Any other expectant Dads?
Discussion
Working couples I know through work who have more than 1 kid, hire full time nanny or both grandparents helping daily. I think some also used to use partly au-pair and grandparents combo.
Any working parents with multiple kids who does not have these sort of support and can still survive, you have my full admiration. Go perhaps be in the rocket science business (if not already)
Any working parents with multiple kids who does not have these sort of support and can still survive, you have my full admiration. Go perhaps be in the rocket science business (if not already)
Tim Cognito said:
2
I know it's a relatively short space of time and when they are older it will be lovely for them to play together etc. Tough one.
Monday morning 8am view over a nice cuppa: it's every man's patriotic duty to have a minimum of three kids. Oh and how I love my child, wouldn't it be wonderful to have more.I know it's a relatively short space of time and when they are older it will be lovely for them to play together etc. Tough one.
Tuesday 4am view: I enjoy my life and don't want to prematurely end it, or, do I ? (after being woken for the 10th time with screaming like in some sort of Asian WW2 camp).
ooid said:
Working couples I know through work who have more than 1 kid, hire full time nanny or both grandparents helping daily. I think some also used to use partly au-pair and grandparents combo.
Any working parents with multiple kids who does not have these sort of support and can still survive, you have my full admiration. Go perhaps be in the rocket science business (if not already)
Raised an eyebrow reading that given that's where we're at, 1st is 2.5years, second is due any day now (week 39), and I work full time, wife works part-time (3 days), we get very little family support if at all, partly due to distance (they're either 45 mins away or 3 hours away). I am hoping for a smoother ride than last time, but aware nothing is guaranteed. The first 8 months felt like 8 years, and it was only around 18 months did it start to feel like there was some joy to be had from it all. I've finally had a full week of no interrupted sleep - just in time to give it all up again!Any working parents with multiple kids who does not have these sort of support and can still survive, you have my full admiration. Go perhaps be in the rocket science business (if not already)
ooid said:
Working couples I know through work who have more than 1 kid, hire full time nanny or both grandparents helping daily. I think some also used to use partly au-pair and grandparents combo.
Any working parents with multiple kids who does not have these sort of support and can still survive, you have my full admiration. Go perhaps be in the rocket science business (if not already)
It’s pretty tough I think unless one of the parents doesn’t really have a demanding/full time job, which is quite common with folk I know. Any working parents with multiple kids who does not have these sort of support and can still survive, you have my full admiration. Go perhaps be in the rocket science business (if not already)
I’m about to be back in town 3 days a week and the school we are sending our kid to is 20 mins in the car. Latest wrap care goes till 5. So basically we’re going to buy a house as close to the school as possible (difficult in itself as they own all the land around it for about half a mile).
I was googling whether there was a service that did the school run I could buy but seems rare. But beyond that it’s the circa 20 weeks a year holiday they get when most people only have 25 days! It’s mental.
we've got two (5 and 7) and we're done now. I've struggled a lot over the last 7 years to be honest... not just because of parenting, but that has been one of the largest parts. Parenting is never what you expect it to be, no matter what you expect it to be. The experience of being a Dad is incredibly mixed in my opinion, and there are plenty of elements to it that society is not really configured to assist with, because we're so focused on the mum. Sometimes it can feel like you're a means to an end... a cash machine... the bad guy who is the only one who enforces boundaries... guilty every day about working and not being present... trying so hard to have a career and not be like your own father, but failing. It feels like you get beaten with the modern man stick AND the traditional gender roles stick. Sometimes it feels like what I am really getting out of this.
All of that said, there are moments that make all of that melt away and be forgotten about even if just for a while.
Having kids is without a doubt one of the hardest things I've ever done.
All of that said, there are moments that make all of that melt away and be forgotten about even if just for a while.
Having kids is without a doubt one of the hardest things I've ever done.
Blown2CV said:
we've got two (5 and 7) and we're done now. I've struggled a lot over the last 7 years to be honest... not just because of parenting, but that has been one of the largest parts. Parenting is never what you expect it to be, no matter what you expect it to be. The experience of being a Dad is incredibly mixed in my opinion, and there are plenty of elements to it that society is not really configured to assist with, because we're so focused on the mum. Sometimes it can feel like you're a means to an end... a cash machine... the bad guy who is the only one who enforces boundaries... guilty every day about working and not being present... trying so hard to have a career and not be like your own father, but failing. It feels like you get beaten with the modern man stick AND the traditional gender roles stick. Sometimes it feels like what I am really getting out of this.
All of that said, there are moments that make all of that melt away and be forgotten about even if just for a while.
Having kids is without a doubt one of the hardest things I've ever done.
Really well said.All of that said, there are moments that make all of that melt away and be forgotten about even if just for a while.
Having kids is without a doubt one of the hardest things I've ever done.
In a similar vein I think modern gender roles (whilst I support) may make it harder for everyone in some respects. What I mean is that in the past the man went to work and the wife dealt with the kids/house. Both roles challenging but at least you could stay in one lane and focus on your bit.
