Things that annoy you beyond reason...(Vol 5)

[nonsequitur]

The Mad Monk said:

He seems alright?

So long as he stays in Scotland! Why is he called 'Steak and Kidney'?

Kate and Sidney? A sort of Rhyming slang.

[V8mate]

nonsequitur said:

br d said:

Tom_Spotley_When said:

I was in Berlin at the start of March. Probably 2/3rds of the bars we went to didn't take card. Cash only. It was unbelievably irritating.

Odd how peoples expectations are different. I've been in a lot of pubs in my time and have never used a card. I just wouldn't walk in a pub or bar if I didn't have cash on me.

Agree. Somehow a round of drinks and cash go together.

In London they certainly don't!

[nonsequitur]

V8mate said:

nonsequitur said:

br d said:

Tom_Spotley_When said:

I was in Berlin at the start of March. Probably 2/3rds of the bars we went to didn't take card. Cash only. It was unbelievably irritating.

Odd how peoples expectations are different. I've been in a lot of pubs in my time and have never used a card. I just wouldn't walk in a pub or bar if I didn't have cash on me.

Agree. Somehow a round of drinks and cash go together.

In London they certainly don't!

London? I went there once. Had my wallet stolen whilst waiting at the crowded bar to order and pay for drinks. No wallet. no money. no drinks.

[Frank7]

nonsequitur said:

Agree. Somehow a round of drinks and cash go together.

I’d go to the fallout shelter now if I were you nonseq, the
millennials will here soon, to show you the error of your ways.

[V8mate]

nonsequitur said:

V8mate said:

nonsequitur said:

br d said:

Tom_Spotley_When said:

I was in Berlin at the start of March. Probably 2/3rds of the bars we went to didn't take card. Cash only. It was unbelievably irritating.

Odd how peoples expectations are different. I've been in a lot of pubs in my time and have never used a card. I just wouldn't walk in a pub or bar if I didn't have cash on me.

Agree. Somehow a round of drinks and cash go together.

In London they certainly don't!

London? I went there once. Had my wallet stolen whilst waiting at the crowded bar to order and pay for drinks. No wallet. no money. no drinks.

There you go then. Paying with your phone or watch or bracelet is the future!

[nonsequitur]

V8mate said:

There you go then. Paying with your phone or watch or bracelet is the future!

My phone is always switched off, my watch is a basic Casio, and I refuse to wear a 'bracelet'.

[nonsequitur]

Frank7 said:

nonsequitur said:

Agree. Somehow a round of drinks and cash go together.

I’d go to the fallout shelter now if I were you nonseq, the
millennials will here soon, to show you the error of your ways.

It's ccccold down here Frank.

[j_4m]

I never carry cash, I don't even have a wallet capable of holding cash and coins. I found it very irritating that the French taxi I got the other day couldn't take card payments and I had to go to an ATM, get stuffed by exchange rates and overseas charges, and I still have the change sitting on my table because what am I going to do with five Euros? Even the bloke with his shawarma food cart by my office takes contactless.

Ludicrous.

[nonsequitur]

j_4m said:

I never carry cash, I don't even have a wallet capable of holding cash and coins. I found it very irritating that the French taxi I got the other day couldn't take card payments and I had to go to an ATM, get stuffed by exchange rates and overseas charges, and I still have the change sitting on my table because what am I going to do with five Euros? Even the bloke with his shawarma food cart by my office takes contactless.

Ludicrous.

You are very welcome in our shop at any time, but minimum card payment is £5. Not unusual for small traders. Some on our patch are minimum £10.

[Antony Moxey]

j_4m said:

I never carry cash, I don't even have a wallet capable of holding cash and coins. I found it very irritating that the French taxi I got the other day couldn't take card payments and I had to go to an ATM, get stuffed by exchange rates and overseas charges, and I still have the change sitting on my table because what am I going to do with five Euros? Even the bloke with his shawarma food cart by my office takes contactless.

Ludicrous.

Save them for the next time you're in a French taxi?

[j_4m]

nonsequitur said:

You are very welcome in our shop at any time, but minimum card payment is £5. Not unusual for small traders. Some on our patch are minimum £10.

