and workplace which makes you pleased to go into work every day, feel valued as an employee, feel like you've actually accomplished something every day.
How long do you think until you find yourself coming in late and going home early because you hate being there?
How long until you start hunting for another job - even though it'd pay the same?
Now imagine in your new job you've got the same salary, with much more demanding projects - but an excellent boss and workplace which makes you pleased to go into work every day, feel valued as an employee, feel like you've actually accomplished something every day.
El stovey said:
I certainly find your linking of willingness to share in a relationship to wealth and power and even self-worth as odd. Are you actually married? I find it unusual that many wives or partners would agree with you TBH.
I understand your viewpoint perfectly but can't see it leading to success in relationships myself. Fair enough if you've found a partner that agrees with it though.
I was married once (I'm better now I understand your viewpoint perfectly but can't see it leading to success in relationships myself. Fair enough if you've found a partner that agrees with it though.
)Stereotypical good guy and doormat, couldn't do enough for her, rarely put myself first, etc. Received nothing but her growing unhappiness with the situation, eventual divorce.
Repeat the same basic scenario with a string of unsuccessful relationships afterward, until I finally got myself together and started putting myself first - practically overnight change, string of happy girlfriends (each I eventually dumped them for my own reasons, have never been the dumpee since), much more enthusiastic and loyal than my exes, happy to be with me, respected my needs and wishes, etc.
I'd never go back.
If this is alien to you, then either you're naturally someone who puts himself first but doesn't notice he does so (I have friends like this), or you're lucky and found the rare woman who breaks the mould - or you're me a decade ago and in for a bad time in the future - I hope not
Venturist said:
I was married once (I'm better now )
Stereotypical good guy and doormat, couldn't do enough for her, rarely put myself first, etc. Received nothing but her growing unhappiness with the situation, eventual divorce.
Repeat the same basic scenario with a string of unsuccessful relationships afterward, until I finally got myself together and started putting myself first - practically overnight change, string of happy girlfriends (each I eventually dumped them for my own reasons, have never been the dumpee since), much more enthusiastic and loyal than my exes, happy to be with me, respected my needs and wishes, etc.
I'd never go back.
If this is alien to you, then either you're naturally someone who puts himself first but doesn't notice he does so (I have friends like this), or you're lucky and found the rare woman who breaks the mould - or you're me a decade ago and in for a bad time in the future - I hope not
Definitely noticed the same sort of thing. )Stereotypical good guy and doormat, couldn't do enough for her, rarely put myself first, etc. Received nothing but her growing unhappiness with the situation, eventual divorce.
Repeat the same basic scenario with a string of unsuccessful relationships afterward, until I finally got myself together and started putting myself first - practically overnight change, string of happy girlfriends (each I eventually dumped them for my own reasons, have never been the dumpee since), much more enthusiastic and loyal than my exes, happy to be with me, respected my needs and wishes, etc.
I'd never go back.
If this is alien to you, then either you're naturally someone who puts himself first but doesn't notice he does so (I have friends like this), or you're lucky and found the rare woman who breaks the mould - or you're me a decade ago and in for a bad time in the future - I hope not
If you are "a bit" of a selfish prick (as in, putting yourself first in a reasonable manner) women tend to treat you better
No idea how it works but..... Venturist said:
El stovey said:
I certainly find your linking of willingness to share in a relationship to wealth and power and even self-worth as odd. Are you actually married? I find it unusual that many wives or partners would agree with you TBH.
I understand your viewpoint perfectly but can't see it leading to success in relationships myself. Fair enough if you've found a partner that agrees with it though.
I was married once (I'm better now I understand your viewpoint perfectly but can't see it leading to success in relationships myself. Fair enough if you've found a partner that agrees with it though.
)Stereotypical good guy and doormat, couldn't do enough for her, rarely put myself first, etc. Received nothing but her growing unhappiness with the situation, eventual divorce.
Repeat the same basic scenario with a string of unsuccessful relationships afterward, until I finally got myself together and started putting myself first - practically overnight change, string of happy girlfriends (each I eventually dumped them for my own reasons, have never been the dumpee since), much more enthusiastic and loyal than my exes, happy to be with me, respected my needs and wishes, etc.
