The greatest human ever....

[Roofless Toothless]

Vocal Minority said:

Roofless Toothless said:

MYOB said:

Roofless Toothless said:

For one thing, I am positive I wouldn't be sitting here typing this were it not for him.

Are you seriously suggesting you have Churchill to thank for your existence?

My mother's family were Russian Jewish immigrants. My dad was not Jewish, but for what it was worth, adopted the religion to keep some members of mum's family happy.

If the invasion had occurred and was successful, my family would have been off to the extermination camps.

I was born in 1949.

You work it out.

You still need to address the point that maybe you are giving Churchill too much credit.

I think that's fair enough. Of course we are all indebted to everyone who donned a uniform in those times to fight for the freedoms we enjoy today, to that extent Churchill is just one we have to thank.

But I have never heard of anyone else who was so perfectly placed at the centre of power and had the personality to provide the backbone to hold the country together at such a crisis as this. Chamberlain was out of the way, thank goodness, and even Lord Halifax turned down the premiership, saying that Churchill was the man that was needed.

Anyway, I am becoming conscious of getting this thread far too bogged down on this issue, and I won't be revisiting it. I actually never nominated Churchill in the first place!

On leaving I offer another candidate. How about the sixth century Roman general Belisarius?

[Ayahuasca]

Belisarius? What did he ever do for us?

[justinio]

Chuck Norris

[Dakkon]

MegaCat said:

Nelson Mandela

Why on earth would you chose him? He was far from being an angel.

[TooMany2cvs]

Roofless Toothless said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Roofless Toothless said:

My mother's family were Russian Jewish immigrants. My dad was not Jewish, but for what it was worth, adopted the religion to keep some members of mum's family happy.

If the invasion had occurred and was successful, my family would have been off to the extermination camps.

I was born in 1949.

You work it out.

So if it wasn't for Stalin, not only would the invasion of Britain have happened, but your parents would never have met in the first place?

Forgive me if I am wrong, but the Battle of Britain took place in the summer of 1940, and at this time Stalin was happy to enjoy a non-aggression pact with Hitler. It was not until June 1941 that he invaded Russia, to Stalin's amazement. I can't see how Stalin contributed to preventing an invasion.

If it wasn't for the Eastern Front, then the allies would have lost the European war, and the invasion would have been back on the cards.

Roofless Toothless said:

Actually, my mum and dad met because mum's dad moved here in 1906. Oddly enough, I always wonder if he ever rubbed shoulders with Stalin and Lenin when they were both in the East End (with Trotsky) in 1907 while they were all in London for the Fifth Congress of the Russian social democratic and labour party.

Ah - I was assuming Russian Jews would have been escaping post-revolution.

[Ayahuasca]

I am not religious, so this nomination is not based on my beliefs.

Jesus Christ.

Nobody else comes close in terms of influencing life on this planet - for better or worse - than JC, and all he did was talk to some fishermen and peasants in an unimportant backwater of the Roman empire, and he only did that for three years. Three years!

[SCEtoAUX]

Actually I'm changing my mind and going for Neil Armstrong, purely for the symbolism of humankind's first step on another world.

If we don't wipe ourselves out then surely we shall travel to the stars over the coming millennia, and that journey began with him.

[Ayahuasca]

SCEtoAUX said:

Actually I'm changing my mind and going for Neil Armstrong, purely for the symbolism of humankind's first step on another world.

If we don't wipe ourselves out then surely we shall travel to the stars over the coming millennia, and that journey began with him.

I get where you are coming from, but didn't that journey begin with Yuri Gagarin, President Kennedy, or Werner von Braun, or even with the first humanoid to rub two sticks together to make fire? (Cue 2001:Space Odyssey fanfare....)

[MegaCat]

Dakkon said:

MegaCat said:

Nelson Mandela

Why on earth would you chose him? He was far from being an angel.

Bacause it was an answer to the OPs question, which as usual gets forgotten on these threads ; )

[mattyn1]

Ayahuasca said:

I get where you are coming from, but didn't that journey begin with Yuri Gagarin, President Kennedy, or Werner von Braun, or even with the first humanoid to rub two sticks together to make fire? (Cue 2001:Space Odyssey fanfare....)

And if the moon bit was actually faked, the aliens will probably know!

[TooMany2cvs]

Ayahuasca said:

I am not religious, so this nomination is not based on my beliefs.

Jesus Christ.

Nobody else comes close in terms of influencing life on this planet - for better or worse - than JC, and all he did was talk to some fishermen and peasants in an unimportant backwater of the Roman empire, and he only did that for three years. Three years!

If we're going in that direction, then how about Mohammed? The Golden Age was a massively influential time for later civilisations - maths, sciences, arts, healthcare, engineering, architecture - spread across almost all the civilised world. Meanwhile, neither the Holy Roman Empire or France were doing very much at all except trying to hold together, and an island just north of mainland Europe was just about unified under a single king who was wondering what that burning smell from the kitchen was, and trying not to be raped and pillaged too hard by Vikings.

