BMW z4 3.0 for a track toy?
Discussion
Hey folks
It has been a few years since I have done track days, but I am keen to get back into it.
The car which has caught my eye is a 04/05 BMW Z4 3.0SI. I really like these cars, but I have no idea if they'd make a good track toy. My budget for the car is £3-4k, then 1k on suspension and brakes.
The whole process of turning a car into a track toy will be a gradual process, but I will be starting with tyres, brakes and suspension.
I really like the 6 cylinder petrol BMWs (I already have one other), but as a track car what are they like? I am happy for other options, I would prefer RWD but I would be tempted by a Civic Type R EP3 if they are any good?
I guess one further question would be, has anyone here had a Z4 3.0 as a track car?
Thanks all
PB
It has been a few years since I have done track days, but I am keen to get back into it.
The car which has caught my eye is a 04/05 BMW Z4 3.0SI. I really like these cars, but I have no idea if they'd make a good track toy. My budget for the car is £3-4k, then 1k on suspension and brakes.
The whole process of turning a car into a track toy will be a gradual process, but I will be starting with tyres, brakes and suspension.
I really like the 6 cylinder petrol BMWs (I already have one other), but as a track car what are they like? I am happy for other options, I would prefer RWD but I would be tempted by a Civic Type R EP3 if they are any good?
I guess one further question would be, has anyone here had a Z4 3.0 as a track car?
Thanks all
PB
I use my Z4MC as both daily driver & track toy, but it's not light (well it's not been lightened in any way) so is 1.5 tonne.
The 3.0 coupe is lighter, and the roadster lighter again - probably about 75kg lighter overall.
However, I'd get a 330 coupe.
Many more parts available, usually cheaper for the same components too...and many more used/salvage parts available for the inevitable repairs.
You can also get the 330 down in weight much easier than the Z4, and you can avoid having to wear a full-face helmet (that's the rule for a roadster).
The e46 chassis is more compliant too, so turns & absorbs the bumps better due to the longer wheelbase.
The 3.0 coupe is lighter, and the roadster lighter again - probably about 75kg lighter overall.
However, I'd get a 330 coupe.
Many more parts available, usually cheaper for the same components too...and many more used/salvage parts available for the inevitable repairs.
You can also get the 330 down in weight much easier than the Z4, and you can avoid having to wear a full-face helmet (that's the rule for a roadster).
The e46 chassis is more compliant too, so turns & absorbs the bumps better due to the longer wheelbase.
Edited by mmm-five on Tuesday 21st August 19:26
mmm-five said:
I use my Z4MC as both daily driver & track toy, but it's not light (well it's not been lightened in any way) so is 1.5 tonne.
The 3.0 coupe is lighter, and the roadster lighter again - probably about 75kg lighter overall.
However, I'd get a 330 coupe.
Many more parts available, usually cheaper for the same components too...and many more used/salvage parts available for the inevitable repairs.
You can also get the 330 down in weight much easier than the Z4, and you can avoid having to wear a full-face helmet (that's the rule for a roadster).
The e46 chassis is more compliant too, so turns & absorbs the bumps better due to the longer wheelbase.
Thanks for the advice chaps. The 3.0 coupe is lighter, and the roadster lighter again - probably about 75kg lighter overall.
However, I'd get a 330 coupe.
Many more parts available, usually cheaper for the same components too...and many more used/salvage parts available for the inevitable repairs.
You can also get the 330 down in weight much easier than the Z4, and you can avoid having to wear a full-face helmet (that's the rule for a roadster).
The e46 chassis is more compliant too, so turns & absorbs the bumps better due to the longer wheelbase.
Edited by mmm-five on Tuesday 21st August 19:26
The z4 would also be used for a Sunday morning blast, so it wouldn't just be a dedicated track car. Which is why I thought a Z4 convertible would be cool, plus I haven't had a convertible before. I didn't realise I would have to wear a full face in a convertible, that is something to consider but not a deal breaker.
This evening I've looked at a few E46s and they are cheaper to buy, but I quite like the idea of 'wind in my hair' motoring.
I'm not quite ready to buy another toy yet, as I have to sell one to make way. So I will ponder over the next few weeks
Thanks again
PB
Let’s get the elephant out of the room. The equivalent Boxster is better at pretty much everything.
Ok.
Now that’s sorted, the Z4 is a very charming little car. Ours is a metal foldy roof one (e89?) and so it’s a bit different but the salient points are - it looks quirky and to my eye really lovely - the creases and swoops are in all the right places and I never tire of looking at it, hood up or down.
