Discussion
I don't necessarily mean in the strictest sense but does anyone else here follow things like Mr Money Mustache and Escape Artist?
https://theescapeartist.me/
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/
https://theescapeartist.me/
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/
I don't follow them but I've read their blogs from time to time, nothing you can't get from Martin Lewis tbh. The only real lesson you can take if you want to live a relatively rounded lifestyle is to start saving earlier and save for longer. I know people who've retired early, some because of generous state backed pension schemes (boomer teachers and policemen) and some who basically lived a life I wouldn't want to (lived with parents until their 40s and essentially had no life or parents have died young whilst still insured).
The idea you can will yourself into early retirement or financial freedom is wishful thinking at best.
The idea you can will yourself into early retirement or financial freedom is wishful thinking at best.
A little, there are a few older threads on it but despite being strong candidates for achieving it, I dare suggest the holier than thou Pistonheads mentality doesn't actually suit it too well!
I followed Kiyosaki, which worked for me, so i find it easy to find fault in other offerings. In particular limiting your method of acheiving financial freedom to taking a "safe" 4% off the top of a notional pot you've largely saved, leads to interesting times in the past few weeks. There is also a denial between what people need (the bare min) and what they want (hence the laughable "side gigging" to get more money to buy stuff). Lets also not forget, the broad brush statements about returns, most of the yanks into this having lived through some low interest, high stock movements, with an assumption that the S&P 500 has returned 10% p/a historically. I dont buy that, and their assumptions its all one way traffic are a little like those Bitcoin evangelists. Its fine until the music stops, esp when you have little or no control.
Finally, as with everything internetty, they all look at MMM, and think they can replicate what he has, ie blogging and making off that (which is what the UK guy does, ie side gigging on top of his notional 4%, earning through adverts and paid newspaper articles, which makes me wonder if he really has achieved his financial freedom, or if he's in need [certainly he wants] more [or he'd not do the self publicity thing, he'd be sitting there quietly enjoying his time, not feeling the need to earn money from clicks and baiting]).
I followed Kiyosaki, which worked for me, so i find it easy to find fault in other offerings. In particular limiting your method of acheiving financial freedom to taking a "safe" 4% off the top of a notional pot you've largely saved, leads to interesting times in the past few weeks. There is also a denial between what people need (the bare min) and what they want (hence the laughable "side gigging" to get more money to buy stuff). Lets also not forget, the broad brush statements about returns, most of the yanks into this having lived through some low interest, high stock movements, with an assumption that the S&P 500 has returned 10% p/a historically. I dont buy that, and their assumptions its all one way traffic are a little like those Bitcoin evangelists. Its fine until the music stops, esp when you have little or no control.
Finally, as with everything internetty, they all look at MMM, and think they can replicate what he has, ie blogging and making off that (which is what the UK guy does, ie side gigging on top of his notional 4%, earning through adverts and paid newspaper articles, which makes me wonder if he really has achieved his financial freedom, or if he's in need [certainly he wants] more [or he'd not do the self publicity thing, he'd be sitting there quietly enjoying his time, not feeling the need to earn money from clicks and baiting]).
I keep an eye on the MMM site, and sometimes look in the forums if I've nothing else to do. I've noticed the "main" articles have been dropping off (in terms of frequency of publication) quite a lot recently, although that might be because I got to it quite late so had a lot already there. I think the basic idea is quite good as it fits with my own thoughts in many ways (mainly in terms of excessive buying of "stuff"), though I doubt he and I would see eye to eye on cars. I haven't tried the other one, I'll have to have a look at it.
FredClogs said:
I don't follow them but I've read their blogs from time to time, nothing you can't get from Martin Lewis tbh. The only real lesson you can take if you want to live a relatively rounded lifestyle is to start saving earlier and save for longer. I know people who've retired early, some because of generous state backed pension schemes (boomer teachers and policemen) and some who basically lived a life I wouldn't want to (lived with parents until their 40s and essentially had no life or parents have died young whilst still insured).
