Millennials

[Kermit power]

generationx said:

A bit of a generalisation. The engineering company I work in has many in their early to mid twenties all of whom are intelligent high achievers. All are great company too.

Same for me in IT. I'm frequently glad I'm not competing directly with them!

[xjay1337]

Brigand said:

I've worked with IT apprenticeships for nearly two years now, mainly dealing with 17-22 year olds and have seen a fair mix of people throughout that time. In the main the guys and girls I see have been happy to start at the bottom and work their way up, and some have really relished the opportunities and go above and beyond what they need to do - those ones will go far. But there have been some who've met the "Millennial" criteria so often mentioned here. The ones who often turn up late to work or classes, baulk at having to do work that is a bit boring or complex, don't see why they have to do work that is outside of their job description, mope around the office not getting involved socially with anything going on because they only want to get home and go out with their mates - the list goes on.

I've got the feeling that some of the worst of above have felt they should be getting their first job with a high wage and straight in as some kind of middle management position, there is a feeling that they don't need to start at the bottom. Thankfully though this type of person, in my experience anyway, makes up a small portion of those I have to deal with, so there is hope out there!

Its the same with any.
Small proportions.

Millenial is just a term thrown around by older people to stereotype younger people.

[essayer]

ash73 said:

Tell that to these guys:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130100...

If they'd worked better in the first place they won't have needed to work 10 days on the bounce. Now they're probably shattered and unable to keep it up

[Kermit power]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That's one way of looking at it.

Another way of looking at it would be to say that if you're 60 now and your friends are of a similar age, then the kids of those who had them in their twenties are now presumably now in their early to mid thirties and have done the whole "flit around, don't take life seriously then settle down" thing, whereas the kids of those who had them in their late thirties are presumably still in their early twenties and slap bang in the middle of that phase?

I've been working for 23 years since I graduated. I've been with my current employer for ten years, the previous one for six and the one before that for three. In the four years prior to that, I went through four employers, before realising that there was more to life than going out on the lash and having fun!

If anything, I'd say the twenty-something's of today that I work with are infinitely more focused and hard-working than my generation ever was, because although our generation have, with hindsight, had it much harder than our parents', we weren't aware of it at the time, whereas the generation now very much are, so they know they have to get their noses to the grindstone quickly if they want to succeed.

[FredClogs]

I feel very sorry for those born post 9/11 - they've grown up in a very uncertain and difficult to understand world, I grew up in across the 70 and 80s and whilst it's true to say materially we had less and the cold war was always an impending risk of instability in general I think the world was much less twisted and a lot easier to understand.

Post the financial crises I can wholly understand why kids are suffering, zero wage growth, cost of living rises, a widening wealth gap and the prospect of being saddled with a mortgage sized debt before they've even begun working life is enough to paralyze anyone's optimism, certainly does mine no good.

Added to that they've got grandparents who have completely different social and cultural baselines, much more than ever before. For me the real problem in society is the ungracious, selfish and entitled way the boomers are behaving and flexing their political muscle of late, the generation who have basically lived off money mortgaged to their grand kids for the last 3 decades. It'll work through the system, time waits for no man, but I just hope some understanding can be found between the generations before things get to ugly.

[Sump]

bhstewie said:

Flip side is I work with some younger people who have some amazing enthusiasm and ideas but are totally stifled by people your age who can't change won't change and don't want to change.

This is very accurate.

[red_slr]

bhstewie said:

Hoink said:

I finish at 4pm but start at 7am. I'm first in the office every day. The only ones who grumble about my finishes are the late starters who roll in at 9:30am.

Ditto.

Interestingly there's a big push in business at the moment around work life balance. Many business are now actively trying to push back against staff working 10/12 hour days and not switching off (literally) when they leave.

I think they've realised dead staff and/or lawsuits aren't a good thing.

Which is fine in some industries however others where its very costly to bring in extra staff or be that flexible it can be very difficult. Smaller businesses are being expected to behave like big corporates and its just not possible. Well it is, but the price of services and goods from small businesses is going to sky rocket. Seasonal small businesses are even more effected as they have a shorter time window in which to make the profits.

