What's the best country in the world?

[C70R]

srebbe64 said:

Having traveled fairly extensively I'd shortlist it to the following:

New Zealand
Canada
Switzerland
Norway / Sweden
Australia

I would say that, in my opinion, The UK is up there too (top 10) but the USA is not.

Obviously this is entirely subjective, but I don't agree with 4 of your top 5.
New Zealand, only in some parts. Infrastructure is dreadful (bordering on non-first-world) and inequality is rife, but the coffee and people almost make up for it.
Switzerland, absolutely not. Bureaucracy and ridiculous rule-making ruin one of the most beautiful countries in the world. Also, unless you're earning $200k+, the lifestyle is not accessible.
Norway, no way. The taxation is utterly ridiculous, meaning that the average Joe is 'materially' poorer than in most other first-world countries.
Australia has two decent CBDs and some nice beaches - that's literally it. Massive racism, hilarious economy, minimal history/culture, chav infestation.

Having travelled pretty extensively myself (think I'm up to almost 50 countries in the past 20 years), I have a couple of (IMHO) thoughts:
1. The UK is definitely in the top 5, particularly for English-speakers. It's 'trendy' to knock the UK, but we don't have one of the world's most multicultural populations by accident.
2. Bits of the US are among the greatest places on earth if you have money/social-mobility - but 90% of it is an absolute cesspit.
3. Japan and South Korea are fantastic places to live (cultured, urbane, cohesive, diverse) provided that you can penetrate the language (Korean is surprisingly easy).
4. SE Asia is nice to visit and cheap to enjoy, but there's more to life than that.

Edited by C70R on Thursday 17th August 10:52

[Mr Roper]

Junior Bianno said:

Maybe I've missed it, but I'm amazed there have been 9 pages of posts and no mention of Portugal

Number 3 in the Global Peace Index
Low cost of living (for Europe)
Outrageous weather - in the Algarve you can go literally weeks without seeing a single cloud
Close to everywhere important
Great beaches, restaurants, cities
Amazing diversity from the hilly north, the wild west coast and the hot south
Friendly locals
Stable laws and government
You can buy really good wine for €2

Each to their own but I would take it every time over any of the cold, dark Northern European countries mentioned

This article sums it up quite well

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/portugal-trave...

My missus would move there in a heartbeat...She has multiple trips every year to Lisbon and Porto and it's often talked about as our retirement plan.

In fact we're off to Porto in December.

[GetCarter]

C70R said:

Norway, no way. The taxation is utterly ridiculous, meaning that the average Joe is 'materially' poorer than in most other first-world

....and yet the populous is the happiest in the world:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/norway-named-happiest...

"...on the basis of several key calculations for measuring social happiness, among them levels of caring, freedom to make life decisions, generosity, good governance, honesty, health and income".

[C70R]

GetCarter said:

C70R said:

Norway, no way. The taxation is utterly ridiculous, meaning that the average Joe is 'materially' poorer than in most other first-world

....and yet the populous is the happiest in the world:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/norway-named-happiest...

Absolutely - it's a socialist paradise (great healthcare, ubiquitous amenities, decent infrastructure), and always does very well in this 'happiest/best/easiest country' polls. However, Norwegians are also very poorly-travelled outside of Scandinavia, and don't really have any appreciation for the other side of the coin.

If you locked me in a room and kept me comfortable, entertained and well-fed, I'm sure I'd eventually become pretty content with it.

[GetCarter]

C70R said:

GetCarter said:

C70R said:

Norway, no way. The taxation is utterly ridiculous, meaning that the average Joe is 'materially' poorer than in most other first-world

....and yet the populous is the happiest in the world:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/norway-named-happiest...

Absolutely - it's a socialist paradise (great healthcare, ubiquitous amenities, decent infrastructure), and always does very well in this 'happiest/best/easiest country' polls. However, Norwegians are also very poorly-travelled outside of Scandinavia, and don't really have any appreciation for the other side of the coin.

If you locked me in a room and kept me comfortable, entertained and well-fed, I'm sure I'd eventually become pretty content with it.

Tut.

Lots of very, very nice cars and yachts - hardly a shed of a car to be seen, great housing and an airport full of Norwegians travelling abroad. (I was there in May and have worked there in the past).

I think you need to update your knowledge/ideas... it is not as you think.

