Primary school maths
Discussion
mjb1 said:
caelite said:
f
k. I'll need to remember that when I am next sitting in my thermofluids class, nah these equations of heat transfer & fluid motion are pants, I really should have been studying dodgy number triangles this whole time. I have well and truly failed at life... and possibly sudoku. 
The point I was making was that, in my eyes, much of the 'raw' maths concepts they teach you in school, aren't very good for the majority of students, there where always be the 2 or 3 students to a class whos brains are just wired the same way as the courses creators who will just 'get it'. But I would say that the majority of the concepts they teach kids don't truly 'learn' until they see real life application and in class will only absorb enough to scrape a pass at the class then forget everything after that. Of course for basic adding, subtracting, dividing, multiplying etc day to day life mandates full understanding of these concepts, so most people take it on, however for more advanced, seldom used, concepts, I would say school only gives a basic insight into, and that nobody truly learns the concepts until they see its application, for instance integration, differentiation and other elements of calculus have so many scientific applications, yet all you get taught of it at your GSCE to A level maths is what it looks like on a graph.
So with that being said, in my mind the best thing we could do for mathematical teaching is introduce kids to real life application as early as possible and teach from there, physics, biology, chemistry & engineering all make extensive use of mathematical concepts taught in early school years, however the current methods of teaching seem to want to teach kids the concepts, without ever introducing them to the science that mandates them until much later on. I think the best way forward would be to introduce kids to science early, and teach them the concepts within their real life applications, rather than trying to make up extremely convoluted question systems in order to 'force' understanding.
You seem to be contradicting yourself there - these questions are the perfect examples of applying the (basic) maths to solve the problems. Exactly what you say they should be teaching kids. And that's what engineering is basically - solving problems, using the science.k. I'll need to remember that when I am next sitting in my thermofluids class, nah these equations of heat transfer & fluid motion are pants, I really should have been studying dodgy number triangles this whole time. I have well and truly failed at life... and possibly sudoku. The point I was making was that, in my eyes, much of the 'raw' maths concepts they teach you in school, aren't very good for the majority of students, there where always be the 2 or 3 students to a class whos brains are just wired the same way as the courses creators who will just 'get it'. But I would say that the majority of the concepts they teach kids don't truly 'learn' until they see real life application and in class will only absorb enough to scrape a pass at the class then forget everything after that. Of course for basic adding, subtracting, dividing, multiplying etc day to day life mandates full understanding of these concepts, so most people take it on, however for more advanced, seldom used, concepts, I would say school only gives a basic insight into, and that nobody truly learns the concepts until they see its application, for instance integration, differentiation and other elements of calculus have so many scientific applications, yet all you get taught of it at your GSCE to A level maths is what it looks like on a graph.
So with that being said, in my mind the best thing we could do for mathematical teaching is introduce kids to real life application as early as possible and teach from there, physics, biology, chemistry & engineering all make extensive use of mathematical concepts taught in early school years, however the current methods of teaching seem to want to teach kids the concepts, without ever introducing them to the science that mandates them until much later on. I think the best way forward would be to introduce kids to science early, and teach them the concepts within their real life applications, rather than trying to make up extremely convoluted question systems in order to 'force' understanding.
What university are you studying at anyway?
I don't know how much you know about modern primary maths (no offence) but my children (primary age) learn Maths in a FAR more contextual way than I ever did.
(They could do the questions too....)
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/21/12/436F5...
On the bag of sweets question, I really do worry that any sort of logical mind (which by definition, Engineers generally are) got to the answer by trial and error and a calculator? I think that is what was suggested?
Surely these puzzles are simply a 'real world' example of where algebra really can simplify things? Many people cant even get the basics on algebra - an especially bright and sharp witted girl at work says "letter in sums - that is just wrong!"
I hate to admit, I have reasonably often resorted to basic algebra (although not differentiation/calculus I will admit) to work out answers and solutions.to stuff. Annoyingly cannot now think of one but it does help!!
Trial and error?