Secondly, it has been tuned to a very dull edge for our iteration at least. Over assisted brakes, lots of understeer and virtually no turbo boost. I’ve studied it a bit and reckon, however, that when I get round to it I can fit the bmw “performance” brakes fairly inexpensively which have larger pistons so will give a harder pedal, along with bigger discs so it might complete more than half a lap without setting on fire. Joking. Mostly. Noted on the foldy roof version the rear calipers have an electric handbrake which means it’s an arse to uprate the rears but I’m thinking some j hook discs and better pads and fluid might do it there.
The suspension needs work. It’s crashy but not responsive or crisp. Anti roll bars don’t feel the right size to me either for proper balance. Needs attention.
After all of that, I accept that the lower powered versions of the Z were never meant to be hot rods but as I say, it’s one of those cars that’s strangely compelling but you need to own one for a bit to appreciate it and I think it would make a very interesting project rather than the more obvious 986.
Ok.
Now that’s sorted, the Z4 is a very charming little car. Ours is a metal foldy roof one (e89?) and so it’s a bit different but the salient points are - it looks quirky and to my eye really lovely - the creases and swoops are in all the right places and I never tire of looking at it, hood up or down.
Secondly, it has been tuned to a very dull edge for our iteration at least. Over assisted brakes, lots of understeer and virtually no turbo boost. I’ve studied it a bit and reckon, however, that when I get round to it I can fit the bmw “performance” brakes fairly inexpensively which have larger pistons so will give a harder pedal, along with bigger discs so it might complete more than half a lap without setting on fire. Joking. Mostly. Noted on the foldy roof version the rear calipers have an electric handbrake which means it’s an arse to uprate the rears but I’m thinking some j hook discs and better pads and fluid might do it there.
The suspension needs work. It’s crashy but not responsive or crisp. Anti roll bars don’t feel the right size to me either for proper balance. Needs attention.
After all of that, I accept that the lower powered versions of the Z were never meant to be hot rods but as I say, it’s one of those cars that’s strangely compelling but you need to own one for a bit to appreciate it and I think it would make a very interesting project rather than the more obvious 986.
Hmmm feel i need to chime in here... yes, a boxster is better on everything, bar price. I bought my e85 z4 3.0 as a track and weekend car for £3k... no way you can get a boxster for that.
Secondly, an e89 is completely different to an e85... e89 is heavier, softer, wallows... its really a gt car. E85 is a stiffly sprung roadster, and a lot more raw.
I love my z4 as a track car. Way better than the 328is and 330cis that preceded it. They always needed a lot of work and you end up driving a stripped out car everywhere, whereas a z4 is better straight out the box... lower, stiffer, less roll. No need to strip the interior or change suspension, brakes and tyres is all it needs. And then for weekend driving, you have a/c, cruise control, electric roof etc.
For the price youll pay, its a great car!
Secondly, an e89 is completely different to an e85... e89 is heavier, softer, wallows... its really a gt car. E85 is a stiffly sprung roadster, and a lot more raw.
I love my z4 as a track car. Way better than the 328is and 330cis that preceded it. They always needed a lot of work and you end up driving a stripped out car everywhere, whereas a z4 is better straight out the box... lower, stiffer, less roll. No need to strip the interior or change suspension, brakes and tyres is all it needs. And then for weekend driving, you have a/c, cruise control, electric roof etc.
For the price youll pay, its a great car!
I gave this some serious thought at a similar price-point, but changed my mind and stuck with my existing 206 due to lack of time. I actually ran a thread with a bunch of ideas, which included the obvious competitors.
The weight issue that people describe with the Z4 is largely moot - it's in the same neck of the woods as the Megane RS and S2000, neither of which are considered heavy cars in isolation. The big thing that I found on my travels was that a lack of LSD would be the main annoyance, and the solution was £1k+.
I'm going to be switching out cars later this year, and I'll probably end up with a Mk3 MX5 2.0 Sport for the same money. It's 95% the car that the Z4 is on the road (Bose stereo, aircon etc.), and probably much better when pushed hard on track in spite of the power deficit (200kg lighter, LSD standard).
The weight issue that people describe with the Z4 is largely moot - it's in the same neck of the woods as the Megane RS and S2000, neither of which are considered heavy cars in isolation. The big thing that I found on my travels was that a lack of LSD would be the main annoyance, and the solution was £1k+.
I'm going to be switching out cars later this year, and I'll probably end up with a Mk3 MX5 2.0 Sport for the same money. It's 95% the car that the Z4 is on the road (Bose stereo, aircon etc.), and probably much better when pushed hard on track in spite of the power deficit (200kg lighter, LSD standard).