[C70R]

GetCarter said:

C70R said:

GetCarter said:

C70R said:

Norway, no way. The taxation is utterly ridiculous, meaning that the average Joe is 'materially' poorer than in most other first-world

....and yet the populous is the happiest in the world:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/norway-named-happiest...

Absolutely - it's a socialist paradise (great healthcare, ubiquitous amenities, decent infrastructure), and always does very well in this 'happiest/best/easiest country' polls. However, Norwegians are also very poorly-travelled outside of Scandinavia, and don't really have any appreciation for the other side of the coin.

If you locked me in a room and kept me comfortable, entertained and well-fed, I'm sure I'd eventually become pretty content with it.

Tut.

Lots of very, very nice cars and yachts - hardly a shed of a car to be seen, great housing and an airport full of Norwegians travelling abroad. (I was there in May and have worked there in the past).

I think you need to update your knowledge/ideas... it is not as you think.

I've been a few times, and as recently as 9mths ago. It's a lovely country, for sure - but nowhere close to being talked about as one of the world's best, IMHO.
What you observed at the airport might well have been the case, but traditionally (and up until recent years) Norwegians were very poorly-travelled and incredibly introspective as a nation (classic socialist traits!). The average Norwegian's world view/experience is minuscule compared with that of the average Western European.

[djc206]

GetCarter said:

Tut.

Lots of very, very nice cars and yachts - hardly a shed of a car to be seen, great housing and an airport full of Norwegians travelling abroad. (I was there in May and have worked there in the past).

I think you need to update your knowledge/ideas... it is not as you think.

They do travel a lot (generous leave allowances and lots of money) but they're big bucket and spade fans, the Canary Islands seem to be a big favourite. Not truly well travelled just well rested and tanned!

[C70R]

djc206 said:

GetCarter said:

Tut.

Lots of very, very nice cars and yachts - hardly a shed of a car to be seen, great housing and an airport full of Norwegians travelling abroad. (I was there in May and have worked there in the past).

I think you need to update your knowledge/ideas... it is not as you think.

They do travel a lot (generous leave allowances and lots of money) but they're big bucket and spade fans, the Canary Islands seem to be a big favourite. Not truly well travelled just well rested and tanned!

Salaries might be pretty good, but the cost of living relative to elsewhere in the world is ludicrous - so they definitely don't all have "lots of money".
Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't dislike the place - but it's missing so much to be considered close to 'best' (and happiest populous isn't a reliable proxy).

[Colonial]

C70R said:

Salaries might be pretty good, but the cost of living relative to elsewhere in the world is ludicrous - so they definitely don't all have "lots of money".
Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't dislike the place - but it's missing so much to be considered close to 'best' (and happiest populous isn't a reliable proxy).

So having content and happy inhabitants isn't a reliable proxy?

What would you accept?

[djc206]

C70R said:

Salaries might be pretty good, but the cost of living relative to elsewhere in the world is ludicrous - so they definitely don't all have "lots of money".
Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't dislike the place - but it's missing so much to be considered close to 'best' (and happiest populous isn't a reliable proxy).

They do when traveling abroad as their money goes so much further. If you're used to £10+ for a pint being able to get 5 for the price of 1 in the Canary Islands makes going there cheaper than staying at home!

[C70R]

Colonial said:

C70R said:

Salaries might be pretty good, but the cost of living relative to elsewhere in the world is ludicrous - so they definitely don't all have "lots of money".
Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't dislike the place - but it's missing so much to be considered close to 'best' (and happiest populous isn't a reliable proxy).

So having content and happy inhabitants isn't a reliable proxy?

What would you accept?

There are a million other important things - and as with much of life, it's a balance.
While it's a lovely place, there are three things that Norway isn't close to being the 'best' for:

• Ethnic diversity
• Great climate
• Purchasing power

[C70R]

djc206 said:

C70R said:

Salaries might be pretty good, but the cost of living relative to elsewhere in the world is ludicrous - so they definitely don't all have "lots of money".
Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't dislike the place - but it's missing so much to be considered close to 'best' (and happiest populous isn't a reliable proxy).

They do when traveling abroad as their money goes so much further. If you're used to £10+ for a pint being able to get 5 for the price of 1 in the Canary Islands makes going there cheaper than staying at home!

That I can't argue with - but my point is, when the cost of being a consumer at home is so high, the high post-tax salaries they enjoy are largely meaningless (hence the point about Purchasing Power).
I remember laughing at paying >£100 for a round of 7 beers in a fairly ordinary Oslo bar last year! By the end of the evening, nobody was laughing...

