Does anyone believe supernatural rubbish?
Discussion
drainbrain said:
I'm aware you exhibit symptoms of a PD and I really don't want to trigger an outburst. But I was going to suggest that rather than quote a long post you delete its content and substitute the word 'stuff' or some such instead.
Saying things like that doesn't really strengthen your opinion you know. drainbrain said:
Nanook said:
This is quite the interpretation of the last 39 pages.
Doesn't really tie with what I've seen of the thread. There's a huge group of people that have had paranormal experiences, and a slightly smaller group of people that haven't, but believe them?
Where?!
I'm aware you exhibit symptoms of a PD and I really don't want to trigger an outburst. But I was going to suggest that rather than quote a long post you delete its content and substitute the word 'stuff' or some such instead. Doesn't really tie with what I've seen of the thread. There's a huge group of people that have had paranormal experiences, and a slightly smaller group of people that haven't, but believe them?
Where?!
g3org3y said:
drainbrain said:
Nanook said:
This is quite the interpretation of the last 39 pages.
Doesn't really tie with what I've seen of the thread. There's a huge group of people that have had paranormal experiences, and a slightly smaller group of people that haven't, but believe them?
Where?!
I'm aware you exhibit symptoms of a PD and I really don't want to trigger an outburst. But I was going to suggest that rather than quote a long post you delete its content and substitute the word 'stuff' or some such instead. Doesn't really tie with what I've seen of the thread. There's a huge group of people that have had paranormal experiences, and a slightly smaller group of people that haven't, but believe them?
Where?!
smn159 said:
Efbe said:
I take it you struggle reading. especially the part in which I called that bat-s
t crazy.
Which is funny, because you normally qualify any statements that you make with some fence sitting reference to your favourite theory of Orch-OR or some such.t crazy.Still, it's good that you're now stating unequivocally that you think that the whole speaking to the dead thing is bat-s
t crazy - we seem to be making some progress here.This thread has served pretty much solely to proev the arrogance of those that hide behind science as a belief, without a full understanding, an enquiring mind or an ability to see an argument from another person's perspective.
Then again it has mostly been filled with meaningless anecdotes, and even more arguments against these anecdotes.
The answer to the question is here:
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/03/26/o-we-of-littl...
Chebble said:
drainbrain said:
I'm aware you exhibit symptoms of a PD and I really don't want to trigger an outburst. But I was going to suggest that rather than quote a long post you delete its content and substitute the word 'stuff' or some such instead.
Saying things like that doesn't really strengthen your opinion you know. As to the first sentence I accept it expresses an opinion - one that I continue to hold - but also the genuine desire not to cause upset which if my opinion is right is probably extremely easy to cause. Unfortunately the reply to me evidences just how easy. I could go into this in some depth as could the clinical psychologist who commented on the subject's behaviours yesterday. I don't really want to, interesting tho' it is. But in a way you're right. Replying wasn't helpful and silence would have been better. Sometimes that exacerbates things too. The tricky bit about PDs is that you can never react satisfactorily other than by abject submission or at least full agreement. 'Humouring' is another way to put it. Which often isn't appropriate. And can also act as a positive reinforcement of highly aberrant behaviour.
Anyway ho-hum. Chatrooms can be a hotbed of psychological observation. Big part of their attraction to some.
p1stonhead said:
I like Group 3 - those that haven't experienced it because they don't believe in it. Perfect for most people with rational thinking IMO and fits perfectly with the programmes where say one group is told one thing about a place being haunted and another isn't etc.
Exactly. People tend not to start believing in ghosts after seeing one. Rather they start believing in ghosts and then they see one. drainbrain said:
Chebble said:
drainbrain said:
I'm aware you exhibit symptoms of a PD and I really don't want to trigger an outburst. But I was going to suggest that rather than quote a long post you delete its content and substitute the word 'stuff' or some such instead.
