Cannabis

[Timmy45]

motco said:

Haven't the Dutch reversed their liberalisation? Interesting to find out why.

I think it's more to do with a wider irritation that Amsterdam has become a 'disney' style tourist attraction and the locals are getting fedup with the crowds.

[Shuvi McTupya]

I am another one who thinks our attitude to drugs is outdated and unhelpful.

This 'war on drugs' is a total farce and only serves to criminalise people for no good reason.

Especially when the drug in question can be produced by putting a seed in the ground and waiting until it grows!

If everyone was allowed to grow half a dozen plants or so, most people would be able to get their supply for free and never have to come into contact with 'criminals trying to ply heroin and bum sex on them' (which is a load of ste in 99% of cases anyway)

In all my years of smoking I never had any nastiness with any pot sellers, but it is probably best not to rip of a crack dealer, they can be a bit testy.

[parabolica]

Never touched it, and don't really have a thing for any drugs/cigs/drink tbh; doesn't bother me that others enjoy it though. My flatmates at uni were quite the connoisseurs; the second hand smoke was enough for me.

[Shuvi McTupya]

Timmy45 said:

I think it's more to do with a wider irritation that Amsterdam has become a 'disney' style tourist attraction and the locals are getting fedup with the crowds.

I am sure some of our 'seaside resort towns' could benefit from a bit of marijuana tourism. Seems like a no brainer to me. Make it legal to run a coffee shop and be in possession of small amounts of weed and let everyone just go there and chill out on the beach for a few days.

I would even go as far as to ban alcohol in that town just to see what would happen if everyone was stoned and not drunk

[austinsmirk]

designforlife said:

austinsmirk said:

We're all gods children.

I certainly am not, thanks.

It tickles me that someone can be so anti-cannabis yet appears to believe in a completely made up entity. Frankly you would have to be off your tits on drugs to even entertain the idea of God's existence.

Edited by designforlife on Wednesday 20th June 10:31

Edited by designforlife on Wednesday 20th June 10:33

I couldn't care less about religion. It was a parody of how Frank Skinner often signs off on his radio show.

I'm not anti drugs at all. I'll all for free and easy sale and liberation. I think the positives would far outreach the negatives.

What I'm saying is I don't mix with druggies, like I don't mix with drunks. I don't tend to mix with smokers, like I don't tend to mix with fatties- because my life interests are different.


mind you we'd be better off rationing food, looking at the state of the nation and the cost to us, rather than worrying about some waste of space rolling a spliff.

[designforlife]

Yup I agree there, the sugar tax is long overdue

[J4CKO]

Had it in the dim and distant past, cant now as wife really isnt keen and fairly certain I can lose my job if I have a blood test.

Not anti, though I cant be doing with "stoners" or anyone who adopts it as a lifestyle, if you own anything with Cannabis leaf motifs on you are probably on a slippery slope to being a Stoner.

I like booze, but I know its not good for me, but its a trade off between enjoyment, health and lifespan, I know I cant have booze all day and every day, it ceases to be special or a treat, just routine and that is dangerous, you get fat and other health issues, same with drugs.

You cant smoke weed all day, every day and function, I know their are legions of folk who do, but they are generally useless for all but watching telly, playing Xbox, eating everything and anything and cracking one off. Someone said if you are using it not to relax but to pass them time, then thats wrong.

We all need to be able to step off the treadmill for a few hours but you shouldnt be off it permanently, we need to realise that every drug, however pleasant its effects are has an equal or greater detrimental effect, we arent designed to have permanently altered consciousness, we need to partake occasionally, enjoy and then be in a position for next time, when we are totally refreshed, the extra calories for alcohol used up, head cleared, do a bit of exercise and generally just dont hammer it every day.

I have seen folk who have had such wonderful times when they have had drink trying to recapture that, at home, alone, including me, alcohol is a catalyst for good times, not the reason, same with Cannabis.

Trouble is, we are prone to addiction as a species, I am, but I have sort of worked out how I can have a few drinks and not let it be all the time, mainly as I enjoy it so much I am scared of getting a habit and ending up having to stop completely, would be the same with drugs.

I think it should be legalised and lower strengths available in in easy to take, i.e. not smoking forms, someone said that getting Cannabis now is like going in for a few beers and them not having standard lagers like Carling, Stella and all the usual, just Special Brew, it doesnt need to be utterly debilitating, something much lighter would do.

[boyse7en]

Hoofy said:

I think everyone knows someone who uses it so it can't be hard to get hold of.

I honestly don't know anyone who uses it (or, rather, I don't know anyone that I know uses it). I knew people at Uni that used and could get hold of some but that was 25 years ago. I haven't seen any since then.

Might be due to location (rural) and social life (I'm not one for regular pub/nightclub visits)

[Voldemort]

In addition to the usual reasons for legalisation, let's not forget one of the most obvious and often overlooked.

It's a plant.

Take a long think about that: it's a plant. It grows naturally all over the world.

What if they outlaw broccoli?

[GroundEffect]

"Addiction" is something people fundamentally don't understand. Things don't have "hooks" that make you either addicted or not addicted, it's more complex psychologically.

You can become dependent on Cannabis since it is a relaxant, just in the same way you become dependent on alcohol because it blurs out parts of life that people don't want to or can't deal with.

It's why people turn to drugs in the first place...(or for other illness issues, as with cannabis).

I've used it in the past, I've done the Amsterdam cafe thing, and I'm not interested. I don't particularly like the feeling of being high. I'd prefer alcohol...

...but you really can't make an argument for one being legal and the other not. Alcohol is demonstrably more destructive on the individual and social level when you start to use it more.