[Colonial]

C70R said:

There are a million other important things - and as with much of life, it's a balance.
While it's a lovely place, there are three things that Norway isn't close to being the 'best' for:

• Ethnic diversity
• Great climate
• Purchasing power

So it's not the best for you (although purchasing power is a very weird item for a top 3 list). But to discard numerous surveys and quality of life reports as being irrelevant is just...odd.

The weather knocks it out of my personal list. Doesn't mean it's not a great place to live.

[C70R]

Colonial said:

C70R said:

There are a million other important things - and as with much of life, it's a balance.
While it's a lovely place, there are three things that Norway isn't close to being the 'best' for:

• Ethnic diversity
• Great climate
• Purchasing power

So it's not the best for you (although purchasing power is a very weird item for a top 3 list). But to discard numerous surveys and quality of life reports as being irrelevant is just...odd.

The weather knocks it out of my personal list. Doesn't mean it's not a great place to live.

You're trying too hard to deconstruct my opinion. Disagree with it, that's fine - but it's a fatuous to try and prove it wrong. I've never said "it's not a great place to live" - in fact, I've praised it plenty.

Purchasing Power is very important. A high GDP/capita or post-tax income (as in this case) can mask a modest quality of life, as a result of relatively low PP (caused by high product/service taxation) in this case.
Norway is clearly doing plenty right to make its people happy, but ask yourself why it doesn't attract huge numbers of expats who are desperate to experience this utopia in the same way that other (IMHO, better all-round) countries do?

[rodericb]

C70R said:

There are a million other important things - and as with much of life, it's a balance.
While it's a lovely place, there are three things that Norway isn't close to being the 'best' for:

• Ethnic diversity
• Great climate
• Purchasing power

I'm curious as to why you think a large ethnic diversity is good? Wouldn't the 'native' population be a major part in why the place is what it is? Once the world is one great grey soup of people then a country is a country is a country yeah?

[NordicCrankShaft]

C70R said:

Obviously this is entirely subjective, but I don't agree with 4 of your top 5.
New Zealand, only in some parts. Infrastructure is dreadful (bordering on non-first-world) and inequality is rife, but the coffee and people almost make up for it.
Switzerland, absolutely not. Bureaucracy and ridiculous rule-making ruin one of the most beautiful countries in the world. Also, unless you're earning $200k+, the lifestyle is not accessible.
Norway, no way. The taxation is utterly ridiculous, meaning that the average Joe is 'materially' poorer than in most other first-world countries.
Australia has two decent CBDs and some nice beaches - that's literally it. Massive racism, hilarious economy, minimal history/culture, chav infestation.

Having travelled pretty extensively myself (think I'm up to almost 50 countries in the past 20 years), I have a couple of (IMHO) thoughts:
1. The UK is definitely in the top 5, particularly for English-speakers. It's 'trendy' to knock the UK, but we don't have one of the world's most multicultural populations by accident.
2. Bits of the US are among the greatest places on earth if you have money/social-mobility - but 90% of it is an absolute cesspit.
3. Japan and South Korea are fantastic places to live (cultured, urbane, cohesive, diverse) provided that you can penetrate the language (Korean is surprisingly easy).
4. SE Asia is nice to visit and cheap to enjoy, but there's more to life than that.

Edited by C70R on Thursday 17th August 10:52

Not sure if you know much about the tax laws in Norway or have any experience with them but they really aren't as bad as you make out.

Our Holiday pay is based on 10.2% of our previous years salary which we don't pay tax on, so in July we get a tax free lump of cash, then Novembers salary that is payed in December is taxed at half the rate so that people have extra cash for the Christmas holidays. My normal tax rate on my salary is 36% and the reason it's that high is that they make up for the loss of tax during July and December, so it levels out, add to that I get payed easily £40k a year more than I would in the UK.

There's also various tax breaks for young people between 18-34 saving for their first home, a BSU Konto you pay in the maximum amount of 25,000kr a year (around £2,300) and then the government gives you 5,000kr every year as long as you put int he maximum amount otherwise it's scaled down.

Also I've yet to meet a person that is "materially" poorer as you put it. I'm much better off here than I ever would be back home in the UK, especially in terms of how much I earn and how much free time I get to spend doing other stuff that's more important. I work a 37.5 hour week, not sure I work that little hours in the UK once.