Now both parents are working full time with careers AND are both expected to play equal roles in parenting. Spread thinly across two demanding spheres.
Now both parents are working full time with careers AND are both expected to play equal roles in parenting. Spread thinly across two demanding spheres.
It's difficult because in most industries we are now a lot closer to gender pay equality, but hardly any companies pay full maternity pay.
In the past a man would go out and earn a wage that covered the household and the mother stayed home and raised the children.
Now, more typically the man and woman earn roughly the same and pay the mortgage and household bills 50/50.
I can't understand how couples without substantial savings or a high earning male can afford to have children.
In the past a man would go out and earn a wage that covered the household and the mother stayed home and raised the children.
Now, more typically the man and woman earn roughly the same and pay the mortgage and household bills 50/50.
I can't understand how couples without substantial savings or a high earning male can afford to have children.
resolve10 said:
It's difficult because in most industries we are now a lot closer to gender pay equality, but hardly any companies pay full maternity pay.
In the past a man would go out and earn a wage that covered the household and the mother stayed home and raised the children.
Now, more typically the man and woman earn roughly the same and pay the mortgage and household bills 50/50.
I can't understand how couples without substantial savings or a high earning male can afford to have children.
Children are for the well paid or the poor in much of the prosperous parts of the UK. Get stuck between the two and life is pretty hard. In the past a man would go out and earn a wage that covered the household and the mother stayed home and raised the children.
Now, more typically the man and woman earn roughly the same and pay the mortgage and household bills 50/50.
I can't understand how couples without substantial savings or a high earning male can afford to have children.
In cheaper areas it’s still fairly straight forward I’d have thought.
Tim Cognito said:
In a similar vein I think modern gender roles (whilst I support) may make it harder for everyone in some respects. What I mean is that in the past the man went to work and the wife dealt with the kids/house. Both roles challenging but at least you could stay in one lane and focus on your bit.
Now both parents are working full time with careers AND are both expected to play equal roles in parenting. Spread thinly across two demanding spheres.
the difference is that women can choose their dial setting between career and family far more easily than men can. Men are expected to have both up to 11 at the same time, and get shot down for it being too much to cope with or for making any mistakes. Many men get their social enrichment from sports or boozing, of which they can all of a sudden no longer really undertake. Having kids makes men more isolated, but women more fulfilled. We can argue the toss as a society endlessly about fairness and equality, but biology dictates that the mum is the favoured parent in the vast majority of cases. Then, men can't even get the pay rises and promotions because the equality quotas mean many jobs are preferring women at the moment (first hand experience in my industry... i was even told i could not be hired because they need to hire more women to balance things out, despite this being an illegal admission). I feel the pay equality argument is a bit sickening as the reason women get paid less is men work their arses off to allow women to be stay at home parents for 10 years plus, then those same men get accused of bias and sexism later.... by those same women who had a man work his arse off to enable her to stay home. Who were ONLY able to do that because of a man. Now both parents are working full time with careers AND are both expected to play equal roles in parenting. Spread thinly across two demanding spheres.
Blown2CV said:
I feel the pay equality argument is a bit sickening as the reason women get paid less is men work their arses off to allow women to be stay at home parents for 10 years plus, then those same men get accused of bias and sexism later.... by those same women who had a man work his arse off to enable her to stay home. Who were ONLY able to do that because of a man.
A big reason for pay inequality is women being defacto parents and differences in maternity/paternity pay.30-40 is a crucial period in careers and it is also where many women have to take their foot off/work part time due to childcare. That is the period when men's pay accelerates away from women. Reverse roles and have men have to take a year off on mat pay and do school runs for 8 years and see what happens to the pay gap.
Blown2CV said:
Tim Cognito said:
In a similar vein I think modern gender roles (whilst I support) may make it harder for everyone in some respects. What I mean is that in the past the man went to work and the wife dealt with the kids/house. Both roles challenging but at least you could stay in one lane and focus on your bit.
Now both parents are working full time with careers AND are both expected to play equal roles in parenting. Spread thinly across two demanding spheres.
the difference is that women can choose their dial setting between career and family far more easily than men can. Men are expected to have both up to 11 at the same time, and get shot down for it being too much to cope with or for making any mistakes. Many men get their social enrichment from sports or boozing, of which they can all of a sudden no longer really undertake. Having kids makes men more isolated, but women more fulfilled. We can argue the toss as a society endlessly about fairness and equality, but biology dictates that the mum is the favoured parent in the vast majority of cases. Then, men can't even get the pay rises and promotions because the equality quotas mean many jobs are preferring women at the moment (first hand experience in my industry... i was even told i could not be hired because they need to hire more women to balance things out, despite this being an illegal admission). I feel the pay equality argument is a bit sickening as the reason women get paid less is men work their arses off to allow women to be stay at home parents for 10 years plus, then those same men get accused of bias and sexism later.... by those same women who had a man work his arse off to enable her to stay home. Who were ONLY able to do that because of a man. Now both parents are working full time with careers AND are both expected to play equal roles in parenting. Spread thinly across two demanding spheres.
i kind of don't want to go on about it as i don't want to scare the new and expecting parents and actually it's really lovely for me to hear stories of other people in this thread just embarking on this whole journey... but i would say at 47, right now for me is an all time low point. Maybe this is what they mean by mid-life crisis.