[GAjon]

Send Ross Brawn.

[SCEtoAUX]

Ayahuasca said:

SCEtoAUX said:

Actually I'm changing my mind and going for Neil Armstrong, purely for the symbolism of humankind's first step on another world.

If we don't wipe ourselves out then surely we shall travel to the stars over the coming millennia, and that journey began with him.

I get where you are coming from, but didn't that journey begin with Yuri Gagarin, President Kennedy, or Werner von Braun, or even with the first humanoid to rub two sticks together to make fire? (Cue 2001:Space Odyssey fanfare....)

That's why I mentioned symbolism. That first step on the moon, in my opinion, represents what could well turn out to me the most symbolic point in all of human history, and it was Armstrong who did it.

[The Don of Croy]

I know Mandela gets a look in on many questions like the OP poses, but what I find more interesting is just how invisible he is in popular culture until his more famous comrades are removed. He's the last man standing in RSA with the mandate of the masses.

I'd go for someone educated to a high standard but also capable of excelling in another area - like Roger Bannister or Chris Brasher - and so arrive at;


Dr. Graeme Garden

[Ayahuasca]

TooMany2cvs said:

Ayahuasca said:

I am not religious, so this nomination is not based on my beliefs.

Jesus Christ.

Nobody else comes close in terms of influencing life on this planet - for better or worse - than JC, and all he did was talk to some fishermen and peasants in an unimportant backwater of the Roman empire, and he only did that for three years. Three years!

If we're going in that direction, then how about Mohammed? The Golden Age was a massively influential time for later civilisations - maths, sciences, arts, healthcare, engineering, architecture - spread across almost all the civilised world. Meanwhile, neither the Holy Roman Empire or France were doing very much at all except trying to hold together, and an island just north of mainland Europe was just about unified under a single king who was wondering what that burning smell from the kitchen was, and trying not to be raped and pillaged too hard by Vikings.

I think there is a view that people 2000 years ago were a bit primitive and so willing to follow any old peddlar of heavenly bullst. But if you read something like the 'Meditations' of Marcus Aurelus it is clear that there were some deep thinkers around in those times too so to have achieved what JC and Mohammed did is pretty spectacular.

[johnxjsc1985]

Alexander the Great. he even had a great name.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Ayahuasca said:

I am not religious, so this nomination is not based on my beliefs.

Jesus Christ.

Nobody else comes close in terms of influencing life on this planet - for better or worse - than JC, and all he did was talk to some fishermen and peasants in an unimportant backwater of the Roman empire, and he only did that for three years. Three years!

There is no reliable evidence that he even existed. The Romans kept good records, and many Roman soldiers and citizens kept diaries, and this Jesus fellow, despite all the stories we hear about him, doesn't get a single mention by anyone, anywhere.

[glazbagun]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Alexander the Great. he even had a great name.

As I posted above, I reckon Cyrus the Great was Greater. He started with less and ended up with a whole lot more than a trail of vanquished foes.

Alexander himself admired Cyrus and (after invading his old kingdom), had one of his men restore the tomb. The first hand account of Alexanders arrival is lost, but the tomb allegedly had the inscription:

"O man, whoever thou art, from wheresoever thou cometh, for I know you shall come, I am Cyrus, who founded the Persian Empire.
Grudge me not, therefore, this little earth that covers my body."

or

"Passer-by, I am Cyrus, who founded the Persian Empire, and was king of Asia. Grudge me not therefore this monument."

[Ayahuasca]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Ayahuasca said:

I am not religious, so this nomination is not based on my beliefs.

Jesus Christ.

Nobody else comes close in terms of influencing life on this planet - for better or worse - than JC, and all he did was talk to some fishermen and peasants in an unimportant backwater of the Roman empire, and he only did that for three years. Three years!

There is no reliable evidence that he even existed. The Romans kept good records, and many Roman soldiers and citizens kept diaries, and this Jesus fellow, despite all the stories we hear about him, doesn't get a single mention by anyone, anywhere.

I believe that you are right. However, of the millions of people in the Roman Empire at the time, how many of their names were recorded for posterity? Apart from emperors and senators and other VIPs, almost none. Ancient records are almost non existent. Even Pontius Pilate who held a quite high position is only known by one carving. The ancient druids of Britain are well known to have existed, right? That was a whole class of people that entire expeditions were sent to fight. Only ever mentioned in passing in a couple of sources. The ancient Picts, a whole tribe, are only known by a few vague Roman entries. Name even one Roman-era Pictish leader. Cannot be done, no records. So what chance of records existing of some deranged lunatic from Nazareth? I am not saying he definitely existed, but the circumstantial evidence very much points to him existing.

[littlebasher]