Chauffeurs - what's the deal?
Discussion
singlecoil said:
What is being portrayed here is the ideal situation. It's not like that for most chauffeurs in private employment. I can remember one full time chap who had a good position with a family, even had his own cottage on the country estate when the family were there instead of their London residence. Been with them for about six years and when they didn't need him anymore he was made redundant and that was the end of it. He was still upset about it when I met him a few months later.
That guy, compared to many in the industry, did have the ideal situation - six years on a one-to-one with accommodation. What he experienced was the downside of private household employment, demands change and that is reflected in staffing.A family with three teenage children and two working parents have demands that change when those three children go to university and move out of the family home. It is the same for a private chef, housekeeper, PA etc. Unless they have said otherwise, the family don't owe him a living for life.
AstonZagato said:
I’ve never had a driver but have come close.
I was offered a job at one of the banks in Canary Wharf. 16 hour days and a long commute. The only realistic way would have been to hire a driver. I decided I didn’t want the job though.
I did have a close working relationship with one driver. When I first moved to the country, he would pick me up from the local taxi firm and run me to the airport. I’d ask for him by name. He then moved to a chauffeur firm (2-5 year old E Classes). My business followed him. He struck out on his own. Again I followed him. Eventually that business imploded, his kid committed suicide, he had a breakdown, he attempted suicide. I got him to drive me in my car. I employed his wife to do odd jobs for us and the school run for my son. I lent him the money to buy another chauffeuring car. Got him back on his feet. He started driving me again. I only really needed airport runs two or three time a week. Couldn’t justify any more than that.
Sadly, ill health caught up with him. He retired to Cornwall but died on;y a year or two later.
What a tragedy.... good on you for trying to help him out. Very sad ending....I was offered a job at one of the banks in Canary Wharf. 16 hour days and a long commute. The only realistic way would have been to hire a driver. I decided I didn’t want the job though.
I did have a close working relationship with one driver. When I first moved to the country, he would pick me up from the local taxi firm and run me to the airport. I’d ask for him by name. He then moved to a chauffeur firm (2-5 year old E Classes). My business followed him. He struck out on his own. Again I followed him. Eventually that business imploded, his kid committed suicide, he had a breakdown, he attempted suicide. I got him to drive me in my car. I employed his wife to do odd jobs for us and the school run for my son. I lent him the money to buy another chauffeuring car. Got him back on his feet. He started driving me again. I only really needed airport runs two or three time a week. Couldn’t justify any more than that.
Sadly, ill health caught up with him. He retired to Cornwall but died on;y a year or two later.
MHT223 said:
singlecoil said:
What is being portrayed here is the ideal situation. It's not like that for most chauffeurs in private employment. I can remember one full time chap who had a good position with a family, even had his own cottage on the country estate when the family were there instead of their London residence. Been with them for about six years and when they didn't need him anymore he was made redundant and that was the end of it. He was still upset about it when I met him a few months later.
That guy, compared to many in the industry, did have the ideal situation - six years on a one-to-one with accommodation. What he experienced was the downside of private household employment, demands change and that is reflected in staffing.A family with three teenage children and two working parents have demands that change when those three children go to university and move out of the family home. It is the same for a private chef, housekeeper, PA etc. Unless they have said otherwise, the family don't owe him a living for life.
My father's driver has been with him for 31 years now and my parents housekeeper for 36. My childhood nanny worked for our family for 63 years and my grandparents had the same butler/housekeeper married couple for 40 years. All had/have homes for life provided as well as pensions.
MHT223 said:
....Unless they have said otherwise, the family don't owe him a living for life.
Nobody is saying they did, I just offered the anecdote as a counter to the unusual (but great from the POV of all those involved) descriptions of long term close relationships enjoyed by some posters and their employees.JulianPH said:
AstonZagato said:
I’ve never had a driver but have come close.
I was offered a job at one of the banks in Canary Wharf. 16 hour days and a long commute. The only realistic way would have been to hire a driver. I decided I didn’t want the job though.
