Haunted by a child? Thoughts?
Discussion
Humans can see magnetic disturbances, when the conditions are right. When the solar wind interacts in a certain way with the Earth's magnetosphere it produces conflict that can be seen as the aurora borealis. The solar wind and the magnetosphere are always there to a certain degree, it's only when the correct relationship occurs that the charged particles express themselves as visible plasma. It's only a fairly narrow range of something that happens all the time that we are able to see.
How can we say for sure that supernatural phenomena are a similar narrow range that due to all the conditions coinciding at the exact correct moment produces an event some people (perhaps with slightly more acute senses than most) are able to perceive?
I don't really believe in ghosts as such, but I'm willing to believe there are natural phenomena we have not yet quantified and categorised. We think science has explained so much but it often has gaps even in what is common knowledge and accepted. Gravity is a good example... everyone knew what it was and what it did long before Newton named and observed it, they didn't need a measurement to know if you dropped stuff if fell downwards. It was obvious, it was accepted and no-one even really noticed it went on or gave it any thought. Nowadays every schoolkid knows gravity is a by-product of mass but how many even grown adults can explain how it actually works? Everyone knows that E=MC² but how many people can explain what energy=the speed of light squared actually means?
How can we say for sure that supernatural phenomena are a similar narrow range that due to all the conditions coinciding at the exact correct moment produces an event some people (perhaps with slightly more acute senses than most) are able to perceive?
I don't really believe in ghosts as such, but I'm willing to believe there are natural phenomena we have not yet quantified and categorised. We think science has explained so much but it often has gaps even in what is common knowledge and accepted. Gravity is a good example... everyone knew what it was and what it did long before Newton named and observed it, they didn't need a measurement to know if you dropped stuff if fell downwards. It was obvious, it was accepted and no-one even really noticed it went on or gave it any thought. Nowadays every schoolkid knows gravity is a by-product of mass but how many even grown adults can explain how it actually works? Everyone knows that E=MC² but how many people can explain what energy=the speed of light squared actually means?
Efbe said:
Guvernator said:
The ghost thing was tongue in cheek but you seem to have concentrated on that to the exclusion of the rest of my post, I think your interactions with Rawwrr are making you a bit too defensive 
Where in my post did I say I don't believe in quantum physics? I was merely pointing out that while certain quantum effects have been observed, we aren't really any closer to understanding WHY they occur except for some unproven theories so currently, saying something happens because it's "quantum" is like saying it happens because of The Force (Star Wars tm).
My case in point, you've tried to use quantum to try to explain satellites and USB drives, as far as I am aware there is no quantum physics involved in any of them, just good old fashioned normal physics
Apologies if I misinterpreted!Where in my post did I say I don't believe in quantum physics? I was merely pointing out that while certain quantum effects have been observed, we aren't really any closer to understanding WHY they occur except for some unproven theories so currently, saying something happens because it's "quantum" is like saying it happens because of The Force (Star Wars tm).
My case in point, you've tried to use quantum to try to explain satellites and USB drives, as far as I am aware there is no quantum physics involved in any of them, just good old fashioned normal physics
As a side to this topic, Satellites, MRIs and USBs all use quantum physics calculations to make them work. They wouldn't work without them.
Many quantum theories are proven, quantum physics has been going for quite some time, however there are always new theories coming out, one of which I was discussing quite a bit earlier in this thread, consciousness as a quantum process. I didn't seem to elicit a very good conversation on this, possibly crap posts on my behalf, however the point of these posts was not to say ghosts are caused by quantum processes, more a question of could quantum processes cause people to think there are ghosts... as well as dust on cameras and apparently twitchy cats causing people to think this as well
Efbe said:
When we say humans can't use magnetic fields, we do not know this to be true. The protein that is present in the eyes of birds and in other creatures such as molluscs and bacteria is also present in our own eyes. The mechanism that takes this magnetoreception from the eye to the brain is unknown, possibly because our understanding of the quantum processes in the brain are so new. So maybe we can, and maybe we can't. The possibility is there however.
