Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Exactly the same way you were stifled by old people when you were that age. "We have always done it that way" and " it has to work first time". And you know what, we made it through, and the good millennials do too. Just the crap ones our age didn't have Facebook 
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hstewie said:
hstewie said:anonymous said:
[redacted]
There are plenty who don't, but there's plenty of older people who don't care either and are just seeing out their last few years waiting until the optimal moment to pick up their pension.[b]Stifle? Simple, often they have good ideas but some of the older generation are scared s
tless of change, they can't or won't adapt and they don't like it.Not all of your generation are like that but it's certainly a thing and it definitely has "gone wrong for some" [/b]
I agree about the stifling in some cases, I've seen a few paranoid types (some of my colleagues in the past) and it didn't end well for them, they were basically useless
s who managed on fear and paranoia and made it all about themselves instead of the (potential) brilliance of the team.Given that there is nothing - I repeat NOTHING - more infuriating than the self-entitled, pompous, middle-class, middle-aged assholes that slowly and arrogantly meander around in Waitrose and in National Trust cafes, I can only hope that generational cultural divergence is a good thing.
Every generation is different from the last, perpetuating this attitude from the previous generation that the next is somehow wrong.
Just in my own work,
Out of dozens of people working directly for me, if I need something done well by someone I can trust, a 22 year old and 27 year old are the first two I speak to because the two of them are more reliable, enthusiastic, hard working and thorough than anyone else I have.
Then there's the lazy, 57 year old tt who wants to spend his life shirking work, being rude and asking for pay rises regardless who resents that he has seen several 20 and 30 something start in the job below him and quickly rise past him. But he blames them - he has spoken to me directly about this.
This guy seriously asked me for a private chat and complained that the productivity of two people we had recently hired made the rest of them look bad
Just in my own work,
Out of dozens of people working directly for me, if I need something done well by someone I can trust, a 22 year old and 27 year old are the first two I speak to because the two of them are more reliable, enthusiastic, hard working and thorough than anyone else I have.
Then there's the lazy, 57 year old t
t who wants to spend his life shirking work, being rude and asking for pay rises regardless who resents that he has seen several 20 and 30 something start in the job below him and quickly rise past him. But he blames them - he has spoken to me directly about this.This guy seriously asked me for a private chat and complained that the productivity of two people we had recently hired made the rest of them look bad
g3org3y said:
Socrates said:
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
No less true today than it was in their time
We had some interesting discussions at work about it. Millennials apparently much more likely to challenge the status quo.
there's also an increasing shift toward flexible working, previously employers insisted on 9-5 with an hour for lunch sort of thing, employers are now starting to offer 'as long as it gets done' packages, certainly we have a lot more home working.
The other day I got an email saying that a newish team member was 'taking a couple of hours for lunch because they were meeting a friend' .. can't ever imagine myself doing that in previous workplaces!
there's also an increasing shift toward flexible working, previously employers insisted on 9-5 with an hour for lunch sort of thing, employers are now starting to offer 'as long as it gets done' packages, certainly we have a lot more home working.
The other day I got an email saying that a newish team member was 'taking a couple of hours for lunch because they were meeting a friend' .. can't ever imagine myself doing that in previous workplaces!
spud989 said:
I actually want guidelines for this sort of thing. Generation X, Y, Z, millennials, etc. The vagueness it's bandied about with is just too much.
I'm 30, almost 31. Where do I fit in? I need to belong
Well the OP is the same age as my Dad and I'm Gen X, so most of OPs friends would of had to have had kids in their 40s for them to be Millennials. I'm 30, almost 31. Where do I fit in? I need to belong
I don't see the issue (to a degree) with young people with no ambition. After all, theres a lot of really boring and dull jobs that need doing and are filled by these people (agency work packing boxes, retail etc).
essayer said:
The other day I got an email saying that a newish team member was 'taking a couple of hours for lunch because they were meeting a friend' .. can't ever imagine myself doing that in previous workplaces!
New guy at my work, in his late 20s. In his 2nd day on the job, asked me if I could help him with something. I went over to his desk to explain and walk him through it. THREE TIMES during the next 15 minutes he stopped to text his mates on his mobile -Whilst I was sat with him - just turned away from me, picked up his phone and tapped away, grinned and giggled and then turned back again.I'd have fired him on the spot.
