Flat Earthers- what to do with em
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
"Hard" should not equate to "impossible".
As Kennedy said "We do these things, not because they are easy but because they are hard".
Kennedy had the right attitude.
Just out of curiosity, if Chris Hadfield put a video up on FB saying that he never went to space and it was all filmed on a green screen in Elstree what would your first thought be?As Kennedy said "We do these things, not because they are easy but because they are hard".
Kennedy had the right attitude.
In my case I would probably think.."Bloody hell..I bet he dies of natural causes in the next few weeks"
I am going to guess (correct me if i'm wrong) that your first thought would be more along the lines of "Bloody hell, Chris Hadfield has lost his marbles"
Your first thought would not be "Wow, maybe all those FB freaks were on to something and i have been misled"
I am not in any way having a dig at you , or trying to fight with you. We obviously have very different ways of looking at things. Vive la difference
Shuvi McTupya said:
Just out of curiosity, if Chris Hadfield put a video up on FB saying that he never went to space and it was all filmed from on green screen in Elstree what would your first thought be?
In my case I would probably think.."Bloody hell..I bet he dies of natural causes in the next few weeks"
I am going to guess (correct me if i'm wrong) that your first thought would be more along the lines of "Bloody hell, Chris Hadfield has lost his marbles"
Your first thought would not be "Wow, maybe all those FB freaks were on to something and i have been misled"
I am not in any way having a dig at you , or trying to fight with you. We obviously have very different ways of looking at things. Vive la difference
If Buddha appeared and said all other gods are made up, would the whole world then change its religion to Buddhist and forgo everything they believed prior?In my case I would probably think.."Bloody hell..I bet he dies of natural causes in the next few weeks"
I am going to guess (correct me if i'm wrong) that your first thought would be more along the lines of "Bloody hell, Chris Hadfield has lost his marbles"
Your first thought would not be "Wow, maybe all those FB freaks were on to something and i have been misled"
I am not in any way having a dig at you , or trying to fight with you. We obviously have very different ways of looking at things. Vive la difference
I think it would need substantial claims across a lot of sources to make a difference - individuals have varying motives for their actions, thousands of people individually claiming the same thing is something else.
My first thought would be 'well lets hear it from everyone involved' ?
coldel said:
If Buddha appeared and said all other gods are made up, would the whole world then change its religion to Buddhist and forgo everything they believed prior?
There's been quite a few people over the years claiming they are the only true god or prophet... Koresh, Moon, Manson, Icke, Jones...Shuvi McTupya said:
Just out of curiosity, if Chris Hadfield put a video up on FB saying that he never went to space and it was all filmed on a green screen in Elstree what would your first thought be?
In my case I would probably think.."Bloody hell..I bet he dies of natural causes in the next few weeks"
I am going to guess (correct me if i'm wrong) that your first thought would be more along the lines of "Bloody hell, Chris Hadfield has lost his marbles"
Your first thought would not be "Wow, maybe all those FB freaks were on to something and i have been misled"
I am not in any way having a dig at you , or trying to fight with you. We obviously have very different ways of looking at things. Vive la difference
Why throw out silly hypotheticals?In my case I would probably think.."Bloody hell..I bet he dies of natural causes in the next few weeks"
I am going to guess (correct me if i'm wrong) that your first thought would be more along the lines of "Bloody hell, Chris Hadfield has lost his marbles"
Your first thought would not be "Wow, maybe all those FB freaks were on to something and i have been misled"
I am not in any way having a dig at you , or trying to fight with you. We obviously have very different ways of looking at things. Vive la difference
Just show the proof I've asked for or shut up.
coldel said:
My first thought would be 'well lets hear it from everyone involved' ?
Fair enough, that is very sensible and demonstrates very well how hard it would be for a random person on the internet to 'prove' that NASA might fake some stuff.An actual astronaut wouldn't be believed if he said it!
TooMany2cvs said:
There's been quite a few people over the years claiming they are the only true god or prophet... Koresh, Moon, Manson, Icke, Jones...