Saying things like that doesn't really strengthen your opinion you know. As to the first sentence I accept it expresses an opinion - one that I continue to hold - but also the genuine desire not to cause upset which if my opinion is right is probably extremely easy to cause. Unfortunately the reply to me evidences just how easy. I could go into this in some depth as could the clinical psychologist who commented on the subject's behaviours yesterday. I don't really want to, interesting tho' it is. But in a way you're right. Replying wasn't helpful and silence would have been better. Sometimes that exacerbates things too. The tricky bit about PDs is that you can never react satisfactorily other than by abject submission or at least full agreement. 'Humouring' is another way to put it. Which often isn't appropriate. And can also act as a positive reinforcement of highly aberrant behaviour.
Anyway ho-hum. Chatrooms can be a hotbed of psychological observation. Big part of their attraction to some.
Yours faithfully,
g3org3y
An actual doctor who went to actual medical school and deals with genuine PD cases on a weekly basis
HTH.
drainbrain said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
What about group 6. People who have experienced stuff that many in groups 1 & 2 would accredit to the supernatural but instead of doing that, they are convinced that there must be a rational explanation, even if they don't know what it is. Or in other words, people who realise that going from "I have no explanation for these events" to "these events must be supernatural" is a ridiculous position to adopt.
Yes indeed that is an omission. Can't but think it's a relatively small group, but certainly one that exists, and not one I intended to catch in Group 5. The type of person who sees the headless ghost standing at the foot of the bed woo-wooing and says "this is not a supernatural event and must have a rational explanation". I could possibly see the stubbornest of Group 4 in that category. g3org3y said:
I don't see any evidence of PD in Nanook's posts.
Yours faithfully,
g3org3y
An actual doctor who went to actual medical school and deals with genuine PD cases on a weekly basis
HTH.
"Such arrogance! Who do you think you are, relying on your so-called, knowledge, qualifications and experience??"Yours faithfully,
g3org3y
An actual doctor who went to actual medical school and deals with genuine PD cases on a weekly basis
HTH.
This is the post-truth society in action I suppose. Armchair experts diagnosing PD's and believing in ghosts whilst genuine experts like g3org3y are derided and ignored.
Efbe said:
And yet whilst I have given arguments for and against many of the different parts of this, referencing scientific theories, explanations why I think the way I do, you have provided absolutely no useful input to this thread whatsoever. well done.
This thread has served pretty much solely to proev the arrogance of those that hide behind science as a belief, without a full understanding, an enquiring mind or an ability to see an argument from another person's perspective.
Then again it has mostly been filled with meaningless anecdotes, and even more arguments against these anecdotes.
The answer to the question is here:
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/03/26/o-we-of-littl...
You've referenced Orch-OR a number of times. Can you explain to those of us without a full understanding of science what it says and why it supports your apparent belief in ghosts and the power of mediums?This thread has served pretty much solely to proev the arrogance of those that hide behind science as a belief, without a full understanding, an enquiring mind or an ability to see an argument from another person's perspective.
Then again it has mostly been filled with meaningless anecdotes, and even more arguments against these anecdotes.
The answer to the question is here:
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/03/26/o-we-of-littl...
g3org3y said:
I don't see any evidence of PD in Nanook's posts.
Yours faithfully,
g3org3y
An actual doctor who went to actual medical school and deals with genuine PD cases on a weekly basis
HTH.
A GP isn't exactly a clinical psychologist. Nonetheless as it's 40 years + since my student days I'll defer to your superior opinion especially as you seem to be knee deep in the subject. Yours faithfully,
g3org3y
An actual doctor who went to actual medical school and deals with genuine PD cases on a weekly basis
HTH.
Having presumably read the thread do you feel it would be better to ignore the Hyde side and respond positively to the Jekyll? Bear in mind that at the slightest indication of being thwarted the switch happens......
Maybe I'm just being over imaginative and exhibiting over aggressive responses towards total strangers for very little apparent reason is considered perfectly normal these days. A read thru the Daily Tabloid would indicate so.
But I don't want to set this guy off whatever his problem is. It's difficult, because he wants to continue to enjoin repartee with me. TBH I can't be bothered humouring him. Silence seems rude (and probably construed as offensive) Disagreeing on any level flips his switch.....
So whaddya do, doc?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Well that's me. If I saw a headless ghost at the foot of my bed, I'd be right down to A&E demanding they scan me for a brain tumour as I'd started having hallucinations. Which seems to me an entirely sensible reaction. After all, we have undeniable evidence for the existence or brain tumours.