The idea you can will yourself into early retirement or financial freedom is wishful thinking at best.
Can't disagree with any of this.The idea you can will yourself into early retirement or financial freedom is wishful thinking at best.
Getting people to understand the benefits of compound interest - and the point about starting to save as early as possible - is key.
Making sure they have realistic expectations about the investment returns that are achievable (and the variability of those returns) is the second step.
People need to forgo some consumption to finance long term investment for their retirement, it really is that simple.
Making sure they have realistic expectations about the investment returns that are achievable (and the variability of those returns) is the second step.
People need to forgo some consumption to finance long term investment for their retirement, it really is that simple.
Agree with that. A lot of the US based MMM guys have started very young and yes some of them have very optimistic goals for retirement but they will be in an amazing situation 10 years down the road even if they don't make it to retirement at the age they planned.
They will still be 20 years ahead of most people. That can give a lot of flexibility which would be helpful to many people stuck in the day race.
I always wanted to retire early but it was frowned upon with everyone I worked with. I would say I wanted to work to 50. They used to say I was dreaming. Had to work till at least 55 if not 60. Bla.
It's only really been 3 or so years that I actually sat down and realised it's possible. My main mistake has been locking away money in a sipp had I not done that I think I would be in a better position but that's the old school advice and now I am having to work around.
One thing I have come to realise is you can live a pretty decent lifestyle on a lot less money than you might expect .
They will still be 20 years ahead of most people. That can give a lot of flexibility which would be helpful to many people stuck in the day race.
I always wanted to retire early but it was frowned upon with everyone I worked with. I would say I wanted to work to 50. They used to say I was dreaming. Had to work till at least 55 if not 60. Bla.
It's only really been 3 or so years that I actually sat down and realised it's possible. My main mistake has been locking away money in a sipp had I not done that I think I would be in a better position but that's the old school advice and now I am having to work around.
One thing I have come to realise is you can live a pretty decent lifestyle on a lot less money than you might expect .
red_slr said:
Agree with that. A lot of the US based MMM guys have started very young and yes some of them have very optimistic goals for retirement but they will be in an amazing situation 10 years down the road even if they don't make it to retirement at the age they planned.
They will still be 20 years ahead of most people. That can give a lot of flexibility which would be helpful to many people stuck in the day race.
I always wanted to retire early but it was frowned upon with everyone I worked with. I would say I wanted to work to 50. They used to say I was dreaming. Had to work till at least 55 if not 60. Bla.
It's only really been 3 or so years that I actually sat down and realised it's possible. My main mistake has been locking away money in a sipp had I not done that I think I would be in a better position but that's the old school advice and now I am having to work around.
One thing I have come to realise is you can live a pretty decent lifestyle on a lot less money than you might expect .
I think it's important to find the right balance - planning ahead is important and the earlier you start (and the more you save) generally the better off you will be in retirement. However, there is no point in making so many sacrifices in the short term that you suffer unduly, in the hope of a better future which may be massively affected by events outside of your control.They will still be 20 years ahead of most people. That can give a lot of flexibility which would be helpful to many people stuck in the day race.
I always wanted to retire early but it was frowned upon with everyone I worked with. I would say I wanted to work to 50. They used to say I was dreaming. Had to work till at least 55 if not 60. Bla.
It's only really been 3 or so years that I actually sat down and realised it's possible. My main mistake has been locking away money in a sipp had I not done that I think I would be in a better position but that's the old school advice and now I am having to work around.
One thing I have come to realise is you can live a pretty decent lifestyle on a lot less money than you might expect .
Caterham.lover said:
Getting people to understand the benefits of compound interest - and the point about starting to save as early as possible - is key.
Making sure they have realistic expectations about the investment returns that are achievable (and the variability of those returns) is the second step.
People need to forgo some consumption to finance long term investment for their retirement, it really is that simple.
Kind of where I am on it and whilst I'd consider myself fortunate and still relatively young, my god do I wish I'd thought more about this a couple of decades back.Making sure they have realistic expectations about the investment returns that are achievable (and the variability of those returns) is the second step.