I did have a close working relationship with one driver. When I first moved to the country, he would pick me up from the local taxi firm and run me to the airport. I’d ask for him by name. He then moved to a chauffeur firm (2-5 year old E Classes). My business followed him. He struck out on his own. Again I followed him. Eventually that business imploded, his kid committed suicide, he had a breakdown, he attempted suicide. I got him to drive me in my car. I employed his wife to do odd jobs for us and the school run for my son. I lent him the money to buy another chauffeuring car. Got him back on his feet. He started driving me again. I only really needed airport runs two or three time a week. Couldn’t justify any more than that.
Sadly, ill health caught up with him. He retired to Cornwall but died on;y a year or two later.
Whist that is a very sorry experience Zegato, it does highlight what I have been saying. The relationship with a good driver and family is just that, a relationship. Drivers look after their employer and good employees looks after their driver to the same degree.I was offered a job at one of the banks in Canary Wharf. 16 hour days and a long commute. The only realistic way would have been to hire a driver. I decided I didn’t want the job though.
I did have a close working relationship with one driver. When I first moved to the country, he would pick me up from the local taxi firm and run me to the airport. I’d ask for him by name. He then moved to a chauffeur firm (2-5 year old E Classes). My business followed him. He struck out on his own. Again I followed him. Eventually that business imploded, his kid committed suicide, he had a breakdown, he attempted suicide. I got him to drive me in my car. I employed his wife to do odd jobs for us and the school run for my son. I lent him the money to buy another chauffeuring car. Got him back on his feet. He started driving me again. I only really needed airport runs two or three time a week. Couldn’t justify any more than that.
Sadly, ill health caught up with him. He retired to Cornwall but died on;y a year or two later.
Both my drivers are two of my best mates and I have looked after them in ways employers generally do not look after employees. The relationship becomes very close knit and mutually respected/trusted.
This is obviously me speaking from my experience.
I did know him well enough to say that I needed to sleep, or do emails or whatever but I actually felt guilty not giving him the opportunity to chat.
The way it works for my friend is the father owns an airline and a hanger. The cars and drivers are all employed by the business but 2 are assigned to the family. 1 car & driver for the father, 1 for the wife / family and another when required.
They mostly use Mercedes S classes but also have other vehicles knocking about for when needed.
The drivers are also either ex-military or police and will also act as security when in the car and generally these men dump cars directly outside a building, open the door, walk them to the door of the building they're going in and then go back to the car. Sometimes there is also a minder who is with them. There's other cars and drivers for clients of the airline to use when in town but the 'personal' cars are for the family only.
They mostly use Mercedes S classes but also have other vehicles knocking about for when needed.
The drivers are also either ex-military or police and will also act as security when in the car and generally these men dump cars directly outside a building, open the door, walk them to the door of the building they're going in and then go back to the car. Sometimes there is also a minder who is with them. There's other cars and drivers for clients of the airline to use when in town but the 'personal' cars are for the family only.
Edited by ashleyman on Sunday 14th January 18:29
MHT223 said:
Ari said:
At £40/hour you must have to keep that car extraordinarily busy just to keep up with depreciation once you've removed from that £40 hourly rate the cost of the bod up front to drive it, and all the associated costs such as insurance, maintenance, tyres, cleaning, etc etc etc. And that's before you then run the business (an office presumably, a yard to park them in maybe?)
A boggo S Class is what, £80K? What's it worth after two years of chauffeur work, half that? Less? I guess a chauffeur hire car must clock up the miles, not many people are going to pay for a car and just leave it sat still presumably?
How many miles do they have at that point out of interest?
Ex-police driver (retired Class 1/2) can retire at 50ish with a full pension. You'd pay them around £12-£15ph. No need to do guaranteed hours there are a number of people out there that just want to do a few days a week.A boggo S Class is what, £80K? What's it worth after two years of chauffeur work, half that? Less? I guess a chauffeur hire car must clock up the miles, not many people are going to pay for a car and just leave it sat still presumably?
How many miles do they have at that point out of interest?