So, rather than say "F Me!! I just saw a flaming'....GHOST! That supernatural stuff really IS real"!! instead you'd go to A&E. Sit around for hours. Come face to face with the reality of The System. Some tired and stressed out recent student swaying amongst the moaning groaning and often very ill behaved general public all demanding and shouting and demanding and complaining and she's on her hundredth hour that week and starting to see ghosts herself....and you rock up.... "Erm, I know this sounds a little strange, but I think I might have a brain tumour. I've just seen a ghost, and am so opposed to the idea that it might have been a commonplace supernatural experience that I demand a brain scan"
Well, put yourself in the doc's shoes. What does she do? She needs Security, quick, for the aggressive drunk in cubicle 9. The junkie in Cubicle 4 is trying to rifle thru the drugs cabinet. The brat with the skelf in cubicle 2 is howling like a traumatic amputee. There's an RTA on a stretcher just being rattled thru the door by ambulance staff......and there you are. You've seen a ghost. Her granny saw a ghost once. Still talks about it at every wedding and funeral. I mean who hasn't had a supernatural experience of one kind or another? But she's landed with a guy who thinks it's a sign he's got a flipping' brain tumour!
Scans cost a fortune. And Finance are patrolling the joint like the Gestapo. For a moment she wonders what they'd make of her report. "Patient admission with concerns of brain disease based on visual perception of a "ghost". Immediate referral to scan specialists . Neurosurgeon alerted".
Likely option? "Here mate, take this Ibuprofen and get some rest. If the "ghost" appears again, go and see your GP"
I mean he's as capable of referring you to psychiatric services as she is. And for all she knows that's where you've escaped from. And later on when she finally arrives home she can tell her boyfriend today's Odd Story From A&E.
Alternatively, you go private. And 2 grand (and a scan) later they tell you you're fine. Maybe the clinician's a spiritualist. Maybe he'll tell you to ask the ghost what it wants the next time it materialises.
Twig, it's only a flaming' ghost. Start worrying when it's all 4 of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse!
drainbrain said:
A GP isn't exactly a clinical psychologist. Nonetheless as it's 40 years + since my student days I'll defer to your superior opinion especially as you seem to be knee deep in the subject.
...
So whaddya do, doc?
I'd suggest stop trying to play the man. ...
So whaddya do, doc?
It's not necessary and I don't think it does anybody any favours.
drainbrain said:
Start worrying when it's all 4 of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse!
That I agree with 
Regarding going to the doctor if I saw a ghost - I'd do exactly the same if I really thought I'd seen one. I'd think I'd had an episode of some kind and would get checked out.
Every if every test known to man had come back with nothing, I still wouldn't believe I'd seen one.
A year ago in the middle of a meeting peoples faces started melting and swirling around and we're surrounded by halos. Freaked me the fk out. Went to the doctor of course. It was some sort of ocular migraine because of stress apparently.
Never did I even contemplate it was something paranormal or 'spooky'. The mind can do some crazy stuff.
Every if every test known to man had come back with nothing, I still wouldn't believe I'd seen one.
A year ago in the middle of a meeting peoples faces started melting and swirling around and we're surrounded by halos. Freaked me the f
k out. Went to the doctor of course. It was some sort of ocular migraine because of stress apparently. Never did I even contemplate it was something paranormal or 'spooky'. The mind can do some crazy stuff.
drainbrain said:
Twig, it's only a flaming' ghost. Start worrying when it's all 4 of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse!
There are no such things, ergo he's had a hallucination. Brain tumors are well known to cause hallucinations but you think it's better to write the experience off as having seen a "ghost" rather than get yourself checked out.If you started coughing up blood, would you attribute it to a demonic possession of your lungs, or would you go see a doctor?
Mr2Mike said:
There are no such things, ergo he's had a hallucination. Brain tumors are well known to cause hallucinations but you think it's better to write the experience off as having seen a "ghost" rather than get yourself checked out.
Mike: " Hi Doc!! I've just seen a ghost which was obviously a hallucination. So I've come to get checked out just in case I've got a brain tumour..."Professor Cook RC Psych: " O Hi Mike....just lie down on the couch for a minute...."
https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/ChrisCookHallucinati...