My understanding is that the organ that allows for detection of the Earth's magnetic field is, in pigeons, nothing to do with the eyes but it a sensor at the top of the nose. So a pigeon just instinctively knows which way is north, south, east and west, it just senses it. In the same way we know it's cold or the toast is burning. The pigeon would still know this even if you removed its eyes. It's not an ability we have, as we don't have the sensor.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
My understanding is that the organ that allows for detection of the Earth's magnetic field is, in pigeons, nothing to do with the eyes but it a sensor at the top of the nose. So a pigeon just instinctively knows which way is north, south, east and west, it just senses it. In the same way we know it's cold or the toast is burning.
The pigeon would still know this even if you removed its eyes. It's not an ability we have, as we don't have the sensor.
I thought they just used a Garmin.The pigeon would still know this even if you removed its eyes. It's not an ability we have, as we don't have the sensor.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Efbe said:
When we say humans can't use magnetic fields, we do not know this to be true. The protein that is present in the eyes of birds and in other creatures such as molluscs and bacteria is also present in our own eyes. The mechanism that takes this magnetoreception from the eye to the brain is unknown, possibly because our understanding of the quantum processes in the brain are so new. So maybe we can, and maybe we can't. The possibility is there however.
My understanding is that the organ that allows for detection of the Earth's magnetic field is, in pigeons, nothing to do with the eyes but it a sensor at the top of the nose. So a pigeon just instinctively knows which way is north, south, east and west, it just senses it. In the same way we know it's cold or the toast is burning. The pigeon would still know this even if you removed its eyes. It's not an ability we have, as we don't have the sensor.
Anyhow, some interesting stuff here regarding magnetoreception in mammals...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoreception#In_...
Who would have thought in Foxes!
Edited by Efbe on Wednesday 22 November 21:16
Richie C said:
Efbe said:
Guvernator said:
The ghost thing was tongue in cheek but you seem to have concentrated on that to the exclusion of the rest of my post, I think your interactions with Rawwrr are making you a bit too defensive
Where in my post did I say I don't believe in quantum physics? I was merely pointing out that while certain quantum effects have been observed, we aren't really any closer to understanding WHY they occur except for some unproven theories so currently, saying something happens because it's "quantum" is like saying it happens because of The Force (Star Wars tm).
My case in point, you've tried to use quantum to try to explain satellites and USB drives, as far as I am aware there is no quantum physics involved in any of them, just good old fashioned normal physics
Apologies if I misinterpreted!Where in my post did I say I don't believe in quantum physics? I was merely pointing out that while certain quantum effects have been observed, we aren't really any closer to understanding WHY they occur except for some unproven theories so currently, saying something happens because it's "quantum" is like saying it happens because of The Force (Star Wars tm).
My case in point, you've tried to use quantum to try to explain satellites and USB drives, as far as I am aware there is no quantum physics involved in any of them, just good old fashioned normal physics
As a side to this topic, Satellites, MRIs and USBs all use quantum physics calculations to make them work. They wouldn't work without them.
Many quantum theories are proven, quantum physics has been going for quite some time, however there are always new theories coming out, one of which I was discussing quite a bit earlier in this thread, consciousness as a quantum process. I didn't seem to elicit a very good conversation on this, possibly crap posts on my behalf, however the point of these posts was not to say ghosts are caused by quantum processes, more a question of could quantum processes cause people to think there are ghosts... as well as dust on cameras and apparently twitchy cats causing people to think this as well
Whilst I don't think this will turn out to be true, there is the possibility there are quantum processes between each other's brains. Mind-reading anyone? IMO that is pulling a bit hard at the strings of Quantumness, but there are plenty of pseudo scientists out there willing to make leaps like this.