C70R said:
I gave this some serious thought at a similar price-point, but changed my mind and stuck with my existing 206 due to lack of time. I actually ran a thread with a bunch of ideas, which included the obvious competitors.
The weight issue that people describe with the Z4 is largely moot - it's in the same neck of the woods as the Megane RS and S2000, neither of which are considered heavy cars in isolation. The big thing that I found on my travels was that a lack of LSD would be the main annoyance, and the solution was £1k+.
I'm going to be switching out cars later this year, and I'll probably end up with a Mk3 MX5 2.0 Sport for the same money. It's 95% the car that the Z4 is on the road (Bose stereo, aircon etc.), and probably much better when pushed hard on track in spite of the power deficit (200kg lighter, LSD standard).
I did consider the Mx5, although I'm used to a 300hp daily, so with the lack of power in the MX5, I know I would hate it. I know it's not all about power, but you do want some excitement down the straights. The weight issue that people describe with the Z4 is largely moot - it's in the same neck of the woods as the Megane RS and S2000, neither of which are considered heavy cars in isolation. The big thing that I found on my travels was that a lack of LSD would be the main annoyance, and the solution was £1k+.
I'm going to be switching out cars later this year, and I'll probably end up with a Mk3 MX5 2.0 Sport for the same money. It's 95% the car that the Z4 is on the road (Bose stereo, aircon etc.), and probably much better when pushed hard on track in spite of the power deficit (200kg lighter, LSD standard).
I've done some research and I'm certain I'll pick up a 3k Z4, fit some decent tyres, suspension (+ geo) and brakes. My friend has just done exactly this and his Z4 is a hoot.
An LSD will be an option once I have the chassis setup to what I'll be happy with
Thanks for all your help so far people
PB
C70R said:
I gave this some serious thought at a similar price-point, but changed my mind and stuck with my existing 206 due to lack of time. I actually ran a thread with a bunch of ideas, which included the obvious competitors.
The weight issue that people describe with the Z4 is largely moot - it's in the same neck of the woods as the Megane RS and S2000, neither of which are considered heavy cars in isolation. The big thing that I found on my travels was that a lack of LSD would be the main annoyance, and the solution was £1k+.
I'm going to be switching out cars later this year, and I'll probably end up with a Mk3 MX5 2.0 Sport for the same money. It's 95% the car that the Z4 is on the road (Bose stereo, aircon etc.), and probably much better when pushed hard on track in spite of the power deficit (200kg lighter, LSD standard).
I didn't want to be the one to bring MX5s into the thread but yeah, that's what I'd have at this price point. Actually I'd have a kitcar but if more practicality is needed then it's hard to look past an MX5 and I was thinking of getting one as a winter track car to go alongside my BEC for that reason! I think you can get up to 180bhp or so relatively easily with the mk3 too (exhaust manifold is restrictive so just that and a remap can do the job) and they apparently need lowering and a geo set up to handle as intended. Probably still not as good as the older cars but a lot easier to find than a good mk1 is these days. The weight issue that people describe with the Z4 is largely moot - it's in the same neck of the woods as the Megane RS and S2000, neither of which are considered heavy cars in isolation. The big thing that I found on my travels was that a lack of LSD would be the main annoyance, and the solution was £1k+.
I'm going to be switching out cars later this year, and I'll probably end up with a Mk3 MX5 2.0 Sport for the same money. It's 95% the car that the Z4 is on the road (Bose stereo, aircon etc.), and probably much better when pushed hard on track in spite of the power deficit (200kg lighter, LSD standard).
4K would get you a 5 with 200+hp so you could keep up on the straights and enjoy corners.
Each to their own. A GT 86 is under 1250kg and actually laps short circuits better than 300hp barges, but personally I found that too heavy for a truly fun track day.
As you say, it’s what you’re used too, and when you’ve attacked tracks in lighter cars it’s not normal to want more weight.
Each to their own. A GT 86 is under 1250kg and actually laps short circuits better than 300hp barges, but personally I found that too heavy for a truly fun track day.
As you say, it’s what you’re used too, and when you’ve attacked tracks in lighter cars it’s not normal to want more weight.
Pig benis said:
C70R said:
I gave this some serious thought at a similar price-point, but changed my mind and stuck with my existing 206 due to lack of time. I actually ran a thread with a bunch of ideas, which included the obvious competitors.
The weight issue that people describe with the Z4 is largely moot - it's in the same neck of the woods as the Megane RS and S2000, neither of which are considered heavy cars in isolation. The big thing that I found on my travels was that a lack of LSD would be the main annoyance, and the solution was £1k+.