You can contract hire a new S-Class with AMG kit / pano roof / rear exec pack direct from Mercedes for c. £1250+VAT a month. Slightly less for a V-Class. Insurance £1750 per car per year. That's only five decent days work a month to cover costs after paying driver and fuel. 24/7 serviced private office near Heathrow with parking and a safe in the office for drivers to collect / drop off keys was £500pcm.
Decent chauffeur work doesn't incur mileage. As pointed out above it is mainly sitting around. The best job two years ago the driver did 0.25 miles in 9 hours. Tyres will last c. 18k on an S-Class. £800 for set. Average mileage per car is 20k PA, that was mostly driving in and out of the base near Heathrow to then do eight miles in W1 then 20 miles back to Heathrow.
Regional chauffeurs can easily do 40k/50k PA - personally I had not interest in that work.
I used to drive the COO of a large Civil Engineers years ago, went to his funeral recently though.
He had a Chauffeur originally when he was about 35, because the then COO, his father, said he didn`t want him wasting time sitting in the front driving to site meetings when he could be sitting in the back working.
I work for a family company elsewhere now & drive the senior partners & families as needed, occasionally get `hijacked` by one of the partners wives to do stuff for her publishing company, look after their cars 100% & do all the sourcing of cars for the employees who have them.
He had a Chauffeur originally when he was about 35, because the then COO, his father, said he didn`t want him wasting time sitting in the front driving to site meetings when he could be sitting in the back working.
I work for a family company elsewhere now & drive the senior partners & families as needed, occasionally get `hijacked` by one of the partners wives to do stuff for her publishing company, look after their cars 100% & do all the sourcing of cars for the employees who have them.
I have heard the tale of when Sheikh Yamani was over doing the oil negotiations back in the 70s/80's he had a new Rolls with a driver and 2 Special Branch officers as protection.
At the end of the negotiations he handed the special branch officers Rolex watches each ( which they couldn't keep ) and handed his driver the papers for the Rolls Royce .
They driver went on to run a successful business using the Rolls .
At the end of the negotiations he handed the special branch officers Rolex watches each ( which they couldn't keep ) and handed his driver the papers for the Rolls Royce .
They driver went on to run a successful business using the Rolls .
I travel globally most weeks for business and quite often employ a chauffeur for the duration of my stay in a country. My itineraries are pretty packed and the ability to go from door to door of my meetings without having to faff about waiting for taxis / Uber etc means that I can maximise my time in country. Also, in many countries we visit, we often have a requirement for protection so the right chauffeur company can provide you with a qualified CP and, when required, B4 /B6 vehicle.
Some interesting posts.
I'd imagine its just as important and beneficial for both 'boss/driver to strike a bond and build on that for a long term success if the job is more on a personal/private basis as opposed too being a professional driver for a chauffeur company dealing with different passengers on a daily basis.
IMHO a good boss is as hard to find, as is a good and trusted employee.
Julian seems to have it sussed, my last boss certainly didn't.
I'd imagine its just as important and beneficial for both 'boss/driver to strike a bond and build on that for a long term success if the job is more on a personal/private basis as opposed too being a professional driver for a chauffeur company dealing with different passengers on a daily basis.
IMHO a good boss is as hard to find, as is a good and trusted employee.
Julian seems to have it sussed, my last boss certainly didn't.
MHT223 said:
Ex-police driver (retired Class 1/2) can retire at 50ish with a full pension. You'd pay them around £12-£15ph. No need to do guaranteed hours there are a number of people out there that just want to do a few days a week.
You can contract hire a new S-Class with AMG kit / pano roof / rear exec pack direct from Mercedes for c. £1250+VAT a month. Slightly less for a V-Class. Insurance £1750 per car per year. That's only five decent days work a month to cover costs after paying driver and fuel. 24/7 serviced private office near Heathrow with parking and a safe in the office for drivers to collect / drop off keys was £500pcm.
Decent chauffeur work doesn't incur mileage. As pointed out above it is mainly sitting around. The best job two years ago the driver did 0.25 miles in 9 hours. Tyres will last c. 18k on an S-Class. £800 for set. Average mileage per car is 20k PA, that was mostly driving in and out of the base near Heathrow to then do eight miles in W1 then 20 miles back to Heathrow.