Oh dear!
ETA: Actually, modest bloke that he is, Chris Cook's full 'title' is:
Reverend Professor Christopher Charles Holland Cook, BSc MB BS MD MA PhD FRCPsych if that makes any difference to anyone.
Edited by drainbrain on Wednesday 17th May 22:21
smn159 said:
You've referenced Orch-OR a number of times. Can you explain to those of us without a full understanding of science what it says and why it supports your apparent belief in ghosts and the power of mediums?
of course.standard theory is that our brains are made up of neurons and synapses. Kind of like in a computer CPUs, the transistors and connections. (However in a brain the connections wire themselves) This mechanism of neurons and synapses works like a computer and makes the brain work.
However there has been a big issue with that. The Godelian argument discusses whether there is sufficient computational power in the brain for the processing it does, and the theory is that it doesn't. So there must be something else.
A couple of very well renowned scientists came up with the theory(Orch-OR) of quantum waves within microtubules in the brain which would account for this additional computing power.
It's not as daft as it first may seem. It is known and accepted that Quantum processes are involved in photosynthesis, eye sight, enzymes and many more processes.
Quantum mechanics is a huge and vastly complex subject of which we still have elementary knowledge. yet it seems to affect most things in life. Directly or indirectly.
Where it gets a bit more complex is how quantum particles can interact over great distances or be in two places at once.
This doesn't mean that Schrodingers cat could be inside and outside of the box, but particles in the cat could exist elsewhere at the same time. kind of.
We just don't know the full implications of this yet. Tests have been done to show that quantum processes do exist in the brain. When the microtubules are affected chemically, a coma can be induced. Additionally, this quantum activity continues for a short period after the brain itself has stopped. Life after death, albeit incredibly brief. But it does show how brain functions can be independent from the brain. In a way
More reading here:
https://www.quora.com/How-plausible-is-Penrose-and...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_biology
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/26/yo...
drainbrain said:
ETA: Actually, modest bloke that he is, Chris Cook's full 'title' is:
Reverend Professor Christopher Charles Holland Cook, BSc MB BS MD MA PhD FRCPsych if that makes any difference to anyone.
It sure does, he's clearly a bit gullible and should be treated with suitable caution. He also appears to have too much time on his hands.Reverend Professor Christopher Charles Holland Cook, BSc MB BS MD MA PhD FRCPsych if that makes any difference to anyone.
drainbrain said:
Come on. This isn't complicated.
This is the most accurate thing you've said. Sadly your version is along the lines of "I can't explain it therefor I see dead people"These threads always bring out a rather special class of lunatics.
poing said:
drainbrain said:
ETA: Actually, modest bloke that he is, Chris Cook's full 'title' is:
Reverend Professor Christopher Charles Holland Cook, BSc MB BS MD MA PhD FRCPsych if that makes any difference to anyone.
It sure does, he's clearly a bit gullible and should be treated with suitable caution. He also appears to have too much time on his hands.Reverend Professor Christopher Charles Holland Cook, BSc MB BS MD MA PhD FRCPsych if that makes any difference to anyone.
drainbrain said:
Come on. This isn't complicated.
This is the most accurate thing you've said. Sadly your version is along the lines of "I can't explain it therefor I see dead people"These threads always bring out a rather special class of lunatics.
Honestly, in the non existent world of supernature and the spirit Chris Cook, celebrated mind though he is, is but a dwarf (albeit a bit of a well academically qualified one). If you want to ramp up the stakes about a hundred times have a wander through some of the works of Confucius or Lao Tzu!! Now you're at the level where writings can transmit wisdom! But beware. If you're a thinker, those Chinese chaps can be life changing!
Please. PLEASE! Humour me. Please declare Confucius and L-T to be deluded/gullible /lunatics or something! Just post something to that effect! Pretty please!
"I can't explain it therefore I see dead people"!!! omigod. I'm going to pee myself!! O where's the 'holding your sides' smilie when you need it!!
Priceless!! An accidental wholly natural and most wonderful zen koan!! "I can't explain it, therefore I see dead people"!!
Edited by drainbrain on Wednesday 17th May 23:51
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