I'm going to be switching out cars later this year, and I'll probably end up with a Mk3 MX5 2.0 Sport for the same money. It's 95% the car that the Z4 is on the road (Bose stereo, aircon etc.), and probably much better when pushed hard on track in spite of the power deficit (200kg lighter, LSD standard).
I did consider the Mx5, although I'm used to a 300hp daily, so with the lack of power in the MX5, I know I would hate it. I know it's not all about power, but you do want some excitement down the straights. The weight issue that people describe with the Z4 is largely moot - it's in the same neck of the woods as the Megane RS and S2000, neither of which are considered heavy cars in isolation. The big thing that I found on my travels was that a lack of LSD would be the main annoyance, and the solution was £1k+.
I'm going to be switching out cars later this year, and I'll probably end up with a Mk3 MX5 2.0 Sport for the same money. It's 95% the car that the Z4 is on the road (Bose stereo, aircon etc.), and probably much better when pushed hard on track in spite of the power deficit (200kg lighter, LSD standard).
I've done some research and I'm certain I'll pick up a 3k Z4, fit some decent tyres, suspension (+ geo) and brakes. My friend has just done exactly this and his Z4 is a hoot.
An LSD will be an option once I have the chassis setup to what I'll be happy with
Thanks for all your help so far people
PB
Go watch this video of a near-standard mk3 MX5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ3x462rlmg) and tell me that a Z4 could do that without a significant amount of work.
C70R said:
I'm telling you now, that I was in exactly the same position as you, and I've had a few cars which would have slaughtered a Z4 in a straight line.
Go watch this video of a near-standard mk3 MX5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ3x462rlmg) and tell me that a Z4 could do that without a significant amount of work.
That makes me want an MX5Go watch this video of a near-standard mk3 MX5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ3x462rlmg) and tell me that a Z4 could do that without a significant amount of work.
This sort of stuff is all opinion so not something to argue about but I do think power (down to a point obviously) is fairly over rated in a track car. When you're doing lap after lap with your foot flat to the floor everything starts to feel slow as you get so used to it. The fun is all in the corners and the key to that is the balance of the car and the weight, neither of which are great strengths of almost any BMW as standard.
Not only that but you save a shedload of cash...I was reading the thread about brake pads on here where people were spending hundreds of pounds on them and replacing them 3 times a year, not to mention the cost of upgrading calipers and discs. I've got bog standard sierra discs and calipers on my kitcar which are more than adequate, never fade and the pads seem to last forever.
OP obviously isn't talking about 100% track use so my rant doesn't really apply here but when people talk about making a pure track car out of some 1600kg executive saloon or GT car I do kind of think it's an illogical choice.
dhutch said:
Very hard isnt it.
No doubt the MX5 is a cracking drivers car, lighter, cheaper to run, reliable.
However the BMW has the 3l str6 engine, and looks bloody lovely.
Daniel
get both.... compact 4cyl in a track car & stylish inline 6 for road touring.No doubt the MX5 is a cracking drivers car, lighter, cheaper to run, reliable.
However the BMW has the 3l str6 engine, and looks bloody lovely.
Daniel
besides, you can't hear the 6 so well with a helmet on!
T0MMY said:
Surely the answer then is an improbably expensive and difficult engine swap?
Kitcars been without engine for 18months when the cvh dropped and exhaust valve and I set about 'just dropping in a zetec' replacement. Half the bolt holes even line up, but the work that sorting out the other ones is....Daniel
dhutch said:
Kitcars been without engine for 18months when the cvh dropped and exhaust valve and I set about 'just dropping in a zetec' replacement. Half the bolt holes even line up, but the work that sorting out the other ones is....
Daniel
It'll all be worth it in the endDaniel
...is what I have to tell myself as I swear at the b
d car during yet another should-have-been-ten-minutes-but-has-already-taken-three-hours jobC70R said:
I'm telling you now, that I was in exactly the same position as you, and I've had a few cars which would have slaughtered a Z4 in a straight line.
Go watch this video of a near-standard mk3 MX5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ3x462rlmg) and tell me that a Z4 could do that without a significant amount of work.
Not a problem, he would be quicker in a z4 with same mods. What makes that vid even more inpressive is seen similar mods on a mk3, on honest dyno 166bhp!Go watch this video of a near-standard mk3 MX5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ3x462rlmg) and tell me that a Z4 could do that without a significant amount of work.
Only thing with mk3 mx5 is they are a lot heavier than you'd think.
mmm-five said:
However, I'd get a 330 coupe.
We tried that with a 330i E46 Coupe with a couple of friends. The project quickly turned into a nightmare fixing the inherent flaws of that car in terms of cooling in particular. Chances are the OP's budget will be absorbed quite quickly before he has has a chance to address the suspension.But then again, we may have bought a particularly s
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