Regional chauffeurs can easily do 40k/50k PA - personally I had not interest in that work.
Really interesting post, thank you.You can contract hire a new S-Class with AMG kit / pano roof / rear exec pack direct from Mercedes for c. £1250+VAT a month. Slightly less for a V-Class. Insurance £1750 per car per year. That's only five decent days work a month to cover costs after paying driver and fuel. 24/7 serviced private office near Heathrow with parking and a safe in the office for drivers to collect / drop off keys was £500pcm.
Decent chauffeur work doesn't incur mileage. As pointed out above it is mainly sitting around. The best job two years ago the driver did 0.25 miles in 9 hours. Tyres will last c. 18k on an S-Class. £800 for set. Average mileage per car is 20k PA, that was mostly driving in and out of the base near Heathrow to then do eight miles in W1 then 20 miles back to Heathrow.
Regional chauffeurs can easily do 40k/50k PA - personally I had not interest in that work.
Have you got any links to those V Class vehicle leases? I'm just daydreaming and trying to spec up my ideal V class limo but can't find any online configurator for a UK car and can't find any mention of exec packs for it, and the list price of the most expensive AMG car is only about 55K with 700/month lease with maintenance. Just daydreaming not trying to pick holes in your excellent post.
TopGear7 said:
I'm in London quite often and recently have been frequenting certain areas where chauffeur driven cars appear to be everywhere. What stands out is the majority of the time these guys are sat in the cars watching TV, on their phone or buffing the bonnet with a cloth.
Are these guys employed solely by that client. So they could literally just sit there for hours on end waiting around?
What type of business are these people generally in who require chauffeurs on hand all day long? I'm intrigued due to the sheer volume of them all congregate in largely the same areas and streets.
Just posh minicabs aren't they? See quite a few on the way to Heathrow.Are these guys employed solely by that client. So they could literally just sit there for hours on end waiting around?
What type of business are these people generally in who require chauffeurs on hand all day long? I'm intrigued due to the sheer volume of them all congregate in largely the same areas and streets.
Too Drunk to Funk said:
Just posh minicabs aren't they? See quite a few on the way to Heathrow.
Basically. London has seen a huge boom in high end minicabs partly due to the large expansion of overseas residents and visitors who expect to be driven around but also a significant rise in workers who want to say they have a chauffeur. Chauffeur is one of those terms like executive or luxury that have pretty much lost all real meaning in the last decade or so.
It used to be a chap who lived on site as part of the household staff and used your cars but has expanded to include an Uber with an S Class.
I had a driver for a short while and it was a bit of fun but a struggle to find enough to do to fill a working day. He was my father's driver and only had 12 months to go before retiring when my parents moved away so I took him on. I bought an Overfinch LSE for the purpose and frankly the biggest cost seemed to be ferrying my wife around Knightsbridge/Kensington as a personal trainer between jobs at about 4mpg. Frankly it was a glorious waste of money and I only did it because the opportunity/obligation arose. As a family we prefer to walk than be constantly getting in and out of a car to move one shop along or waiting for it to get back round to the front of a shop. Frankly, modern apps are quicker than waiting for a specific driver to carve their way to you from where he has been waiting.
Executive private hire where the minicab firm supplies the car seems to be a vital status symbol now for employees at a certain level. The standard conversation these days on the way out seems to include the clumsy dropping of the existence of a driver and a need to be getting out of the car exactly outside the venue so as to be seen. Great fun but it really does seem to just add to all the congestion that makes walking even more relaxing and quicker.
Also, I think there is a service on uber where you can select a more expensive car and people seem to be referring to these as their chauffeur.
DonkeyApple said:
Basically. London has seen a huge boom in high end minicabs partly due to the large expansion of overseas residents and visitors who expect to be driven around but also a significant rise in workers who want to say they have a chauffeur.
Chauffeur is one of those terms like executive or luxury that have pretty much lost all real meaning in the last decade or so.
It used to be a chap who lived on site as part of the household staff and used your cars but has expanded to include an Uber with an S Class.