I was interested to find that in Stockholm most small cafes and shops don't even have cash tills, making it impossible to pay for anything unless using a card. It's a trend I'm seeing more and more in London too, small businesses completely giving up on cash. I guess the average spend here is much higher, mostly negating card fees, but it also means you spend less time cashing up and no longer need to do bank runs, not to mention have a safe and large quantities of cash on the premises.

[captain_cynic]

nonsequitur said:

You are very welcome in our shop at any time, but minimum card payment is £5. Not unusual for small traders. Some on our patch are minimum £10.

Yep, Because accepting cards costs the merchant money. It's not a tax dodge, it's a bank fee dodge.

A few years back a local cafe I went to back in Perth got caught up in the furore about not accepting cards and they weren't getting their precious bonus points from the cards. They relented and at the same time raised all of their prices by A$0.50 to cover the cost... But kept a separate cash menu on the Point of Sale system that gave you A$0.50 off everything if you paid in cash. The Credit Card addled never knew and just accepted the higher prices, I enjoyed my discount.

[V8mate]

captain_cynic said:

nonsequitur said:

You are very welcome in our shop at any time, but minimum card payment is £5. Not unusual for small traders. Some on our patch are minimum £10.

Yep, Because accepting cards costs the merchant money. It's not a tax dodge, it's a bank fee dodge.

And so does paying cash into business bank account cost money.

Merchant schemes and charging regimes have changed significantly in recent times, meaning that no trader need fear taking cards for even the smallest purchase. Where debit cards used to attract a fixed charge of 30p to 50p, that is old hat now, and (for small businesses) debit card fees are c.0.25 - 0.30%, with credit card fees c. 0.8-1.0%. If traders are paying more, they should review their provider.

[captain_cynic]

V8mate said:

And so does paying cash into business bank account cost money.

Merchant schemes and charging regimes have changed significantly in recent times, meaning that no trader need fear taking cards for even the smallest purchase. Where debit cards used to attract a fixed charge of 30p to 50p, that is old hat now, and (for small businesses) debit card fees are c.0.25 - 0.30%, with credit card fees c. 0.8-1.0%. If traders are paying more, they should review their provider.

The argument of someone who's never run a business.

The cost of cash isn't nearly as high as people pretend it is. You're barely paying a penny per transaction where as you're paying a minimum of 50p per transaction with cards, then on credit you're paying a percentage to each party involved (minumum of 3, your bank, clients bank and the credit network). If you're only making 20p profit per transaction, that means you've got to raise prices.

As for "talking with your provider"... you're having a laugh. First, you don't have time. Secondly, if you run a single business (which is mostly going to be staffed by yourself), a you're not going to get a custom deal with favourable terms, you end up stuffed with what you're given.

[V8mate]

captain_cynic said:

V8mate said:

And so does paying cash into business bank account cost money.

Merchant schemes and charging regimes have changed significantly in recent times, meaning that no trader need fear taking cards for even the smallest purchase. Where debit cards used to attract a fixed charge of 30p to 50p, that is old hat now, and (for small businesses) debit card fees are c.0.25 - 0.30%, with credit card fees c. 0.8-1.0%. If traders are paying more, they should review their provider.

The argument of someone who's never run a business.

The cost of cash isn't nearly as high as people pretend it is. You're barely paying a penny per transaction where as you're paying a minimum of 50p per transaction with cards, then on credit you're paying a percentage to each party involved (minumum of 3, your bank, clients bank and the credit network). If you're only making 20p profit per transaction, that means you've got to raise prices.

As for "talking with your provider"... you're having a laugh. First, you don't have time. Secondly, if you run a single business (which is mostly going to be staffed by yourself), a you're not going to get a custom deal with favourable terms, you end up stuffed with what you're given.

You really are a prize arrogant . You haven't got a fking clue.

[deckster]

captain_cynic said:

The cost of cash isn't nearly as high as people pretend it is. You're barely paying a penny per transaction where as you're paying a minimum of 50p per transaction with cards, then on credit you're paying a percentage to each party involved (minumum of 3, your bank, clients bank and the credit network). If you're only making 20p profit per transaction, that means you've got to raise prices.