I'd never go back.
If this is alien to you, then either you're naturally someone who puts himself first but doesn't notice he does so (I have friends like this), or you're lucky and found the rare woman who breaks the mould - or you're me a decade ago and in for a bad time in the future - I hope not
Sharing your wealth and having EQUALITY in a relationship is perfectly possible without being a doormat. My wife respects my needs and wishes and I do hers.
I've no idea why your marriage didn't work out but it doesn't mean others with a shared financial situation are in the position you were in at all.
Venturist said:
I was married once (I'm better now )
Stereotypical good guy and doormat, couldn't do enough for her, rarely put myself first, etc. Received nothing but her growing unhappiness with the situation, eventual divorce.
Repeat the same basic scenario with a string of unsuccessful relationships afterward, until I finally got myself together and started putting myself first - practically overnight change, string of happy girlfriends (each I eventually dumped them for my own reasons, have never been the dumpee since), much more enthusiastic and loyal than my exes, happy to be with me, respected my needs and wishes, etc.
I'd never go back.
If this is alien to you, then either you're naturally someone who puts himself first but doesn't notice he does so (I have friends like this), or you're lucky and found the rare woman who breaks the mould - or you're me a decade ago and in for a bad time in the future - I hope not
I had a small wager with myself after some of your posts that they were, at least in part, auto-biographical. )Stereotypical good guy and doormat, couldn't do enough for her, rarely put myself first, etc. Received nothing but her growing unhappiness with the situation, eventual divorce.
Repeat the same basic scenario with a string of unsuccessful relationships afterward, until I finally got myself together and started putting myself first - practically overnight change, string of happy girlfriends (each I eventually dumped them for my own reasons, have never been the dumpee since), much more enthusiastic and loyal than my exes, happy to be with me, respected my needs and wishes, etc.
I'd never go back.
If this is alien to you, then either you're naturally someone who puts himself first but doesn't notice he does so (I have friends like this), or you're lucky and found the rare woman who breaks the mould - or you're me a decade ago and in for a bad time in the future - I hope not
I agree that respect is massively important in a long term relationship.
Unfortunately, I get the sense (especially with the dumpee comment) that you've just switched sides in the "who doesn't respect the other battle" rather than actually moved on and realised that it must be mutual.
Personally if I was talking about marriage and my future wife started in with the pre-nup talk, I'd tell her to do one, and to be honest, if I said that to a future partner and she agreed, I'd be the one that was thinking of her as a bit of a doormat and lose respect.
El stovey said:
Right but I'm not talking about being a doormat. I wouldn't let someone walk over me or take the piss.
Sharing your wealth and having EQUALITY in a relationship is perfectly possible without being a doormat. My wife respects my needs and wishes and I do hers.
I've no idea why your marriage didn't work out but it doesn't mean others with a shared financial situation are in the position you were in at all.
I'm not only talking about money, it's just a handy proxy and what the thread was originally about. Sharing your wealth and having EQUALITY in a relationship is perfectly possible without being a doormat. My wife respects my needs and wishes and I do hers.
I've no idea why your marriage didn't work out but it doesn't mean others with a shared financial situation are in the position you were in at all.
It sounds like you are a chap who naturally prioritises himself without realising he does so, which I envy!
zippy3x said:
I had a small wager with myself after some of your posts that they were, at least in part, auto-biographical.
I agree that respect is massively important in a long term relationship.
Unfortunately, I get the sense (especially with the dumpee comment) that you've just switched sides in the "who doesn't respect the other battle" rather than actually moved on and realised that it must be mutual.
Personally if I was talking about marriage and my future wife started in with the pre-nup talk, I'd tell her to do one, and to be honest, if I said that to a future partner and she agreed, I'd be the one that was thinking of her as a bit of a doormat and lose respect.
You're mostly right; I don't date anyone I don't respect but I'm also 100% fine with being single nowadays and therefore take no sI agree that respect is massively important in a long term relationship.
Unfortunately, I get the sense (especially with the dumpee comment) that you've just switched sides in the "who doesn't respect the other battle" rather than actually moved on and realised that it must be mutual.