Blown2CV said:
i kind of don't want to go on about it as i don't want to scare the new and expecting parents and actually it's really lovely for me to hear stories of other people in this thread just embarking on this whole journey... but i would say at 47, right now for me is an all time low point. Maybe this is what they mean by mid-life crisis.
actually I am 46 Blown2CV said:
Blown2CV said:
i kind of don't want to go on about it as i don't want to scare the new and expecting parents and actually it's really lovely for me to hear stories of other people in this thread just embarking on this whole journey... but i would say at 47, right now for me is an all time low point. Maybe this is what they mean by mid-life crisis.
actually I am 46 The Moose said:
I'm sorry you feel that way (both low point and feeling a year older than you are!!). I hope things improve for you.
Ditto.Whilst comparison is dangerous, I look at my neighbours with their older kids (5/7 or 6/8) and see they have a very different existence, they can go places far away, they can head out on their bikes, they can leave the kids to run about in the garden. None of these are options when they're toddlers, probably one of the hardest parts is that life quickly reduces to work, childcare, poor quality sleep, and after a couple of years the occasional bit of 'me' time but that's often a compromise and always guilt-laden (here have the child/ren so I can go for a run for an hour).
I have noticed there's a big lack of families with young kids on social media - because they're just too busy keeping their heads above the water for stuff like that. I'm trying to wean myself off social media because seeing everyone having a great time whilst you know that almost all forms of 'fun' are either a distant memory or half a decade a way, can be quite depressing.
I didn't realise that 'becoming a parent' doesn't mean 'having children', it means 'your life now reduces to a narrow set of functions and stereotypes', where it's incredibly difficult to find a way to make your life your own. I hold on hope that in a few short years I can strap them into the car and drive them to Goodwood/Silverstone/Bicester etc. and maybe it'll start to feel like mine again.
RenesisEvo said:
Ditto.
Whilst comparison is dangerous, I look at my neighbours with their older kids (5/7 or 6/8) and see they have a very different existence, they can go places far away, they can head out on their bikes, they can leave the kids to run about in the garden. None of these are options when they're toddlers, probably one of the hardest parts is that life quickly reduces to work, childcare, poor quality sleep, and after a couple of years the occasional bit of 'me' time but that's often a compromise and always guilt-laden (here have the child/ren so I can go for a run for an hour).
I have noticed there's a big lack of families with young kids on social media - because they're just too busy keeping their heads above the water for stuff like that. I'm trying to wean myself off social media because seeing everyone having a great time whilst you know that almost all forms of 'fun' are either a distant memory or half a decade a way, can be quite depressing.
I didn't realise that 'becoming a parent' doesn't mean 'having children', it means 'your life now reduces to a narrow set of functions and stereotypes', where it's incredibly difficult to find a way to make your life your own. I hold on hope that in a few short years I can strap them into the car and drive them to Goodwood/Silverstone/Bicester etc. and maybe it'll start to feel like mine again.
Don’t wish it away. I have a 3 year old and at times it is difficult and I look forward to the things you have mentioned. At the same time, photos of her as a baby pop up on my phone and I just don’t know where the time went. I sometimes can’t remember her being a baby and I can’t remember the feeling I had when I cuddled her. Now she’s 3 and she’s becoming a little person. I have to remind myself that it won’t be long before she doesn’t want to snuggle up with me on the sofa or hold my hand as she toddles along. As difficult as things can be at times it will soon pass so enjoy the good stuff while you can. Whilst comparison is dangerous, I look at my neighbours with their older kids (5/7 or 6/8) and see they have a very different existence, they can go places far away, they can head out on their bikes, they can leave the kids to run about in the garden. None of these are options when they're toddlers, probably one of the hardest parts is that life quickly reduces to work, childcare, poor quality sleep, and after a couple of years the occasional bit of 'me' time but that's often a compromise and always guilt-laden (here have the child/ren so I can go for a run for an hour).
I have noticed there's a big lack of families with young kids on social media - because they're just too busy keeping their heads above the water for stuff like that. I'm trying to wean myself off social media because seeing everyone having a great time whilst you know that almost all forms of 'fun' are either a distant memory or half a decade a way, can be quite depressing.
I didn't realise that 'becoming a parent' doesn't mean 'having children', it means 'your life now reduces to a narrow set of functions and stereotypes', where it's incredibly difficult to find a way to make your life your own. I hold on hope that in a few short years I can strap them into the car and drive them to Goodwood/Silverstone/Bicester etc. and maybe it'll start to feel like mine again.
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