Voldemort said:

In addition to the usual reasons for legalisation, let's not forget one of the most obvious and often overlooked.

It's a plant.

Take a long think about that: it's a plant. It grows naturally all over the world.

What if they outlaw broccoli?

So are Opium Poppies...

[bodhi]

I would legalise it tomorrow, but then, having smoked it regularly (almost daily) for about 15 years now, I've been round my fair share of "stoners" - I'm sure many of you would classify me as one - and I really don't see why it is illegal. I've seen one case of psychosis in that time - with a chap who was already having mental issues at uni - and any wasters tended to be wasters before they started.

Legalise it, let us go to licensed establishments, have a choice and a toke and let us jabber nonsense to the person next to us in peace.

[Shakermaker]

Voldemort said:

What if they outlaw broccoli?

Good! Hateful stuff, and it would be one of the pillars of any political campaign I undertook

[RTB]

GroundEffect said:

So are Opium Poppies...

It's legal to grow Deadly Nightshade (as well as a long list of other plants that can kill humans), but growing the botanical equivalent of a bottle of vodka is illegal. Bonkers

Ironically, most opiate consumption is legally sanctioned through NHS prescriptions. I wonder how much addiction is started or maintained by the 23.8 million opioid painkillers prescribed annually by the NHS?

[alorotom]

RTB said:

It's legal to grow Deadly Nightshade (as well as a long list of other plants that can kill humans), but growing the botanical equivalent of a bottle of vodka is illegal. Bonkers

Ironically, most opiate consumption is legally sanctioned through NHS prescriptions. I wonder how much addiction is started or maintained by the 23.8 million opioid painkillers prescribed annually by the NHS?

A great deal of it, either to the Rx'd user or to their kith/kin who steal their tablets for personal consumption, see the very topical Gosport premature deaths in the news today and the opioid epidemic sweeping the US too.

[Adam B]

Shuvi McTupya said:

I am another one who thinks our attitude to drugs is outdated and unhelpful.

This 'war on drugs' is a total farce and only serves to criminalise people for no good reason.

you forgot:
wastes hundreds of millions of tax revenue in a fruitless task
earns hundreds of millions for criminals

[anonymous-user]

they are talking about raising taxes to pay nhs, but why not legalize the herb, tax it, put the growing houses in the most improvised poor parts on uk, for jobs etc. Massive potential.

[Shuvi McTupya]

Adam B said:

you forgot:
wastes hundreds of millions of tax revenue in a fruitless task
earns hundreds of millions for criminals

Just imagine the costs that could be saved if the police and the courts etc etc didn't have to spend time dealing with drug users and weed growers, and people who buy and sell drugs were allowed to declare it and pay taxes and become contributing members of society with legal businesses.

The appeal would immediately disappear for many, but lots of people would happily go legit and open coffee shops or sell to others who open coffee shops (or whatever the business model might be)

Put a fraction of those savings and profits back into the NHS and offer help to people with drug issues rather than ruining their lives even further..

I just don't understand it at all. Obviously those that make the decisions like it this way.

[B17NNS]

Had some great times with weed in my late teens. Haven't touched it in years though. Wouldn't know where to get it now.

[2xChevrons]

Shuvi McTupya said:

I just don't understand it at all. Obviously those that make the decisions like it this way.

For a long time the electorate has had a majority either 'for' or (much bigger) 'don't really care either way' about cannabis legalisation. But the 'against' minority has been **very** against and tended to be a demographic that consistently votes, unlike those that tend to be pro-legalisation. So it was generally politically expedient to not press the issue and certainly to stop short of anything that approached actual legalisation (although it's been essentially 'permitted, but not legal' in much of the country for a good while, certainly as far as the end users are concerned).

This led to a lot of politicians from Lab, Lib and Con from the New Labour years onwards readily admitting that they used and enjoyed cannabis in their youth but immediately insisting that it was far too dangerous to actually legalise. And of course in the tail end of the New Labour government rejecting the ACMD's own advice on the issue because evidence-based policy was less important than appearing tough to the Daily Mail.

The demographics are shifting (the poll in this thread reflects pretty well the usual %age findings of the UK adult population that uses/has used cannabis) and the more places around the world that liberalise their drug control laws (plus incremental change like the recent medicinal case) will chip away at the status quo.

[NorthDave]

Shuvi McTupya said:

Just imagine the costs that could be saved if the police and the courts etc etc didn't have to spend time dealing with drug users and weed growers, and people who buy and sell drugs were allowed to declare it and pay taxes and become contributing members of society with legal businesses.

The appeal would immediately disappear for many, but lots of people would happily go legit and open coffee shops or sell to others who open coffee shops (or whatever the business model might be)

Put a fraction of those savings and profits back into the NHS and offer help to people with drug issues rather than ruining their lives even further..

I just don't understand it at all. Obviously those that make the decisions like it this way.

We spend £7billion a year on the war on drugs.
A decent percentage of our prisons must be full of drug prosecutions.
A decent percentage of police activity must be drug related
We give huge amounts of money to criminal gangs (via drug sales)
Leagalising drugs wont make people turn to drugs.
We dont currently do enough to help addicts (in my view)
The UK is falling behind on research in to medical cannabis.
Since legalising drugs Portugal hasn't had a single Heroin death (according to something I was reading recently).

The above makes me think we are wasting our time. People should be able to visit a pharmacy and buy a small amount of low strength weed or whatever else takes their fancy. The profits from drug sales should go to the NHS, schooling and the police. The $7 billion spent at the moment would go a long way before any tax is pulled in.