Discussion
oilbethere said:
montecristo said:
I think a lot of what drives me is fear of the unknown. Life is good now financially. But I think oh what if this, what if that, what about the massive pile of money I think I need for retirement. 2008 didn't help - I had to close the business and restart two years later. In the grand scheme of things, a trivial event, but one can't always be rational about these things.
How old are you? Don't take this the wrong way will you see retirement? Life's a lottery why worry about the future, you may be dead in the next second.NRS said:
oilbethere said:
montecristo said:
I think a lot of what drives me is fear of the unknown. Life is good now financially. But I think oh what if this, what if that, what about the massive pile of money I think I need for retirement. 2008 didn't help - I had to close the business and restart two years later. In the grand scheme of things, a trivial event, but one can't always be rational about these things.
How old are you? Don't take this the wrong way will you see retirement? Life's a lottery why worry about the future, you may be dead in the next second.It's a really tough balance, as like you I'd love more free time to do the things I enjoy but I then appreciate that those things plus the basics of food, shelter, heating etc all require money which obviously takes up time to acquire. I'm still not sure if I'm getting the balance right but I generally feel pretty happy with life so will take that as a sign it's alright
I can't quite get my head around the "live for today as you could be dead tomorrow" philosophy, almost hoping you're dead so that you don't have to suffer the consequences of your poor decisions doesn't seem that smart an idea to me, though just working to afford to a fancy car and watch to have for work doesn't sound a much better alternative either
I've been reading the Derren Brown book 'Happy' which is quite thought provoking and I'd recommend taking a look at it, though I'm not yet sure if the insights I've gained from it will change my actual actions
I can't quite get my head around the "live for today as you could be dead tomorrow" philosophy, almost hoping you're dead so that you don't have to suffer the consequences of your poor decisions doesn't seem that smart an idea to me, though just working to afford to a fancy car and watch to have for work doesn't sound a much better alternative either
I've been reading the Derren Brown book 'Happy' which is quite thought provoking and I'd recommend taking a look at it, though I'm not yet sure if the insights I've gained from it will change my actual actions
oilbethere said:
How old are you? Don't take this the wrong way will you see retirement? Life's a lottery why worry about the future, you may be dead in the next second.
My attitude is the complete opposite of that. The law of averages states that you'll live to be 80+ and I would rather work hard now while I'm young and relatively healthy, pay off the mortgage and save for a decent retirement, so that I don't have to spend the last 20 years of my life working or destitute.It is, as you say, a balance. If you have the money, you can actually buy time back. For example, you could fairly inexpensively outsource the laundry, cleaning, house maintenance and so on the same way you have your car serviced. Of course you and your partner can do all of these things yourselves, but you'll get the time back to do other things.
Then, think about how you can work more effectively. I spent years jumping whenever the Blackberry (later iPhone) went off. It never let me wind down, every evening, weekend, holiday... I spent time with the kids, but was always slightly on edge. TURN IT OFF. Really. I can't, maybe you can? If you're a manager, are you delegating effectively? Are your team empowered and confident to make decisions in your absence?
Look at your sleep too. Are you sleeping enough, or well enough, that when you're not working you have the energy to do things?
Check out your finances in detail, again. Requote for your insurances, I saved a packet on house/contents insurance with a few calls. The comparison sites do NOT always give the best deal. Look at how much food you throw away. Are you over-purchasing? Can you plan meals and just buy what you really need?
Then, think about how you can work more effectively. I spent years jumping whenever the Blackberry (later iPhone) went off. It never let me wind down, every evening, weekend, holiday... I spent time with the kids, but was always slightly on edge. TURN IT OFF. Really. I can't, maybe you can? If you're a manager, are you delegating effectively? Are your team empowered and confident to make decisions in your absence?
Look at your sleep too. Are you sleeping enough, or well enough, that when you're not working you have the energy to do things?
Check out your finances in detail, again. Requote for your insurances, I saved a packet on house/contents insurance with a few calls. The comparison sites do NOT always give the best deal. Look at how much food you throw away. Are you over-purchasing? Can you plan meals and just buy what you really need?
oilbethere said:
How old are you? Don't take this the wrong way will you see retirement? Life's a lottery why worry about the future, you may be dead in the next second.
40s. I agree about being dead the next second, that just means I want to do "all the things" now, which means money.I also agree with others on here that I am likely to be 20 years retired, so I need to save up for that. Admittedly with a tendency to over-provision.
There's a reason money is called hard earned, and I've come to learn that over the last couple of years.
Up until 2 years ago I worked long hours in a job I enjoyed. I was a bench scientist doing early stage drug discovery for a big pharma company and I would think nothing of putting in a 60 hour week. The projects were stimulating and enjoyable, if occasionally rather stressful.
I've now left the lab and work in a corporate function. I get paid more, do fewer hours and have the opportunity to work from home when I feel like it. On paper it's a great job, in reality I am resenting the 37 hours I put into this position a lot more than the 60 hours I put into the previous position. The job is making me miserable to the point where it's impacting my enjoyment outside of work. There's no real down time as email and phone calls could arrive at any minute, and while I try not to work outside my hours, the knowledge that issues are piling up makes enjoying time with my wife and kids much harder.