On a lighter note, I think I get the point that the engineer was trying to make - but does anybody here really think his statements are credible if these simple puzzles baffled him?
My real concern is that without the basics and tried and very tested simpler logic in Maths, we are in danger of chasing ourselves up our own backsides.... (as an aside, Dbl Maths, Physics and Chem which led to a rather decent Uni.)
There were times in Further Maths that I was completely baffled. Further Maths - both Pure and Applied wasn't it? How one of my class 'got' all the pure maths stuff, I will never understand - maybe that is no different from our resident Engineer? Having said that, the chap I am thinking of did go on to Trinity to do Natural Sciences....
Too many people seem happy to almost feel pride in their inability to get the basics - the girl mentioned above wasn't proud of it but she was very funny when quizzed. She wasn't forgiven just for being really pretty - honest!
Back to the Engineer chap (cant remember his log in/name) - I really am being honest here but really? Or were your comments at all tongue in cheek to get a response?
On the bag of sweets question, I really do worry that any sort of logical mind (which by definition, Engineers generally are) got to the answer by trial and error and a calculator? I think that is what was suggested?
Surely these puzzles are simply a 'real world' example of where algebra really can simplify things? Many people cant even get the basics on algebra - an especially bright and sharp witted girl at work says "letter in sums - that is just wrong!"
I hate to admit, I have reasonably often resorted to basic algebra (although not differentiation/calculus I will admit) to work out answers and solutions.to stuff. Annoyingly cannot now think of one but it does help!!
Trial and error?
On a lighter note, I think I get the point that the engineer was trying to make - but does anybody here really think his statements are credible if these simple puzzles baffled him?
My real concern is that without the basics and tried and very tested simpler logic in Maths, we are in danger of chasing ourselves up our own backsides.... (as an aside, Dbl Maths, Physics and Chem which led to a rather decent Uni.)
There were times in Further Maths that I was completely baffled. Further Maths - both Pure and Applied wasn't it? How one of my class 'got' all the pure maths stuff, I will never understand - maybe that is no different from our resident Engineer? Having said that, the chap I am thinking of did go on to Trinity to do Natural Sciences....
Too many people seem happy to almost feel pride in their inability to get the basics - the girl mentioned above wasn't proud of it but she was very funny when quizzed. She wasn't forgiven just for being really pretty - honest!
Back to the Engineer chap (cant remember his log in/name) - I really am being honest here but really? Or were your comments at all tongue in cheek to get a response?
caelite said:
fk. I'll need to remember that when I am next sitting in my thermofluids class, nah these equations of heat transfer & fluid motion are pants, I really should have been studying dodgy number triangles this whole time. I have well and truly failed at life... and possibly sudoku.
How can you possibly struggle with the most basic primary school algebra, but manage fine with the advanced maths in e.g. Fluid Dynamics? This is like the chef in a 3 star restaurant being stumped when asked for beans on toast.k. I'll need to remember that when I am next sitting in my thermofluids class, nah these equations of heat transfer & fluid motion are pants, I really should have been studying dodgy number triangles this whole time. I have well and truly failed at life... and possibly sudoku. Mr2Mike said:
How can you possibly struggle with the most basic primary school algebra, but manage fine with the advanced maths in e.g. Fluid Dynamics? This is like the chef in a 3 star restaurant being stumped when asked for beans on toast.
Perhaps the difference between being able to follow the most complicated recipe, and being able to come up with something from what happens to be in the fridge.Slaav said:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/21/12/436F5...
On the bag of sweets question, I really do worry that any sort of logical mind (which by definition, Engineers generally are) got to the answer by trial and error and a calculator? I think that is what was suggested?
Surely these puzzles are simply a 'real world' example of where algebra really can simplify things? Many people cant even get the basics on algebra - an especially bright and sharp witted girl at work says "letter in sums - that is just wrong!"
I hate to admit, I have reasonably often resorted to basic algebra (although not differentiation/calculus I will admit) to work out answers and solutions.to stuff. Annoyingly cannot now think of one but it does help!!