PBDirector said:
Given that there is nothing - I repeat NOTHING - more infuriating than the self-entitled, pompous, middle-class, middle-aged assholes that slowly and arrogantly meander around in Waitrose and in National Trust cafes, I can only hope that generational cultural divergence is a good thing.
Know in our household as "that" ageessayer said:
there's also an increasing shift toward flexible working, previously employers insisted on 9-5 with an hour for lunch sort of thing, employers are now starting to offer 'as long as it gets done' packages, certainly we have a lot more home working.
If the role lends itself to it I don't see the issue with that personally. Whenever these threads come up you can see there's often a split, and it's not always generational but I think does seem mostly where the older generation can be much more concerned with fixed working hours and presenteeism and needing to be seen to be working/in the office vs. focussing on "has the job I'm paying them for been done?" and if so who cares what time of day they did it.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:essayer said:
there's also an increasing shift toward flexible working, previously employers insisted on 9-5 with an hour for lunch sort of thing, employers are now starting to offer 'as long as it gets done' packages, certainly we have a lot more home working.
If the role lends itself to it I don't see the issue with that personally. Whenever these threads come up you can see there's often a split, and it's not always generational but I think does seem mostly where the older generation can be much more concerned with fixed working hours and presenteeism and needing to be seen to be working/in the office vs. focussing on "has the job I'm paying them for been done?" and if so who cares what time of day they did it.
wst said:
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
- Socrates (Well, that's who Plato attributed it to)
Children today...one quick google and they believe anything they find without checking the citation- Socrates (Well, that's who Plato attributed it to)
http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehavin...
Just as a flip side to all millennials being work shy tosspots, how about all those 40 plus people that are doing the same thing and have done for 20+ years now? Literally the same basic job day in day out which some people started in the 80's. They must have never even considered progressing within that whole time! It's almost as if they wait to get made redundant in some cases! I've seen countless CV's of people who have not worked for 10 years, some even 20 or 30 years. Others who have worked a few months of each year for the past 20 years because they couldn't hold down a proper job. Plenty of people who didn't work for over 10 years "addressing health challenges" sat at home on the dole but then by some miracle were cured.
My point is the same as others here. The older generations will always moan about the younger generations but the reality is that there are similar people to which they moan about in their own age group. I would bet that the generations aren't much different and that there are good and bad in all of them.
My point is the same as others here. The older generations will always moan about the younger generations but the reality is that there are similar people to which they moan about in their own age group. I would bet that the generations aren't much different and that there are good and bad in all of them.
ash73 said:
My experience working with millennials has been quite negative, I'm shocked they are out the door by 4:30pm when I was working late (until 9pm+) nearly every day at their age. I'm semi retired and just work part time as a consultant but I'm always the last person to leave, which doesn't feel right. Their attitude seems to be it's not in their contract to do that, whereas mine was get the job done and I'll be rewarded later.
Interesting, there is some research I've seen on the topic (from the US) but it shows the opposite trend.My view is that in many respects "Millennials" aren't that different from previous generations. However changing employment patterns mean that they are likely to have to switch careers more often and wait longer if they intend to work their way up within traditional corporate entities (people working to an older age etc.) which is why startups and fast growing companies likely get more than their fare share. Overall they are likely to adapt by assuming there is a lower level of employment stability (often negatively characterised as "job hopping") and so also be less willing to tolerate some of the staples of corporate life like poor management and positions that are effectively a dead end/trickle system for careers.
With the unemployment rate very low and demographic trends likely to reduce the number of people in the working age population this is likely to accelerate over the next few years. That said some competition in the Labour market wouldn't be the worst way to improve Britains terrible productivity growth. In many ways perhaps British business urgently need change anyway if they are going to be competitive in a more globally focused economy.
I took a guy on in his early 20s. He lasted 4 months and left to take a better job "much higher pay" etc etc which he promptly quit after 2 days.
IME they expect to be on £30k a year straight away and not repay any student debt at the same time. He was meant to replace me in 5-10 years time. Slowly take over and basically spend the first 2-3 years learning the ropes.
He liked the high life too, out on the town every weekend, nice rented flat, decent clothes etc. He asked me for a pay rise and said the reason was "well I cant be expected to sit in my flat every weekend can I?" WTF!! When I was his age that's pretty much exactly what we did, just we sat at home as we *knew* we could not afford our own place. I said I would think about it once he had been with us 6 months, and then he basically left the following week.
