Gambling culture concerns ??

[dimots]

Re:

"However, you can advertise gambling as a fun rosy pastime full of winners with lots of happy successful friends. You can even give people a free 20 quid get to get them hooked."

I don't know if you are aware of this, but the Gambling commission has just placed restrictions on social media and online display advertising, on the messaging around gambling, as well as on using imagery that may appeal to young people and children (cartoon graphics, mascots etc...). Big fines are being dished out to gambling companies that infringe on the rules.

Personally I don't think that is a truly effective approach and it is the advertising in inappropriate places like Saturday night TV that needs to be reigned in.

If people want to seek out places to gamble, online or otherwise, that is their right and they should have the choice to do it, but it does seem unfair to promote gambling on media channels that people cannot easily avoid without compromising their 'normal' habits.

[Dog Star]

I work for one of the biggest gaming companies in the UK - the vast majority of people do it for fun (hence why most money is made/lost on stuff like the Grand National, World Cup etc). Would you like beer to be banned because a few people can't control themselves? It would make just as much sense as banning betting, in fact a lot more.

The number of adverts actually surprises even me, however the competition in the sector is very fierce - drop the ball with the latest innovation and you're toast.

I don't gamble (I have never in my life been so flush as to have money to risk - even a pound) but plenty of my colleagues do and seem to enjoy it .

[captain_cynic]

I'll preface this with I do not, in any way wish to see gambling curtailed or banned.

But, gambling addictions are not nice things. Unlike alcoholism or other forms of substance abuse, they leave little to no outward signs whilst doing just as much damage. Just as an alcoholic might spend the weeks food budget on booze, a gambling addict may spend the weeks food budget on gaming hoping for that big win, the big difference is the gambling addict will still turn up to work looking like they have a normal life.

That being said, the issue is with the abuse, not the substance and dealing with any kind of addiction is a difficult thing. Its a bit of a personal thing as I've got two members of the family who have had to be barred from any gaming establishment because once they get on the pokies (Australian term for a FOBM, short for "poker machine") they wont get off until forcibly removed. In Australia its relatively easy to simply ban abusers from casinos because there's only one or two in each city, but here you've got 3 betting shops on every high street.

I don't want gaming banned, first it would just drive it underground and secondly, it can be enjoyed responsibly. I might have the odd bet, usually only 2 or 3 a year but like any responsible gambler, I walk in accepting I could lose everything I put down so I set limits. So we need to target the abuse, not the gaming.

I enjoy a tipple like many PH's do... OK I can be described as a binge drinker as when I drink, I usually put in a good effort but don't drink at all on a school night. Temperance movements would love to tell me "drinking is bad mmmkay, so it must be banned" using a small minority of substance abusers as an example, I'd hate this and wouldn't want it applied to gaming.

Edited by captain_cynic on Friday 19th January 09:43

[QBee]

"So we need to target the abuse..."

Spot on. That is what the problem is, not the 99.5% of the public having relatively harmless fun, but the small fraction of a percent ruining their own lives and all around them.

It is much easier to control than problem drinking, smoking or bad driving, because all the online gambling companies have the software tools and departments capable of targeting problem gamblers. What they seem to lack to some degree is the will to use those tools/departments to deal with the problem.

So the Gambling Commission has to force them to take the necessary action, and seems to be doing so.

It's the serial offending betting companies who need to get the message:

linky 1

linky 2

One could hope that they may be starting to, but the cynic in me doubts it somehow. All power to the Commission's elbow, so that the harmless flutterers can continue to enjoy the Grand National etc

[Yidwann]

QBee said:

"So we need to target the abuse..."

Spot on. That is what the problem is, not the 99.5% of the public having relatively harmless fun, but the small fraction of a percent ruining their own lives and all around them.

It is much easier to control than problem drinking, smoking or bad driving, because all the online gambling companies have the software tools and departments capable of targeting problem gamblers. What they seem to lack to some degree is the will to use those tools/departments to deal with the problem.

So the Gambling Commission has to force them to take the necessary action, and seems to be doing so.

It's the serial offending betting companies who need to get the message:

linky 1

linky 2

One could hope that they may be starting to, but the cynic in me doubts it somehow. All power to the Commission's elbow, so that the harmless flutterers can continue to enjoy the Grand National etc

This, what should actually happen is the Online Gambling companies should have a standardised logging format to show trends, and then a levy paid to the Gambling Commission to fund paying the monitoring of those activities so you take it out of the hands of the company that benefits from people having the gambling issues.