I guess if it was some dude floating in the sky, impervious to harm etc. this supernatural being talked about in books etc. rather than some bloke with voices in their head.Shuvi McTupya said:
coldel said:
My first thought would be 'well lets hear it from everyone involved' ?
Fair enough, that is very sensible and demonstrates very well how hard it would be for a random person on the internet to 'prove' that NASA might fake some stuff.An actual astronaut wouldn't be believed if he said it!
It doesn't make proving conspiracies impossible, in fact that approach makes conspiracy theories more credible - there is more than enough capability for private firms to prove or disprove this. If every FE put $100 in a pot globally they could easily fund a trip up to space/edge of atmosphere to prove it or otherwise but they refuse to do this...
coldel said:
But you don't take evidence in isolation - look at a trial, you take multiple points of view and come to a conclusion. If one astronaut said its made up and all the others said they have been there (so adding the context) who would you 'believe'? My conclusion would not be a huge leap to 'see there is something wrong here NASA is a fraud' it should be 'so why would he claim this and what evidence does he have to support it'
It doesn't make proving conspiracies impossible, in fact that approach makes conspiracy theories more credible - there is more than enough capability for private firms to prove or disprove this. If every FE put $100 in a pot globally they could easily fund a trip up to space/edge of atmosphere to prove it or otherwise but they refuse to do this...
I think we all agree that the FE 'conspiracy' is probably he easiest conspiracy of them all to disprove!It doesn't make proving conspiracies impossible, in fact that approach makes conspiracy theories more credible - there is more than enough capability for private firms to prove or disprove this. If every FE put $100 in a pot globally they could easily fund a trip up to space/edge of atmosphere to prove it or otherwise but they refuse to do this...
Your point is completely valid, and i would say that the vast majority of people would think the way you think if one astronaut became a 'whistle blower'.
But there are also lots of people more like me, that would see it is a very strong indicator that something was afoot.
But that is because of my natural disposition to think that there might be something afoot , as there often is. We are often misled in order to support the governments wishes or to happily pay taxes for things without rioting etc. It doesn't mean my suspicions are always right, but they are not necessarily always wrong either so from my perspective it is not crazy to be open to either possibility.
It is not an easy stance to take, let me tell you! I would be far happier if i was more accepting of everything i was told
Shuvi McTupya said:
Eric Mc said:
Why throw out silly hypotheticals?
Just show the proof I've asked for or shut up.
Not everyone engages in discourse in a format designed to satisfy your requirements.Just show the proof I've asked for or shut up.
There is no need for rudeness.
.
Prove your assertions or just stop waffling.
Shuvi McTupya said:
But there are also lots of people more like me, that would see it is a very strong indicator that something was afoot.
What was afoot?Why was it afoot?
What's the motivation?
Every wrong doing requires a means, motive and opportunity.
As I keep saying - state the conclusive evidence and stop just spouting imbecilic nonsense.
Shuvi McTupya said:
I think we all agree that the FE 'conspiracy' is probably he easiest conspiracy of them all to disprove!
Your point is completely valid, and i would say that the vast majority of people would think the way you think if one astronaut became a 'whistle blower'.
But there are also lots of people more like me, that would see it is a very strong indicator that something was afoot.
But that is because of my natural disposition to think that there might be something afoot , as there often is. We are often misled in order to support the governments wishes or to happily pay taxes for things without rioting etc. It doesn't mean my suspicions are always right, but they are not necessarily always wrong either so from my perspective it is not crazy to be open to either possibility.
It is not an easy stance to take, let me tell you! I would be far happier if i was more accepting of everything i was told
Without taking it personally, but 'happier if i was more accepting of everything i was told' is very much a conspiracy theorists trait, but one that has gone into overdrive. Everyone has this trait to some degree, just watch question time on TV and when politicians talk some part of the audience will shake their heads and not accept it as the truth (setting aside our views on politicians anyway!). Your point is completely valid, and i would say that the vast majority of people would think the way you think if one astronaut became a 'whistle blower'.
But there are also lots of people more like me, that would see it is a very strong indicator that something was afoot.