Trial and error?
On a lighter note, I think I get the point that the engineer was trying to make - but does anybody here really think his statements are credible if these simple puzzles baffled him?
My real concern is that without the basics and tried and very tested simpler logic in Maths, we are in danger of chasing ourselves up our own backsides.... (as an aside, Dbl Maths, Physics and Chem which led to a rather decent Uni.)
There were times in Further Maths that I was completely baffled. Further Maths - both Pure and Applied wasn't it? How one of my class 'got' all the pure maths stuff, I will never understand - maybe that is no different from our resident Engineer? Having said that, the chap I am thinking of did go on to Trinity to do Natural Sciences....
Too many people seem happy to almost feel pride in their inability to get the basics - the girl mentioned above wasn't proud of it but she was very funny when quizzed. She wasn't forgiven just for being really pretty - honest!
Back to the Engineer chap (cant remember his log in/name) - I really am being honest here but really? Or were your comments at all tongue in cheek to get a response?
It's not trial and error, it's successive approximation On the bag of sweets question, I really do worry that any sort of logical mind (which by definition, Engineers generally are) got to the answer by trial and error and a calculator? I think that is what was suggested?
Surely these puzzles are simply a 'real world' example of where algebra really can simplify things? Many people cant even get the basics on algebra - an especially bright and sharp witted girl at work says "letter in sums - that is just wrong!"
I hate to admit, I have reasonably often resorted to basic algebra (although not differentiation/calculus I will admit) to work out answers and solutions.to stuff. Annoyingly cannot now think of one but it does help!!
Trial and error?
On a lighter note, I think I get the point that the engineer was trying to make - but does anybody here really think his statements are credible if these simple puzzles baffled him?
My real concern is that without the basics and tried and very tested simpler logic in Maths, we are in danger of chasing ourselves up our own backsides.... (as an aside, Dbl Maths, Physics and Chem which led to a rather decent Uni.)
There were times in Further Maths that I was completely baffled. Further Maths - both Pure and Applied wasn't it? How one of my class 'got' all the pure maths stuff, I will never understand - maybe that is no different from our resident Engineer? Having said that, the chap I am thinking of did go on to Trinity to do Natural Sciences....
Too many people seem happy to almost feel pride in their inability to get the basics - the girl mentioned above wasn't proud of it but she was very funny when quizzed. She wasn't forgiven just for being really pretty - honest!
Back to the Engineer chap (cant remember his log in/name) - I really am being honest here but really? Or were your comments at all tongue in cheek to get a response?
On to Geography now, I really don't know if the Daily Mail is being truthful with some of these supposed questions but even if these are from the easiest idiots version of the GCSE they are too still easy for that type of exam. And are they really multiple choice, you usually find the 3 or 4 wrong choices are so ridiculously wrong it can only be the the one that's left, pretty much like the driving theory test.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/arti...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/arti...
mickmcpaddy said:
On to Geography now, I really don't know if the Daily Mail is being truthful with some of these supposed questions but even if these are from the easiest idiots version of the GCSE they are too still easy for that type of exam. And are they really multiple choice, you usually find the 3 or 4 wrong choices are so ridiculously wrong it can only be the the one that's left, pretty much like the driving theory test.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/arti...
I don't remember having a multiple choice section on my geography GCSE but then it was 16 years ago. I did get an A back then, must have known it at one point. 9/12 on the Daily Mail quiz therehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/arti...
Shakermaker said:
mickmcpaddy said:
On to Geography now, I really don't know if the Daily Mail is being truthful with some of these supposed questions but even if these are from the easiest idiots version of the GCSE they are too still easy for that type of exam. And are they really multiple choice, you usually find the 3 or 4 wrong choices are so ridiculously wrong it can only be the the one that's left, pretty much like the driving theory test.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/arti...
I don't remember having a multiple choice section on my geography GCSE but then it was 16 years ago. I did get an A back then, must have known it at one point. 9/12 on the Daily Mail quiz therehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/arti...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/education/subjects/zkw76sg
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