The other crazy leap is in the tests that have shown consciousness, as a quantum process, to survive death, even if very briefly. If these processes are able to survive death, then could they operate completely independently of the brain? i.e. consciousness floating free in the wind... well ok another barmy leap that I would not want to make myself, but many inevitably will.
Efbe said:
maybe so, but maybe not.
Whilst I don't think this will turn out to be true, there is the possibility there are quantum processes between each other's brains. Mind-reading anyone? IMO that is pulling a bit hard at the strings of Quantumness, but there are plenty of pseudo scientists out there willing to make leaps like this.
The other crazy leap is in the tests that have shown consciousness, as a quantum process, to survive death, even if very briefly. If these processes are able to survive death, then could they operate completely independently of the brain? i.e. consciousness floating free in the wind... well ok another barmy leap that I would not want to make myself, but many inevitably will.
That just depends on the arbitrary definition you assign to 'death'. Whilst I don't think this will turn out to be true, there is the possibility there are quantum processes between each other's brains. Mind-reading anyone? IMO that is pulling a bit hard at the strings of Quantumness, but there are plenty of pseudo scientists out there willing to make leaps like this.
The other crazy leap is in the tests that have shown consciousness, as a quantum process, to survive death, even if very briefly. If these processes are able to survive death, then could they operate completely independently of the brain? i.e. consciousness floating free in the wind... well ok another barmy leap that I would not want to make myself, but many inevitably will.
Death isn't an event, it's a process. Part of which is losing consciousness (if you had it in the first place).
It would be easy and reasonable to include 'consciousness' as one defining element of 'life'. As in "if this person is any or all of:
- A
- B
- C
- X
- Y
- conscious
Please flesh it out - give us an example of a dead person who was still conscious.
SpeckledJim said:
That just depends on the arbitrary definition you assign to 'death'.
Death isn't an event, it's a process. Part of which is losing consciousness (if you had it in the first place).
It would be easy and reasonable to include 'consciousness' as one defining element of 'life'. As in "if this person is any or all of:
Please flesh it out - give us an example of a dead person who was still conscious.
JimDeath isn't an event, it's a process. Part of which is losing consciousness (if you had it in the first place).
It would be easy and reasonable to include 'consciousness' as one defining element of 'life'. As in "if this person is any or all of:
- A
- B
- C
- X
- Y
- conscious
Please flesh it out - give us an example of a dead person who was still conscious.
My definition of death is the cessation of the brain's mechanical/electrical processes. Not death of the body, but death of the brain.
Unfortunately I can't access most of the internet from work, fortunately I can access pistonheads though! The experiment to show the quantum processes of the brain surviving death were carried out by Penrose/Hameroff, have a google for it, just be wary of the aforementioned pseudo science websites claiming this advocates everything from aliens to mind control
in addition there is some good reading here: http://nautil.us/issue/47/consciousness/roger-penr...
Personally I would take Hameroff with a pinch of salt and focus more on Penrose who is undoubtedly an incredible physicist.
An update. Not good!
I was away today with one child, other child and wife at home.
She was having a bath, youngest was asleep, both cats were (strangely) in the bathroom with her. She sings some songs, changing to an old 1700s songs (it isn’t as weird as it sounds, she loves history and has just started working as an archeologist). When she sings it, she hears shuffling outside the door. She stops and it stops. She tries again, sing, shuffling. She’s pretty freaked out. She gets to the end of the song and someone pushes the door open!
She jumped out the bath and checked on the child, he was fast asleep. The cats wouldn’t leave until she did. They were looking at the door with their hair stood up whilst this was all happening.
This is the first time she’s felt really uncomfortable here. Oh dear.
I was away today with one child, other child and wife at home.
She was having a bath, youngest was asleep, both cats were (strangely) in the bathroom with her. She sings some songs, changing to an old 1700s songs (it isn’t as weird as it sounds, she loves history and has just started working as an archeologist). When she sings it, she hears shuffling outside the door. She stops and it stops. She tries again, sing, shuffling. She’s pretty freaked out. She gets to the end of the song and someone pushes the door open!