As someone who likes the occasional flutter, everyone I know doesn't and live and die by the potential they could make from their bets, for the majority of us, its just a bit of fun, sometimes making being a neutral watching a football match, a little more interesting.

I ended up buying a Casino with my last accumulated winnings... An Epiphone Casino admittedly... but I do thank Paddy Power for it every time I play it!

[captain_cynic]

QBee said:

"So we need to target the abuse..."

Spot on. That is what the problem is, not the 99.5% of the public having relatively harmless fun, but the small fraction of a percent ruining their own lives and all around them.

It is much easier to control than problem drinking, smoking or bad driving, because all the online gambling companies have the software tools and departments capable of targeting problem gamblers. What they seem to lack to some degree is the will to use those tools/departments to deal with the problem.

So the Gambling Commission has to force them to take the necessary action, and seems to be doing so.

It's the serial offending betting companies who need to get the message:

linky 1

linky 2

One could hope that they may be starting to, but the cynic in me doubts it somehow. All power to the Commission's elbow, so that the harmless flutterers can continue to enjoy the Grand National etc

Good point, although I was thinking more in terms of the Fixed Odds Betting Machines/Terminals you see on the high street. Rigged to keep 90-95% of everything put into them. You could ID every person who enters against a national database, weeding out those with known problems. Online gambling isn't that easy to regulate, sure we can put in rules in for UK sites, European and US sites would even follow the ID rules... but what about sites from Aruba or Macau?

Even if you block access, problem gamblers will get around it or go to black market bookmakers. We'd be giving money to criminals by restricting gambling. Unfortunately, like an alcoholic, you cant help a problem gambler who wont admit they've got a problem, what we can do is make sure there's support when they do (in Oz, problem gamblers who want to change often ask for themselves to be banned from casinos, like a problem drinker asking bars not to serve him booze).

[Donbot]

There is currently a backlash happening in the computer games industry around what constitutes as gambling. Gamers are paying (real money) for a chance to win a reward in the game (random chance loot box - think slot machine). There does seem to be something wrong with current attitudes to gambling when games which have a young audience are inciting people to gamble.

[lukefreeman]

QBee said:

It’s a major problem that ruins lives. A lady I know got addicted, gambled her employer’s money and is now in jail. She has lost her home and her friends.
The online gambling company that ignored all the signs and let her continue playing for far too long, hailing her as one of their success stories, continues to make millions. They have been fined and made to pay over a million pounds in compensation, but carry on advertising and encouraging mugs like her to ruin their lives.

So they got penalised because she doesn't possess self control?

That's not right in my opinion.

[dudleybloke]

Let adults be adults.

[skinnyman]

Maybe, just maybe, we should allow people to be responsible for their own actions.

[captain_cynic]

lukefreeman said:

QBee said:

It’s a major problem that ruins lives. A lady I know got addicted, gambled her employer’s money and is now in jail. She has lost her home and her friends.
The online gambling company that ignored all the signs and let her continue playing for far too long, hailing her as one of their success stories, continues to make millions. They have been fined and made to pay over a million pounds in compensation, but carry on advertising and encouraging mugs like her to ruin their lives.

So they got penalised because she doesn't possess self control?

That's not right in my opinion.

Actually they knew the money wasn't hers.

It's like receiving stolen goods when you know they've been nicked, the fact you didn't nick them yourself doesn't make you innocent... in fact that's exactly what it is, just on a larger scale.

[Yipper]

Zetec-S said:

Yipper said:

By international benchmarks, the UK doesn't lose a huge amount on gambling. It's not really a major issue. Countries like Australia and Italy have a far worse problem.

That's like saying Typhoid is worse than Cholera. One might kill more than the other, but you'd prefer to catch neither. So just because other countries have a bigger gambling issue doesn't diminish the issue in the UK. Going by your figures it equates to an average loss of approximately £250 per year by every person in this country. I know I didn't lose £250 last year on gambling, so someone out there lost my £250 as well as their own. My parents and sister don't gamble either, so that's another £750 hit for someone else.

It's scary just how easy it is to gamble. An internet connection and credit card and you're away, and with no self control someone can burn through hundreds, if not thousands of pounds in a matter of minutes. Plus the advertising is shoved in your face wherever you go. Loads of TV adverts for Bingo websites (and without wishing to sound snobbish, those aren't exactly targeted at wealthy PH directors). Go online and loads of gambling adverts again. And if you watch any football on TV then at some point Ray Winstone will tell you to "gamble you slag".