The other part to this is its not about working long hours but showing the willingness and dedication to give your employer that reassurance that you are part of the team. I think charities have a big part to play in this as they have fixed incomes and often offer their staff very generous working schedules. This then seems to have filtered down slowly. These days businesses are often treated like door mats by their employees. They seem to have more rights than anyone.

[Steve_W]

vonuber said:

Funny all this talk about working longer hours to show you want to get ahead.
In the engineering multinational i work for there is very much a drive for 'you are employed for 7.5 hrs a day, make the most of that but go home'.
It's recognised that long hours is counter productive, and if you are doing them it's either underresourcing or more training required.
It's not uncommon to have a Director come around telling people to go home; or it noted those who are working long hours and an investigation to see why.

But then we are not British owned, so maybe that's it.

This reminds me of a German firm for whom I worked some years ago. If anyone was regularly working well into the evening the other employees' first assumption was that that person wasn't very good at their job, otherwise he'd have finished in the normal working day.

[-C-]

ash73 said:

I would never support anyone in a promotion review if I see them leaving regularly at 4pm, they should be looking for more work and responsibility, not leaving early. It's easy to establish who works remotely just by chatting to people about ongoing issues in the morning.

Why not? Clearly they are capable of doing their allocated work in the time given, just because you are the mug who will sit there until 9pm every night to fatten other peoples pockets - it could be argued you are the one who isn't competent enough.

I'm not a millennial , but i'm sure a sh*t not doing anything over & above my hours on a daily basis, unless there is a crisis.

They probably consider you the mug, wasting your life behind a desk 5 days a week.

There is more to life than work.

[FredClogs]

^^
I'm sorry to have to tell you but culturally things will get worse in this respect. The "gig" economy and zero hours contracts etc... are beneficial to large corporates and have been largely adopted in the UK, you can't blame the workforce for embracing market economics on one hand and then wish to embrace it yourself.

Your issue in failing to attract the correct staff and retain them is not the fault of the people in the market place, it's a property of the market place (assuming it's not a failure of your managment which it may well be).

Boomers looking to blame the young for every facet of the world THEY created is a sad irony.

[xjay1337]

-C- said:

ash73 said:

I would never support anyone in a promotion review if I see them leaving regularly at 4pm, they should be looking for more work and responsibility, not leaving early. It's easy to establish who works remotely just by chatting to people about ongoing issues in the morning.

Why not? Clearly they are capable of doing their allocated work in the time given, just because you are the mug who will sit there until 9pm every night to fatten other peoples pockets - it could be argued you are the one who isn't competent enough.

I'm not a millennial , but i'm sure a sh*t not doing anything over & above my hours on a daily basis, unless there is a crisis.

They probably consider you the mug, wasting your life behind a desk 5 days a week.

There is more to life than work.

Certainly agree with you c

[WindyMills]

I think I'm a millennial, born in the early 90's. My only massive gripe about the older generation is my 2% pension contribution, but hey ho.

After the recession, I did a period of just under 2 years whereby I did a nuts amount of hours, 80+/week. Coupled with convenience shopping, etc, it costed me more than the increment increase in pay. What made me reconsider was my (baby boomer) manager asking if I was 'loyal'...

[red_slr]

xjay1337 said:

-C- said:

ash73 said:

I would never support anyone in a promotion review if I see them leaving regularly at 4pm, they should be looking for more work and responsibility, not leaving early. It's easy to establish who works remotely just by chatting to people about ongoing issues in the morning.

Why not? Clearly they are capable of doing their allocated work in the time given, just because you are the mug who will sit there until 9pm every night to fatten other peoples pockets - it could be argued you are the one who isn't competent enough.

I'm not a millennial , but i'm sure a sh*t not doing anything over & above my hours on a daily basis, unless there is a crisis.

They probably consider you the mug, wasting your life behind a desk 5 days a week.

There is more to life than work.

Certainly agree with you c

Horses for courses though. Back when I worked for a blue chip I would often stay 10 ish hours per day. Not through not being able to do my job but because I liked to go into detail and also because I would often find issues along the way which I could either carry onto the next day or just sort out that day. I prefer to leave with a clean slate. They paid me a lot of money, an extra few hours was not an issue. I also found it much easier to do an hours work after 5pm, left alone it was basically 2x productivity.