I had a driver for a short while and it was a bit of fun but a struggle to find enough to do to fill a working day. He was my father's driver and only had 12 months to go before retiring when my parents moved away so I took him on. I bought an Overfinch LSE for the purpose and frankly the biggest cost seemed to be ferrying my wife around Knightsbridge/Kensington as a personal trainer between jobs at about 4mpg. Frankly it was a glorious waste of money and I only did it because the opportunity/obligation arose. As a family we prefer to walk than be constantly getting in and out of a car to move one shop along or waiting for it to get back round to the front of a shop. Frankly, modern apps are quicker than waiting for a specific driver to carve their way to you from where he has been waiting.
Executive private hire where the minicab firm supplies the car seems to be a vital status symbol now for employees at a certain level. The standard conversation these days on the way out seems to include the clumsy dropping of the existence of a driver and a need to be getting out of the car exactly outside the venue so as to be seen. Great fun but it really does seem to just add to all the congestion that makes walking even more relaxing and quicker.
Also, I think there is a service on uber where you can select a more expensive car and people seem to be referring to these as their chauffeur.
And there is the rub.Chauffeur is one of those terms like executive or luxury that have pretty much lost all real meaning in the last decade or so.
It used to be a chap who lived on site as part of the household staff and used your cars but has expanded to include an Uber with an S Class.
I had a driver for a short while and it was a bit of fun but a struggle to find enough to do to fill a working day. He was my father's driver and only had 12 months to go before retiring when my parents moved away so I took him on. I bought an Overfinch LSE for the purpose and frankly the biggest cost seemed to be ferrying my wife around Knightsbridge/Kensington as a personal trainer between jobs at about 4mpg. Frankly it was a glorious waste of money and I only did it because the opportunity/obligation arose. As a family we prefer to walk than be constantly getting in and out of a car to move one shop along or waiting for it to get back round to the front of a shop. Frankly, modern apps are quicker than waiting for a specific driver to carve their way to you from where he has been waiting.
Executive private hire where the minicab firm supplies the car seems to be a vital status symbol now for employees at a certain level. The standard conversation these days on the way out seems to include the clumsy dropping of the existence of a driver and a need to be getting out of the car exactly outside the venue so as to be seen. Great fun but it really does seem to just add to all the congestion that makes walking even more relaxing and quicker.
Also, I think there is a service on uber where you can select a more expensive car and people seem to be referring to these as their chauffeur.
My bosses are not dependent on point scoring or suffering delusions of grandeur.
They have a DRIVER!!
DonkeyApple said:
...a significant rise in workers who want to say they have a chauffeur.
Chauffeur is one of those terms like executive or luxury that have pretty much lost all real meaning in the last decade or so.
It used to be a chap who lived on site as part of the household staff and used your cars but has expanded to include an Uber with an S Class.
Executive private hire where the minicab firm supplies the car seems to be a vital status symbol now for employees at a certain level.
Also, I think there is a service on uber where you can select a more expensive car and people seem to be referring to these as their chauffeur.
Nail on head DonkeyApple.Chauffeur is one of those terms like executive or luxury that have pretty much lost all real meaning in the last decade or so.
It used to be a chap who lived on site as part of the household staff and used your cars but has expanded to include an Uber with an S Class.
Executive private hire where the minicab firm supplies the car seems to be a vital status symbol now for employees at a certain level.
Also, I think there is a service on uber where you can select a more expensive car and people seem to be referring to these as their chauffeur.
People link to be able to say they have a chauffeur/driver when in all reality they are just hiring an expensive taxi service.
Its the same as saying you have a housekeeper when in really you have a cleaning lady who come in for a few hours a week and (like the driver above) works for many other people.
My drivers (and PA and housekeeper) are all full time permanent members of staff with final salary pensions.
They obviously don't live in as no one would want this and they all have their own families and lives away from work. They do however live very nearby.
One final thing, in my posts here I am not trying to be boastful (indeed I was initially reluctant to post), but just trying to give an insight as to how these arrangements can work very well, to the advantage of all parties, providing trust and respect are a two way street and with the understanding that whilst everyone has a job to do within their roles, but we all like to have a bit of fun and a laugh at the same time!
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