She jumped out the bath and checked on the child, he was fast asleep. The cats wouldn’t leave until she did. They were looking at the door with their hair stood up whilst this was all happening.
This is the first time she’s felt really uncomfortable here. Oh dear.
MJ85 said:
An update. Not good!
I was away today with one child, other child and wife at home.
She was having a bath, youngest was asleep, both cats were (strangely) in the bathroom with her. She sings some songs, changing to an old 1700s songs (it isn’t as weird as it sounds, she loves history and has just started working as an archeologist). When she sings it, she hears shuffling outside the door. She stops and it stops. She tries again, sing, shuffling. She’s pretty freaked out. She gets to the end of the song and someone pushes the door open!
She jumped out the bath and checked on the child, he was fast asleep. The cats wouldn’t leave until she did. They were looking at the door with their hair stood up whilst this was all happening.
This is the first time she’s felt really uncomfortable here. Oh dear.
You need to film your wife in the bath and post the video on here or clearly this did not happen.I was away today with one child, other child and wife at home.
She was having a bath, youngest was asleep, both cats were (strangely) in the bathroom with her. She sings some songs, changing to an old 1700s songs (it isn’t as weird as it sounds, she loves history and has just started working as an archeologist). When she sings it, she hears shuffling outside the door. She stops and it stops. She tries again, sing, shuffling. She’s pretty freaked out. She gets to the end of the song and someone pushes the door open!
She jumped out the bath and checked on the child, he was fast asleep. The cats wouldn’t leave until she did. They were looking at the door with their hair stood up whilst this was all happening.
This is the first time she’s felt really uncomfortable here. Oh dear.
If your OH does requests, could she sing an old nursery rhyme from the same period and you record any results? You might get a stronger response, but I can understand that might be the opposite of what you want. It might make things clearer and maybe you could get a better idea of how to deal with the situation.
I lived in a place in which I experienced some things happening shortly after I moved in (which I'm not prepared to share because of the victimisation the usual tossers will engage in). After a number of things happened, I basically ended up talking to a apparently empty room at a particular time (the time when the weird things usually started) and from that date nothing else happened. It felt a nicer place to live as well (someone else who lived there at the same time had also experienced things which they could explain, although they matched some of mine.
I lived in a place in which I experienced some things happening shortly after I moved in (which I'm not prepared to share because of the victimisation the usual tossers will engage in). After a number of things happened, I basically ended up talking to a apparently empty room at a particular time (the time when the weird things usually started) and from that date nothing else happened. It felt a nicer place to live as well (someone else who lived there at the same time had also experienced things which they could explain, although they matched some of mine.
That's pretty freaky. On one hand you could say it was opened with the energy of an excited child - on the other, someone bigger or who possibly doesn't like that song or doesn't like the sound of a woman singing that song, for instance. Maybe you should try singing it.
Have you got a budget for a decent quality field recorder, like a Zoom H2n and a decent capacity SD card (about £100 all in - they're more useful than you might realise at first). It could help you get some crystal clear recordings, they power up and start recording within 5-10sec.
(I have to confess, I haven't read the full thread due to the trolls/humiliation directed to contributors - not your fault, of course).
Have you got a budget for a decent quality field recorder, like a Zoom H2n and a decent capacity SD card (about £100 all in - they're more useful than you might realise at first). It could help you get some crystal clear recordings, they power up and start recording within 5-10sec.
(I have to confess, I haven't read the full thread due to the trolls/humiliation directed to contributors - not your fault, of course).
My wife is a total non believer in paranormal stuff, does not interest her in the slightest.
One day she saw someone go upstairs in our house, just a brief glimpse for a fraction of a second, never thought anything of it just thought it was either me or our son.
Came into the living room and we were both sat there.
One day she saw someone go upstairs in our house, just a brief glimpse for a fraction of a second, never thought anything of it just thought it was either me or our son.
Came into the living room and we were both sat there.
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