[C70R]

rodericb said:

C70R said:

There are a million other important things - and as with much of life, it's a balance.
While it's a lovely place, there are three things that Norway isn't close to being the 'best' for:

• Ethnic diversity
• Great climate
• Purchasing power

I'm curious as to why you think a large ethnic diversity is good? Wouldn't the 'native' population be a major part in why the place is what it is? Once the world is one great grey soup of people then a country is a country is a country yeah?

Ethnic diversity suggests:

• The country has broad appeal, not just a place that works well for a small culture/race/population
• The country (and its people) is open to other people and their cultures

Ethnic diversity brings a multitude of benefits, and it's no coincidence that some of the world's most incredible cities are also its most ethnically diverse.

[C70R]

NordicCrankShaft said:

C70R said:

Obviously this is entirely subjective, but I don't agree with 4 of your top 5.
New Zealand, only in some parts. Infrastructure is dreadful (bordering on non-first-world) and inequality is rife, but the coffee and people almost make up for it.
Switzerland, absolutely not. Bureaucracy and ridiculous rule-making ruin one of the most beautiful countries in the world. Also, unless you're earning $200k+, the lifestyle is not accessible.
Norway, no way. The taxation is utterly ridiculous, meaning that the average Joe is 'materially' poorer than in most other first-world countries.
Australia has two decent CBDs and some nice beaches - that's literally it. Massive racism, hilarious economy, minimal history/culture, chav infestation.

Having travelled pretty extensively myself (think I'm up to almost 50 countries in the past 20 years), I have a couple of (IMHO) thoughts:
1. The UK is definitely in the top 5, particularly for English-speakers. It's 'trendy' to knock the UK, but we don't have one of the world's most multicultural populations by accident.
2. Bits of the US are among the greatest places on earth if you have money/social-mobility - but 90% of it is an absolute cesspit.
3. Japan and South Korea are fantastic places to live (cultured, urbane, cohesive, diverse) provided that you can penetrate the language (Korean is surprisingly easy).
4. SE Asia is nice to visit and cheap to enjoy, but there's more to life than that.

Edited by C70R on Thursday 17th August 10:52

Not sure if you know much about the tax laws in Norway or have any experience with them but they really aren't as bad as you make out.

Our Holiday pay is based on 10.2% of our previous years salary which we don't pay tax on, so in July we get a tax free lump of cash, then Novembers salary that is payed in December is taxed at half the rate so that people have extra cash for the Christmas holidays. My normal tax rate on my salary is 36% and the reason it's that high is that they make up for the loss of tax during July and December, so it levels out, add to that I get payed easily £40k a year more than I would in the UK.

There's also various tax breaks for young people between 18-34 saving for their first home, a BSU Konto you pay in the maximum amount of 25,000kr a year (around £2,300) and then the government gives you 5,000kr every year as long as you put int he maximum amount otherwise it's scaled down.

Also I've yet to meet a person that is "materially" poorer as you put it. I'm much better off here than I ever would be back home in the UK, especially in terms of how much I earn and how much free time I get to spend doing other stuff that's more important. I work a 37.5 hour week, not sure I work that little hours in the UK once.

Totally hear you on the working hours/free time point. Irrefutably better than most places in the world.

As I mentioned previously, I'm not really talking about income/holiday tax - it's more the taxation of EVERYTHING else, to the point that high salaries/take-home is largely irrelevant. And is't the reason why Norway performs relatively poorly for Purchasing Power (post-tax salary relative to affordability of goods).

[Brave Fart]

Interesting stuff, not least for the nations that are NOT mentioned - by anybody. So, the entire continent of Africa (was there one mention of South Africa? perhaps one....). Also India/Pakistan/Sri Lanka/Bangladesh. What, no-one would live anywhere in Africa or India, really? (I wouldn't, I might add).

Also, no-one would live in Ireland? Even with their legendary "craic"?

[durbster]

C70R said:

Australia has two decent CBDs and some nice beaches - that's literally it. Massive racism, hilarious economy, minimal history/culture, chav infestation.

I think this is a bit harsh.

CBDs - meh. Cities are pretty boring once you've seen the sights.

Some nice beaches? Thousands of miles of some of the best beaches in the world.

It also has magnificent and varied scenery, the outback and cane-toad racing. It's a country that has a decent infrastructure but with endless opportunity for adventure. That's pretty rare.

As for Australia's lack of history? 40,000+ years not enough for you?