But that is because of my natural disposition to think that there might be something afoot , as there often is. We are often misled in order to support the governments wishes or to happily pay taxes for things without rioting etc. It doesn't mean my suspicions are always right, but they are not necessarily always wrong either so from my perspective it is not crazy to be open to either possibility.
It is not an easy stance to take, let me tell you! I would be far happier if i was more accepting of everything i was told
I think most people, given the amount of stuff that has come out over the years be it expenses scandals, data spying, Trumps administration paying off lovers so on and so forth, understand s
t goes on that gets covered up. But when you step into FE area and people that believe it accuse those that argue against it of believing anything they are told, or that they are sheep, that's hugely offensive. Just because someone doesn't feel the need to challenge the validity of space flight because they see a YT video doesn't mean they are not challenging given 'truths' or that they are some sort of domesticated wool covered quadroped! 
Eric Mc said:
I wasn't being rude. I was making a suggestion.
Prove your assertions or just stop waffling.
For some reason that reminds of the fictitious conversation with the police officer.Prove your assertions or just stop waffling.
"Officer, is it OK if i call you a prick?"
"NO"
"well, is it Ok if i think you are prick"
"yes"
"Officer, I think you are a prick!"
Not rude at all.
coldel said:
Without taking it personally, but 'happier if i was more accepting of everything i was told' is very much a conspiracy theorists trait, but one that has gone into overdrive. Everyone has this trait to some degree, just watch question time on TV and when politicians talk some part of the audience will shake their heads and not accept it as the truth (setting aside our views on politicians anyway!).
I think most people, given the amount of stuff that has come out over the years be it expenses scandals, data spying, Trumps administration paying off lovers so on and so forth, understand st goes on that gets covered up. But when you step into FE area and people that believe it accuse those that argue against it of believing anything they are told, or that they are sheep, that's hugely offensive. Just because someone doesn't feel the need to challenge the validity of space flight because they see a YT video doesn't mean they are not challenging given 'truths' or that they are some sort of domesticated wool covered quadroped!
I think most people, given the amount of stuff that has come out over the years be it expenses scandals, data spying, Trumps administration paying off lovers so on and so forth, understand s
t goes on that gets covered up. But when you step into FE area and people that believe it accuse those that argue against it of believing anything they are told, or that they are sheep, that's hugely offensive. Just because someone doesn't feel the need to challenge the validity of space flight because they see a YT video doesn't mean they are not challenging given 'truths' or that they are some sort of domesticated wool covered quadroped! I know full well that i am at least part of the way down that path that you are describing.
But don't misunderstand me about this space flight thing. I have repeatedly stated that I have no doubts that the actual missions were not faked, and that space flight is a real thing. I occasionally make an effort to catch a good pass of the ISS and i am not looking up shaking my fists at it and yelling 'That's fake that is" as it zooms by
ETA: I have just uncovered more media lies while typing that by the way!
I am at home right now and 'Nightmare tenants, Slum landlords' is on the box. The landlord is driving to her property and the caption says they are in Colchester, Essex but i recognised the street as being no where nr Essex, it is in fact a street in Kingsbury, Middx. If 'They' are prepared to lie about that, what lengths will they not go too to deceive us?
Edited by Shuvi McTupya on Wednesday 22 August 12:10
Shuvi McTupya said:
Eric Mc said:
I wasn't being rude. I was making a suggestion.
Prove your assertions or just stop waffling.
For some reason that reminds of the fictitious conversation with the police officer.Prove your assertions or just stop waffling.
"Officer, is it OK if i call you a prick?"
"NO"
"well, is it Ok if i think you are prick"
"yes"
"Officer, I think you are a prick!"
Not rude at all.
Since the first spacewalk performed by Alexei Leonov in March 1965, there have been 400 spacewalks. I want you to set out specifically -
i) which of these 400 spacewalks have been faked
ii) why those that were faked were faked i.e. what prompted the relevant space agency (not just NASA) to falsify the activity
Of course, in your answer, you will need to provide supporting evidence to show why you have come to the above conclusions
Off you go.
If you can't - I will call you out as a blusterer and a liar. That's not being rude. That's exactly what I see based on what you have said so far.
Prove to me that I have misjudged you.
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