Gambling is just a bit of entertainment.

Spending £250 on the buzz of a slot machine for an hour is no different to spending £250 on the buzz of a skydive for an hour. You're simply paying for a temporary, fleeting experience where your money disappears forever and you will never see it again.

A lot of the complaints about gambling are simply middle-class people patronising and sneering at lower-class people.

The handwringers are quite happy for posh men in white suits to gamble on forex etc. in the City of London, but they're not happy for uncouth men in blue overalls to gamble on a slot machine down at the bookies.

[bloomen]

if people want to hang themselves then let them but I can't see any social benefits for anyone or anything in stuff like fixed odds terminals. they're a clear demonstration of the contempt gambling companies have for their customers/victims.

[David87]

I read the thread title as 'Gangbang culture concerns'. This thread does not deliver.

[alorotom]

skinnyman said:

Maybe, just maybe, we should allow people to be responsible for their own actions.

Coming here with your common sense, logic and reasonableness ... ludicrous, just ludicrous!

[StevieBee]

Some Gump said:

I don't understand how the adverts are allowed the way they are.

You can't advertise a car using speed, it's bad.
You can't advertise tobacco because it is bad.
You can't advertise drinking as fun, it's bad.

However, you can advertise gambling as a fun rosy pastime

Those of a cynical disposition might suggest that the first three are appropriate due to the health risks associated with each. The downside being the fall in tax revenues from such endeavours; a hole filled neatly by an increased in gambling tax revenues.

[Zetec-S]

Yipper said:

Gambling is just a bit of entertainment.

Spending £250 on the buzz of a slot machine for an hour is no different to spending £250 on the buzz of a skydive for an hour. You're simply paying for a temporary, fleeting experience where your money disappears forever and you will never see it again.

Except people don't tend to get addicted to skydiving. So even if they wanted to go again, they'd have to go through the booking process and wait for the next available session. Probably a few days/weeks. Even if one was available immediately afterwards there'd still be a bit of a wait, during which the "high" will have worn off. Spending £250 in an hour on a slot machine could easily become £500-£750 in 2 or 3 hours.

[vsonix]

Donbot said:

There is currently a backlash happening in the computer games industry around what constitutes as gambling. Gamers are paying (real money) for a chance to win a reward in the game (random chance loot box - think slot machine). There does seem to be something wrong with current attitudes to gambling when games which have a young audience are inciting people to gamble.

This is probably worse if anything as it is more insidious and introducing younger audiences to the concept of gambling, usually using parental credit card details linked to a Playstation or similar account.
I know when I was about 19 or 20 a lot of my mates used to really enjoy going down Billy Hill's, smoking copious rollups and conversing with the old lags about the ins and outs of the Form. But as much as anything I think it was one of those things where you do it because it's an 'adult' thing where a couple of years ago you weren't allowed to do it, and parents and teachers tell you not to, so it's a rite of passage to do the opposite of what they tell you. Certainly as adults (we're all in our late 30s/early 40s) none of us are gamblers although I did have one friend who got hooked on the fruit machines and couldn't walk past one without stopping and spending up to 45 minutes in front of the thing pumping in pound coins. It was getting out of hand when he was spending about £10 on the fruit machine over the course of every pint he drank :/
AFAIK he successfully cold turkey'd and doesn't indulge any more.

[Yipper]

StevieBee said:

Some Gump said:

I don't understand how the adverts are allowed the way they are.

You can't advertise a car using speed, it's bad.
You can't advertise tobacco because it is bad.
You can't advertise drinking as fun, it's bad.

However, you can advertise gambling as a fun rosy pastime

Those of a cynical disposition might suggest that the first three are appropriate due to the health risks associated with each. The downside being the fall in tax revenues from such endeavours; a hole filled neatly by an increased in gambling tax revenues.

Tobacco kills ~100,000 people a year in the UK.
Drinking kills ~9,000 people a year in the UK.
Cars kill ~1,700 people a year in the UK.
Gambling kills ~200 people a year in the UK.

[Donbot]

Yipper said:

Tobacco kills ~100,000 people a year in the UK.
Drinking kills ~9,000 people a year in the UK.
Cars kill ~1,700 people a year in the UK.
Gambling kills ~200 people a year in the UK.

Classic