My point is that it's not always a time v money equation. 3 years ago I had less money and less time, but I was much happier and more fulfilled than I am now....
Up until 2 years ago I worked long hours in a job I enjoyed. I was a bench scientist doing early stage drug discovery for a big pharma company and I would think nothing of putting in a 60 hour week. The projects were stimulating and enjoyable, if occasionally rather stressful.
I've now left the lab and work in a corporate function. I get paid more, do fewer hours and have the opportunity to work from home when I feel like it. On paper it's a great job, in reality I am resenting the 37 hours I put into this position a lot more than the 60 hours I put into the previous position. The job is making me miserable to the point where it's impacting my enjoyment outside of work. There's no real down time as email and phone calls could arrive at any minute, and while I try not to work outside my hours, the knowledge that issues are piling up makes enjoying time with my wife and kids much harder.
My point is that it's not always a time v money equation. 3 years ago I had less money and less time, but I was much happier and more fulfilled than I am now....
NRS said:
The average person will see quite a lot of retirement, and given the way the government pension is likely to go then you'd be stupid to only live for today. Many people are going to be screwed with that outlook when they discover they didn't actually die at 65.
Probably be 70-75 retirement age if you're just starting out in work, millions will work til they drop f
k that! The amount of obese adults and kids you see walking round will mean not many will make it anyway.montecristo said:
40s. I agree about being dead the next second, that just means I want to do "all the things" now, which means money.
I also agree with others on here that I am likely to be 20 years retired, so I need to save up for that. Admittedly with a tendency to over-provision.
It's all a gamble! I'd save a little bit for the future but make most of today.I also agree with others on here that I am likely to be 20 years retired, so I need to save up for that. Admittedly with a tendency to over-provision.
This seems like a false dichotomy to me because it assumes work is a grind whose only merit is to fund leisure.
I worked from the age of 11 to now (69) and lived in seven countries. Love the Adrenalin of work and now only do maybe 35 hours a week.
Zero interest in vegging on some remote beach. I need a reason to get up in the morning. I have always had hobbies. - photography ,travel, wine collecting, reading, gym, fast cars but would be bored to death if that was all that mattered.
For me it is utter BS that I will wonder on my deathbed if I should have spent less time in the office. I have met some of the most fascinating people through work and there is deep satisfaction in a meaningful job. Today I work because I love it. Do not need more money as I have no ambition to reach the mega rich level. Happy where I am.
If work is a burden it raises the question as to why one would stay. I have had five major jobs and in some cases changed because I was getting bored.
Not for everyone but not interested in some pad with servants in Thailand or a beach house in Bali or trekking the world on a million mile hike.
We are all different so understand that my choices are not for everyone
I worked from the age of 11 to now (69) and lived in seven countries. Love the Adrenalin of work and now only do maybe 35 hours a week.
Zero interest in vegging on some remote beach. I need a reason to get up in the morning. I have always had hobbies. - photography ,travel, wine collecting, reading, gym, fast cars but would be bored to death if that was all that mattered.
For me it is utter BS that I will wonder on my deathbed if I should have spent less time in the office. I have met some of the most fascinating people through work and there is deep satisfaction in a meaningful job. Today I work because I love it. Do not need more money as I have no ambition to reach the mega rich level. Happy where I am.
If work is a burden it raises the question as to why one would stay. I have had five major jobs and in some cases changed because I was getting bored.
Not for everyone but not interested in some pad with servants in Thailand or a beach house in Bali or trekking the world on a million mile hike.
We are all different so understand that my choices are not for everyone
The book to read is the 100 year life that lays out some of the key challenges and financial realities of living to be old.
Of course you could luckily drop off at 40 and not have to worry about retirement and financial planning and live for today but you might be very unlucky and live to 90. Statistically far more likely.
Of course you could luckily drop off at 40 and not have to worry about retirement and financial planning and live for today but you might be very unlucky and live to 90. Statistically far more likely.
oilbethere said:
NRS said:
The average person will see quite a lot of retirement, and given the way the government pension is likely to go then you'd be stupid to only live for today. Many people are going to be screwed with that outlook when they discover they didn't actually die at 65.
Probably be 70-75 retirement age if you're just starting out in work, millions will work til they drop fk that! The amount of obese adults and kids you see walking round will mean not many will make it anyway.It's a balance, not one or the other. The annoying thing for those that save is they will probably have to help cover the idiots who only live for today when they run out of money. Or it will just be yet more debt to pass onto the kids.
BRR said:
I've been reading the Derren Brown book 'Happy' which is quite thought provoking and I'd recommend taking a look at it, though I'm not yet sure if the insights I've gained from it will change my actual actions
Thanks for the recommendation - its 99p on amazon so I've downloaded it. Always liked stuff like this.As for the topic, I've always been massively more motivated by having "me time" than money. I am not financially motivated in any way other than ensuring I can survive with a reasonable degree of "comfort". Much beyond that, I really couldn't give a toss about it.
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