End of tether with our son

[Ari]

Dromedary66 said:

I wonder if that for children born in the last few years, with instant access to everything via devices being the new normal, whether it will be less of an issue. Since they have no frame of reference for how things used to be, hopefully the addictive nature of such technology will not be so overwhelming.

Depends on your definition of 'less of an issue'. If you mean unable to go out, socialise, get on with their lives, have meaningful relationships, have careers, leave home - but they're all doing it so that's okay, then yes, maybe seen as less of an issue.

[Tyre Smoke]

Ari said:

Dromedary66 said:

I wonder if that for children born in the last few years, with instant access to everything via devices being the new normal, whether it will be less of an issue. Since they have no frame of reference for how things used to be, hopefully the addictive nature of such technology will not be so overwhelming.

Depends on your definition of 'less of an issue'. If you mean unable to go out, socialise, get on with their lives, have meaningful relationships, have careers, leave home - but they're all doing it so that's okay, then yes, maybe seen as less of an issue.

Ari has it spot on.

My son is going through the typical teenage rebellion at 14. He has an Xbox, mobile phone,etc goes to a public school where most of his peers are treated like five year olds. We are in grave danger of raising a generation who cannot function independently. Young children these days have too much too young and know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
Whilst my boy is nowhere near the stage of croyde's and hopefully never will be, I do get incredibly frustrated by his behaviour and seeming 'entitlement' to everything even though we have not brought him up like that. We have tried hard to encourage independence, allowing him to cook, making him help with tidying/cleaning the house, nagging, etc.

[croyde]

Johnniem said:

but I could pretty much take care of a house by the time I was 14. She actually showed me then expected me to do what was required to be part of a household. Still hate her but much of what I learned was useful and made me a useful adult with consideration for others that I shared space with.

I was 13, I think, when my mum and dad divorced around 1974. I was the eldest of 3 and we stayed with my mum. I had to shop and look after my little brother, in fact even before they divorced, I have memories (not good one's ) of helping him on the loo when he was only little.

I shan't remind him of that now as he's a lot bigger than me and in his late 40s.

We were no way well off and my mum struggled and did hit the booze and depression for a while.

She and my dad taught us the value of things and hard work.

I left school at 16 and have worked ever since, I'm now in my 50s.

Meanwhile my ex-wife, who's parents also divorced at a young age, was brought up in a very well off household. Private school and boarding school, amazing holidays and did not learn the value of anything.

Every time she got into debt, and I'm talking 10s of 1000s, her mum would bail her out. She still does.

So when we split and the kids stayed with her, they learned her ways. They have got whatever they wanted and go on numerous expensive holidays a year in some cases yet tell me that they do prefer my holidays. Camping, Norfolk Broads, a free house in Wales, cos I can't afford anything flash

Ipad gets smashed after 2 months, it get's replaced. Laptop get's slept on during night, a new one is bought. Not any ordinary laptop but always a Macbook Air.

Phones are always iPhones, which are often lost or broken.

So I'm back and having to deal with all this. Spoilt bratty kids, one of whom is rapidly turning into a bad 'un.

So, yep, to the point of the above quoted, they do sod all around the house but when they come to mine they are submitted to a barrage of shouts and orders last heard during National Service.

BTW when I say I'm back, I have seen them at least once a week whilst I was living away.

[Johnniem]

croyde said:

Johnniem said:

but I could pretty much take care of a house by the time I was 14. She actually showed me then expected me to do what was required to be part of a household. Still hate her but much of what I learned was useful and made me a useful adult with consideration for others that I shared space with.

I was 13, I think, when my mum and dad divorced around 1974. I was the eldest of 3 and we stayed with my mum. I had to shop and look after my little brother, in fact even before they divorced, I have memories (not good one's ) of helping him on the loo when he was only little.

I shan't remind him of that now as he's a lot bigger than me and in his late 40s.

We were no way well off and my mum struggled and did hit the booze and depression for a while.

She and my dad taught us the value of things and hard work.

I left school at 16 and have worked ever since, I'm now in my 50s.

Meanwhile my ex-wife, who's parents also divorced at a young age, was brought up in a very well off household. Private school and boarding school, amazing holidays and did not learn the value of anything.

Every time she got into debt, and I'm talking 10s of 1000s, her mum would bail her out. She still does.

So when we split and the kids stayed with her, they learned her ways. They have got whatever they wanted and go on numerous expensive holidays a year in some cases yet tell me that they do prefer my holidays. Camping, Norfolk Broads, a free house in Wales, cos I can't afford anything flash

Ipad gets smashed after 2 months, it get's replaced. Laptop get's slept on during night, a new one is bought. Not any ordinary laptop but always a Macbook Air.

Phones are always iPhones, which are often lost or broken.

So I'm back and having to deal with all this. Spoilt bratty kids, one of whom is rapidly turning into a bad 'un.

So, yep, to the point of the above quoted, they do sod all around the house but when they come to mine they are submitted to a barrage of shouts and orders last heard during National Service.

BTW when I say I'm back, I have seen them at least once a week whilst I was living away.