When I first started at that place the management would make people bring sleeping bags in, we used to work till midnight and then get 4-5 hours sleep under our desks and then back to work again for 6am. Didn't last long but we had to get the work done by a set date. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. The bottom line is we all had a nice lifestyle because of that company. I am sure if they tried that today it would be in the Daily Mail within 20 minutes..

[bitchstewie]

Sump said:

bhstewie said:

Flip side is I work with some younger people who have some amazing enthusiasm and ideas but are totally stifled by people your age who can't change won't change and don't want to change.

This is very accurate.

"We've always done it this way" is the bane of my life at the moment

If you're doing it the right and best way I get that, but often it's a bit like some dude on a horse and cart watching someone in a car convincing themselves it'll never catch on.

[DuncB7]

ash73 said:

I would never support anyone in a promotion review if I see them leaving regularly at 4pm, they should be looking for more work and responsibility, not leaving early.

This is possibly the most backwards analysis I have heard on here.

Employee completes work within contracted hours, goes home to family life, doesn't get supported at promotion. All because they don't do 'free' overtime.

You are exactly the type of person that gets slated in the jobs and employment forum.

So thankful I work for an organisation nothing like yourself.

I'm out.

[joshcowin]

I was born 1991, so have experience with people 10year older and younger than me. The younger generation does not look in a good place, entitlement is the biggest issue.

[Brigand]

DuncB7 said:

ash73 said:

I would never support anyone in a promotion review if I see them leaving regularly at 4pm, they should be looking for more work and responsibility, not leaving early.

This is possibly the most backwards analysis I have heard on here.

Employee completes work within contracted hours, goes home to family life, doesn't get supported at promotion. All because they don't do 'free' overtime.

You are exactly the type of person that gets slated in the jobs and employment forum.

So thankful I work for an organisation nothing like yourself.

I'm out.

This attitude seems to be rife in British employment, and I'm sure it's elsewhere too. The attitude of those that come in early and stay late, doing unpaid overtime are "excellent employees", and those that clock in and out the minute their day starts / ends but get their work done anyway are "bad employees". I'm sure the OP would support those who do the extra hours, who wouldn't when they're working for you, for free!

It's one thing to "put the extra hours in" when something big crops up and you need all hands on deck, but it's quite another when you routinely expect employees to work over their allotted hours just for the sake of looking good, and the sooner employers lose this attitude of wanting more for nothing, and stop penalising the employees who get the job done each day but clock in and out on their contracted hours the better we'll all be.

[joshcowin]

In all seriousness the issue is with discipline, ask a secondary school teacher about discipline its a joke!!

Everyone has to have a label or an illness now, in most cases they are just naughty kids but there is no mechanism to discipline them. They have no respect for people who are older than them, and many adults don't seem to care.

Working long hours at a desk is irrelevant to the issue the issue is that younger people say 20 and younger have no idea of responsibility and hard work all they want is the social media fed lifestyle.

[Kermit power]

joshcowin said:

the issue is that younger people say 20 and younger have no idea of responsibility and hard work.

Could you name any period in the last century when people of 20 and younger have had an idea of responsibility and hard work, with the notable exceptions of 1917-18 and 1939-45?

[Rawwr]

The last company I worked for was a total dinosaur, to the point that I ended up travelling 75 miles to another office twice a week, not because the other office had particular resources or people I needed to be with, just because they wanted to see me at a desk. Yet when I tried to implement new ideas and technology -- often at zero cost -- that would massively improve things and save lots of money, they were dismissed because "we don't work that way" or "we've always done it this way". Working from home was a definite no-no and frowned upon enormously by senior management, even when I demonstrably achieved way more at home.

It was very frustrating because I actually liked my manager a lot but the working practices, the mish-mash of badly implemented technology and the unwillingness to embrace anything new drove me insane.

I left that place 2 years ago and since then have more than doubled my salary and work for a wonderfully progressive and modern company where we're free to do what we like. So long as the work gets done, they really don't mind what we do. It was a very refreshing change.