Of course, the biggest cost is the transaction you didn't make because you didn't offer the customer what they wanted. It's probably not a big effect at the moment, particularly for smaller shops in out-of-the way places - but it's going to become more widespread in the next few years for sure. Even now, I resent having to pay cash pretty much anywhere and will actively avoid going back to shops if I haven't been able to use my card/phone to pay.

[j_4m]

deckster said:

Of course, the biggest cost is the transaction you didn't make because you didn't offer the customer what they wanted. It's probably not a big effect at the moment, particularly for smaller shops in out-of-the way places - but it's going to become more widespread in the next few years for sure. Even now, I resent having to pay cash pretty much anywhere and will actively avoid going back to shops if I haven't been able to use my card/phone to pay.

Yep. Unless I absolutely cannot avoid it I won't withdraw cash to pay, I'll just leave.

[br d]

j_4m said:

I was interested to find that in Stockholm most small cafes and shops don't even have cash tills, making it impossible to pay for anything unless using a card. It's a trend I'm seeing more and more in London too, small businesses completely giving up on cash. I guess the average spend here is much higher, mostly negating card fees, but it also means you spend less time cashing up and no longer need to do bank runs, not to mention have a safe and large quantities of cash on the premises.

I'm genuinely interested in these businesses that don't take cash. I'm in London everyday, what sort of businesses are they? I understand online and mail-order type things but are you saying there are shops and cafe's that don't take cash? Why on earth would they actively close down a line of income?

Whenever this subject comes up I'm surprised by some of the attitudes. I mostly use cash but I will use a debit card if I need to and I'm completely happy that some prefer card only, we're all covered then.
But the people who only use cards are very often hostile to cash, saying stuff like it's outdated and should be shelved and it annoys them. What - as they say - is the beef?

[V8mate]

br d said:

I'm genuinely interested in these businesses that don't take cash. I'm in London everyday, what sort of businesses are they? I understand online and mail-order type things but are you saying there are shops and cafe's that don't take cash? Why on earth would they actively close down a line of income?

Whenever this subject comes up I'm surprised by some of the attitudes. I mostly use cash but I will use a debit card if I need to and I'm completely happy that some prefer card only, we're all covered then.
But the people who only use cards are very often hostile to cash, saying stuff like it's outdated and should be shelved and it annoys them. What - as they say - is the beef?

Lots of small, independent businesses are going cashless - cafes, bars etc. It's mainly for staff security. Often they'll have only one person working, and they also want to avoid the risk of having to 'walk' the takings to the bank.

[SpeckledJim]

br d said:

j_4m said:

I was interested to find that in Stockholm most small cafes and shops don't even have cash tills, making it impossible to pay for anything unless using a card. It's a trend I'm seeing more and more in London too, small businesses completely giving up on cash. I guess the average spend here is much higher, mostly negating card fees, but it also means you spend less time cashing up and no longer need to do bank runs, not to mention have a safe and large quantities of cash on the premises.

I'm genuinely interested in these businesses that don't take cash. I'm in London everyday, what sort of businesses are they? I understand online and mail-order type things but are you saying there are shops and cafe's that don't take cash? Why on earth would they actively close down a line of income?

Whenever this subject comes up I'm surprised by some of the attitudes. I mostly use cash but I will use a debit card if I need to and I'm completely happy that some prefer card only, we're all covered then.
But the people who only use cards are very often hostile to cash, saying stuff like it's outdated and should be shelved and it annoys them. What - as they say - is the beef?

Cash is an expensive pain in the arse.

Staff need to risk getting mugged or attacked to bank it. Or you need to pay securicor a bloody fortune to collect it.
No time wasted on physically taking it to the bank.
No bank charges for paying in physical cash
No cash means staff can't steal it.
No 'he said, she said' between staff when a till is £20 short.
No need to control each staff member's access to the till
No cash means no 'I gave you a twenty' villains claiming to have been short-changed.
No cash means a thief can't steal it.
No cash means no fake notes or coins
No cash means your accounts are easier to reconcile and understand.


And realistically, the number of customers with cash but no card is very very few. And double-realistically, those might be some of the customers you'd prefer not to have, anyway.