I was privately educated, boarding at a top school but was still taught the value of stuff. More importantly it left me with the firm impression that being kind and thoughtful (to anyone) is of value. I don't think youngsters now necessarily have that ethic. It is difficult for parents now because of t'internet and social media bombarding the kids with whatever it is they seek. Cookies are a boundless source of 'get this now!' I was never bailed out. Broke the wheel of my first bike when I was 8. Cost £6 to replace. I had to pay it back from my pocket money over several months. I didnt get paid for doing housewrk, it was expected. My dad lent me 10% deposit for my first flat. He wanted it back when the flat was sold. He got it back 10 months later. He didnt, however, charge any interest. I gave my son £10k towards his first flat. I have not asked for it back. Is that right? In modern times I think it is. Did he expect it? No.

[BMWBen]

There seem to be a lot of responses along the lines of "kids these days" and "the modern world is the problem"...

I'd be very skeptical about that. The lad is having some developmental difficulties and young lads having developmental difficulties is not a new thing. I had them, my fathers generation had them, and his father's generation had them.

The problem is not the modern world, technology or society, it's a lad struggling with his place in the world as he grows up. The problem manifests itself in different ways in different generations, but it's the same problem.

https://xkcd.com/1601/
https://xkcd.com/1227/

[Dinoboy]

BMWBen said:

There seem to be a lot of responses along the lines of "kids these days" and "the modern world is the problem"...

I'd be very skeptical about that. The lad is having some developmental difficulties and young lads having developmental difficulties is not a new thing. I had them, my fathers generation had them, and his father's generation had them.

The problem is not the modern world, technology or society, it's a lad struggling with his place in the world as he grows up. The problem manifests itself in different ways in different generations, but it's the same problem.

https://xkcd.com/1601/
https://xkcd.com/1227/

Spot on! My dad talks about how his Aunts and uncles used to constantly moan about the youth of today and how standards had slipped. They despaired of modern youth(in 1961).

[Harry H]

I remember when my daughter was about 14, came stomping down the stairs one day onto the kitchen and loudly procaliamed in her best little madam voice how disgusted she was the the cleaner hadn't done a good enough job of her room.

That was the point I realised things had to change. We'd over done it on the privileged lifestyle front. I got shot of the cleaner and made it clear that once a week she had to hoover the house top to bottom, clean her bathroom, her room and chip in with all the other household chores before she got a bean out of me. We had many a row over it but the re education process worked in the end. Took two years mind and the house didn't look the same but was worth it as I'm dead proud of the fine young lady she's turned out to be.

[Ari]

BMWBen said:

The lad is having some developmental difficulties and young lads having developmental difficulties is not a new thing.

Is he? That's odd because his symptoms exactly match a spoiled over-entitled child who's mother has no authority over him.

Even odder, those 'developmental difficulties' completely disappeared when his dad took him away from that environment and then reappeared once wifi was re-established.

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

NDA said:

I wonder if it would be worth your son doing a bit of work experience? I haven't read the whole thread as I am dashing out somewhere....

I have a friend with a difficult teenage son and he asked me to mentor him a bit - so I brought him into my company for a couple of weeks over the summer and spent a bit of time with him focussing him on his goals in life. It made a difference.

Very difficult situation for you - I have a boy of roughly the same age.

This might be a good idea - I didn't do a great job of my A levels, mostly because I spent too many hours at a fun part time job I had plus a bit too much socialising. So I ended up repeating a year whilst working on a building site to pay for it.

My degree went very well, partially because my mind was focused after a year of carrying heavy things in all weathers.

[bloomen]

BMWBen said:

There seem to be a lot of responses along the lines of "kids these days" and "the modern world is the problem"...

I'm sure this was being muttered in the back of many a cave several thousand generations ago.

However I do not envy young folks these days. If you're feeling a little unsure about yourself then there's a giant pipe direct into your mind to let you just how st you can be compared to everyone else that didn't exist a couple of decades ago.

If it isn't the wider world, then your contemporaries can instantly needle you too, even unknowingly.

It's going to take a long time to digest the effects of interconnectedness on young minds, but overall it's a huge magnifier in every direction. I'm glad I dodged that bullet by being old.

[Blackpuddin]

Tyre Smoke said:

My son goes to a public school
I do get incredibly frustrated by his seeming 'entitlement' to everything even though we have not brought him up like that.

Might there be a connection between those two statements?

[Blackpuddin]

croyde said:

Meanwhile my ex-wife, who's parents also divorced at a young age, was brought up in a very well off household. Private school and boarding school, did not learn the value of anything.

And again. I do wonder at the nature of the atmosphere and the level of pastoral care in public schools.

[Sway]

Blackpuddin said:

croyde said:

Meanwhile my ex-wife, who's parents also divorced at a young age, was brought up in a very well off household. Private school and boarding school, did not learn the value of anything.

And again. I do wonder at the nature of the atmosphere and the level of pastoral care in public schools.

As always, depends on the school - and having seen the level of entitlement and mollycoddling induced anxiety in my two teenage sisters, it's certainly not specific to public schools...

Took a lot of work to sort them both out, but we no longer have a spoilt princess or a girl afraid of her own shadow. The key was absolute consistency from everyone in the family, clear boundaries for both actions and behaviours, and open honest conversation (two way).

Croyde, feel for you chap - but it's becoming clearer that the problem lies with your ex wife. There is enough stress amg drama for a young adult learning how to be a man, without being raised by a child. No wonder he is pushing every boundary, he's being taught the only boundaries are ones he chooses - which in itself is a massive responsibility.