Personally if I was talking about marriage and my future wife started in with the pre-nup talk, I'd tell her to do one, and to be honest, if I said that to a future partner and she agreed, I'd be the one that was thinking of her as a bit of a doormat and lose respect.
t at all. Unfortunately I also find that relationships work far, far better (for them!) if they respect me to some degree MORE than I respect them. Tis just the way of things.
I agree with you on the prenup comment & that's why I think the only really successful scenario is if she raised it herself off her own back because she's keen to demonstrate that it's not a factor.
If someone has to ask, it was never going to work. As with many things!
Cold said:
There seems to be some cross purposes being discussed here. Some are extolling the virtues of a balanced? marriage whereas others are looking for equal fairness in divorce. The two subjects have little in common.
Well seeing as the latter of the two subjects is a fairy tale, it seems a moot point.I would sum it up like this. If you're not prepared to share all your worldly goods, don't get married.
Cold said:
There seems to be some cross purposes being discussed here. Some are extolling the virtues of a balanced? marriage whereas others are looking for equal fairness in divorce. The two subjects have little in common.
My view is that a balanced marriage will have equality in finance (plus healthy mutual respect) and so if there is then a divorce, an equality in division of assets. (Which is actually probably beyond your control anyway)To me, If you have a start point of trying to retain assets, it's unlikely you will have a balanced marriage as one person will always have 'the upper hand' as opposed to having equality and holding hands togetherness.
This is just my experience obviously and money is just one of the many aspects linked to equality and balance, tthere are aspects influencing the changing dynamic like mutual empathy, compromise, shared influence and descision making etc.
As above though. If you're not willing to share your stuff, don't get married.
El stovey said:
My view is that a balanced marriage will have equality in finance (plus healthy mutual respect) and so if there is then a divorce, an equality in division of assets. (Which is actually probably beyond your control anyway)
To me, If you have a start point of trying to retain assets, it's unlikely you will have a balanced marriage as one person will always have 'the upper hand' as opposed to having equality and holding hands togetherness.
This is just my experience obviously and money is just one of the many aspects linked to equality and balance, tthere are aspects influencing the changing dynamic like mutual empathy, compromise, shared influence and descision making etc.
As above though. If you're not willing to share your stuff, don't get married.
So would your advice to OP's friend be that if he wants to get married then he should assume that his £4m wealth will become shared equally with his wife on the day of his wedding? And that he should accept that as part and parcel of marriage? and so if there is then a divorce, an equality in division of assets. (Which is actually probably beyond your control anyway)To me, If you have a start point of trying to retain assets, it's unlikely you will have a balanced marriage as one person will always have 'the upper hand' as opposed to having equality and holding hands togetherness.
This is just my experience obviously and money is just one of the many aspects linked to equality and balance, tthere are aspects influencing the changing dynamic like mutual empathy, compromise, shared influence and descision making etc.
As above though. If you're not willing to share your stuff, don't get married.
Amateurish said:
So would your advice to OP's friend be that if he wants to get married then he should assume that his £4m wealth will become shared equally with his wife on the day of his wedding? And that he should accept that as part and parcel of marriage?
That looks to be exactly what he is saying 
zippy3x said:
Cold said:
There seems to be some cross purposes being discussed here. Some are extolling the virtues of a balanced? marriage whereas others are looking for equal fairness in divorce. The two subjects have little in common.
Well seeing as the latter of the two subjects is a fairy tale, it seems a moot point.I would sum it up like this. If you're not prepared to share all your worldly goods, don't get married.
Im not married nor will i ever be. I find it out of date and to have little relevance to modern life.
However, isn't the point of marriage to fully commit to each other, till death do us part, etc. If you gominto it thinking about protecting things then it isntbreally a true marriage after all. Its just a bitblike being boyfriend/girlfriend.
I wont get married as i feel times change, people change and i dont want to commit like that.
However, isn't the point of marriage to fully commit to each other, till death do us part, etc. If you gominto it thinking about protecting things then it isntbreally a true marriage after all. Its just a bitblike being boyfriend/girlfriend.
I wont get married as i feel times change, people change and i dont want to commit like that.
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