When I was an apprentice it was made very clear to us that the first 3 years would be tough, and the next 2 or 3 after that we would progress slowly. We accepted it and got our heads down.
These days they are entitled to skip the first 5-10 years of employment and jump straight to middle management. And every 21 year old seems to know someone who walked out of uni into a £100k a year job.
IME they expect to be on £30k a year straight away and not repay any student debt at the same time. He was meant to replace me in 5-10 years time. Slowly take over and basically spend the first 2-3 years learning the ropes.
He liked the high life too, out on the town every weekend, nice rented flat, decent clothes etc. He asked me for a pay rise and said the reason was "well I cant be expected to sit in my flat every weekend can I?" WTF!! When I was his age that's pretty much exactly what we did, just we sat at home as we *knew* we could not afford our own place. I said I would think about it once he had been with us 6 months, and then he basically left the following week.
When I was an apprentice it was made very clear to us that the first 3 years would be tough, and the next 2 or 3 after that we would progress slowly. We accepted it and got our heads down.
These days they are entitled to skip the first 5-10 years of employment and jump straight to middle management. And every 21 year old seems to know someone who walked out of uni into a £100k a year job.
Chozza said:
wst said:
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
- Socrates (Well, that's who Plato attributed it to)
Children today...one quick google and they believe anything they find without checking the citation- Socrates (Well, that's who Plato attributed it to)
http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehavin...
Trouble is, finding citations for these quotes is quite a task. There's one by Peter the Hermit in 1274 which is oft repeated, never challenged, or there's one by Aristotle, Hesiod in the 8th century BC apparently also had something to moan about the youth, but all of these have to be taken at face value when you're a youth quoting stuff to throw back at comments such as the OP, as you're typically caught up trying to do something useful with your life instead of moaning about it
It's alright, I moan about youth now. Bloody fidget spinners, shopkins, etc... but I also acknowledge that when I was a kid I played with glorified spinning tops (beyblades) and obsessively collected car park tickets. And my Dad obsessed about cricket to the point of playing virtual cricket in a notebook somehow. I'm sure his Dad did something stupid when he was <20 as well.
ash73 said:
My experience working with millennials has been quite negative, I'm shocked they are out the door by 4:30pm when I was working late (until 9pm+) nearly every day at their age. I'm semi retired and just work part time as a consultant but I'm always the last person to leave, which doesn't feel right. Their attitude seems to be it's not in their contract to do that, whereas mine was get the job done and I'll be rewarded later.
Maybe they're working from home?Maybe they've "got the job done" quicker than other people?
There could be all kinds of reasons they're gone @ 4.30pm.
I'm currently sat in my conservatory with a bottle of lager VPN'd in to work doing something that needs to be done which is why you won't often [i]see[/] me at my desk past 4pm - I don't need to be there.
A friends wife works in corporate HR, They have just been sent on a course to teach them to deal with millennials.
They are all so used to being the last winner and not having to accept the concept of losing etc that they simply can't cope in the real world. The concept of "your fired because you're useless" is one they cannot grasp. It's a genuine problem I'm afraid.
Obviously not all millennials will be like this, but clearly far too many of them are.
They are all so used to being the last winner and not having to accept the concept of losing etc that they simply can't cope in the real world. The concept of "your fired because you're useless" is one they cannot grasp. It's a genuine problem I'm afraid.
Obviously not all millennials will be like this, but clearly far too many of them are.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:ash73 said:
My experience working with millennials has been quite negative, I'm shocked they are out the door by 4:30pm when I was working late (until 9pm+) nearly every day at their age. I'm semi retired and just work part time as a consultant but I'm always the last person to leave, which doesn't feel right. Their attitude seems to be it's not in their contract to do that, whereas mine was get the job done and I'll be rewarded later.
Maybe they're working from home?Maybe they've "got the job done" quicker than other people?
There could be all kinds of reasons they're gone @ 4.30pm.
I'm currently sat in my conservatory with a bottle of lager VPN'd in to work doing something that needs to be done which is why you won't often [i]see[/] me at my desk past 4pm - I don't need to be there.
To caveat that - some people love their job, are keen to progress their careers and enjoy doing more than 40 hours per week. That's excellent but it doesn't mean those who work less are slacking in any way.
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