People need to forgo some consumption to finance long term investment for their retirement, it really is that simple.
It does make me wonder how this "movement" will go if we are in for turbulent markets going forwards - impression I get is that you'd have to have been doing something pretty badly wrong to have not made money if you'd invested regularly over the last decade.
Combine youth, healthy salaries with lots of disposable, and a decade of upwards markets and it feels like it was the perfect (good) storm for many of these folks.
Croutons said:
I followed Kiyosaki, which worked for me, so i find it easy to find fault in other offerings. (Edited)
Really? Fault with others but not Kiyosaki?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kiyosaki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kiyosaki
https://www.thesimpledollar.com/deconstructing-rob...
I realise it's a necrothread but I was following up on some of the posts as I hadn't seen them before.
Mezger said:
interesting perspective here;
https://www.financialsamurai.com/dire-movement-del...
I like that. Personally for us it will be a mixture of FIRE and DIRE with inheritance invested rather than spent to enable us to achieve a modest FIRE. https://www.financialsamurai.com/dire-movement-del...
How expensive is America to live in? Health care is staggeringly expensive.
BoRED S2upid said:
I like that. Personally for us it will be a mixture of FIRE and DIRE with inheritance invested rather than spent to enable us to achieve a modest FIRE.
How expensive is America to live in? Health care is staggeringly expensive.
If you can stay healthy there are some incredibly cheap places to live if you do not need to work. Health care or child care costs would be my biggest concern about living in America. Free health care should be a mandatory requirement for your retirement location if your budget is any way limited, or plan to get euthanised when it starts to get expensive. In the US you'd need to be 65 to get medicare, so a long way off that if you went the FIRE route.How expensive is America to live in? Health care is staggeringly expensive.
Met a youngish US couple on holiday earlier this year who had two young kids who had sold their (rather nice) house, invested the equity from the sale, and moved into a trailer with the aim to retire as quickly as possible so they could travel the world. Both had really good jobs in the Oil industry in Texas, so it sounded achievable, but it was some serious level of commitment to make it happen.
Mr Pointy said:
Croutons said:
I followed Kiyosaki, which worked for me, so i find it easy to find fault in other offerings. (Edited)
Really? Fault with others but not Kiyosaki?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kiyosaki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kiyosaki
https://www.thesimpledollar.com/deconstructing-rob...
I realise it's a necrothread but I was following up on some of the posts as I hadn't seen them before.
For me “working” meant achieving basic financial freedom (earnings without getting out of bed > all costs) before age 30. It wasn’t easy, or particularly enjoyable. But it worked. He was cheesy, American, and many things had gone his way. I’ve met him, and where the gloss is about the journey, or helping others “see the light”, it f
king isn’t, it’s about him amassing numbers through sales.Now what I see is a heap of fraudsters who have amassed wealthy through luck (BTC and similar skank, or property post 2008) not quite getting there but just wanting you to sign up/ click/ Patreon or otherwise donate them some more of your money because they’re either not quite there with the fundamentals or are greedy. None of them have seen and survived a downturn.
Interesting article https://theescapeartist.me/2019/08/06/milestones-o...
Good article!
I especially like “Side note: It’s bizarre when people say: “yeah but the safe withdrawal rate in [the UK / insert country name here] is lower”. Errrr…you do know you’re allowed to just buy a global tracker fund, right?” - I see this mentioned a lot on FIRE discussions, like we are a closed investment island!
Of course, all this stuff is a bit of a gamble......in my case, a gamble I won’t get sucked into buying too much tech rubbish!
I especially like “Side note: It’s bizarre when people say: “yeah but the safe withdrawal rate in [the UK / insert country name here] is lower”. Errrr…you do know you’re allowed to just buy a global tracker fund, right?” - I see this mentioned a lot on FIRE discussions, like we are a closed investment island!
Of course, all this stuff is a bit of a gamble......in my case, a gamble I won’t get sucked into buying too much tech rubbish!
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