Cashless society ?
Discussion
CanAm said:
Welshbeef said:
I’m not sure what shops or garages do if a customer fills up and then payment system fails and they have no cash.
How do you retract petrol?
There was a thread on this very thing recently. It all turned very ugly. How do you retract petrol?
Exige77 said:
Do people still use cheques ?
Not written one since ............. can’t remember when.
The numbers are falling - but many still do make use of them - especially for private and personal transactions i.e. person to person.Not written one since ............. can’t remember when.
A number of years ago, the banks made a grand announcement that cheques would be abolished by 2015. It fairly quickly became clear that this was way too premature. The banks recognised that if paper cheques disappeared, something similar, such as bank drafts, would need to be used in their place. Wisely, the banks realised that the time was not yet right for such a move and withdrew the plan.
I'm not saying it won't happen - but cheques have a few more years left in them.
menousername said:
The issue is that depositors are not clients of banks who are investing and accepting the risks of insolvency. They are depositing savings in a bank, as required by law and by the system.
Only since the crash has the notion really come to the fore that by being a depositor you are actually making an unsecured investment.... previously people expected their money to be there tomorrow. Cash is / was liquid and cash in the bank was safer than under the mattress.
If people believed that, then it was because they'd not bothered to check the facts. No bank anywhere has ever been in a position to pay out all its customers at one time, and never will. You are better protected now with FSCS than you ever have been at any point in the past.Only since the crash has the notion really come to the fore that by being a depositor you are actually making an unsecured investment.... previously people expected their money to be there tomorrow. Cash is / was liquid and cash in the bank was safer than under the mattress.
menousername said:
If the law / system requires society to deposit their savings then there should be no upper limit on what is safe.
Are you suggesting there is no upper limit on what is safe if you decide to keep cash under your mattress? You might want to check the terms of your home insurance to see what they'd pay out in the event of a fire.
Of course, there's no way of knowing whether the government would increase the upper limits significantly if they did abolish cash, but I would suggest that your savings in your bank are already many times safer than they would be under your bed.
menousername said:
If we are to be treated as investors then we should be getting a better rate of return than we have been for the last 10 years.
That's a question that has been raised many times over the past decade. Is it better to be paid 0.5% on your savings, or to pay 10% on your mortgage? If I'm being selfish, then it would be nice to see interest rates shoot up to 15% the day after I've paid off my mortgage and retired to my forever home in the country, but even then, I'd like to see my kids benefit from the same low mortgage rates that I have.menousername said:
£75k is a lot of money but inflation will see to it that pretty soon today’s 75k is tomorrows 40k, and so on. Will the FSCS move with it?
Yes. It increased from £75k to £85k in January 2017 for that reason. Why would you assume they won't do the same in the future?menousername said:
What does Open Banking mean in all this- are we likely to see a situation where you are regarded as only having one bank account and splitting your cash 5 ways still means only 1x 75k worth of guarantee?
No. A major driver behind having FSCS set up the way it is is specifically to spread the risk across the banking sector. They want you to open another account with another financial institution when you reach the £85k limit for that reason, so no, they won't pool coverage across multiple institutions. If you have multiple accounts with the same institution, however, then yes, they will pool coverage, as they're covering you for the institution going bust, not the individual account.If we go cashless all these issues very quickly become a lot more relevant.
As for house moves, I checked with my parents. They've bought/sold houses eight times in the past 53 years. On no occasion has any physical cash exchanged hands anywhere in the process beyond paying for the removal men the first couple of times they did so. If you can find me an example of anyone you know having bought or sold a home with bundles of actual bank notes any time in the last six decades, then I'll accept you might have a point, however tenuous. The reality, however, is that home buying transactions have been effectively cashless for decades.
Finally, you say that if we go cashless, all these issues very quickly become a lot more relevant?
Given that the overwhelming majority of people without bank accounts are in the lower income end of society, how many of them are likely to be involved in home ownership transactions or have savings in excess of £85k? The reality is that for anything beyond petty cash, society has been cashless for many, many years, and we don't seem to have fallen off a cliff just yet!
NRS said:
Randy Winkman said:
But I'm the one saying people should be prepared to pay in whatever way others want to.
Why can't the cash people do the same?(Btw, I never take cash "just in case", and not sure the last time I ever used it outside holidays. As no one else uses it either, so I'd just be the problem maker if I did).
Randy Winkman said:
NRS said:
Randy Winkman said:
But I'm the one saying people should be prepared to pay in whatever way others want to.
Why can't the cash people do the same?(Btw, I never take cash "just in case", and not sure the last time I ever used it outside holidays. As no one else uses it either, so I'd just be the problem maker if I did).
All that matters is what forms of payment the venue is prepared to accept. Why should I walk around with cash just because someone else might want to pay with it? If an acquaintance decided they wanted to try and pay everywhere by means of offering a goat in barter payment, would that mean I'd have to go out and find a goat too?
Exige77 said:
Do people still use cheques ?
Not written one since ............. can’t remember when.
I’m 37 and have never written one, ever. I couldn’t even tell you where my last cheque book is - it must be 10yrs since I last saw it.Not written one since ............. can’t remember when.
All person to person transfers are done via Faster and have been for years now.
I will concede though that the electronic paying in of cheques is a minor miracle - done it a couple of tones recently for refunds received and on a Sunday afternoon, take the pics of the front and back and it’s in your account immediately! Much better than the BS 5days to clear carryon!
Exige77 said:
Do people still use cheques ?
Not written one since ............. can’t remember when.
Yes, unfortunately, some do. Received one from Barclaycard recently (which was unreadable by the Barclays mobile banking app !) I make a number of small ad hoc sales (bales of hay for example) where I usually get paid cash which I far prefer to cheques. Much quicker than faffing around with smartphones. And yes, all my cash transacations do go through the books.Not written one since ............. can’t remember when.
I got really caught out with going cashless when I needed a pee. I was in Victoria Tower Gardens (next to Houses of Parliament) and discovered that the public loos there only take coins. 
I climbed over the barrier as fairly desperate and was rewarded with a rollicking from the cleaning/attendant lady.
I climbed over the barrier as fairly desperate and was rewarded with a rollicking from the cleaning/attendant lady.
Kermit power said:
Randy Winkman said:
NRS said:
Randy Winkman said:
But I'm the one saying people should be prepared to pay in whatever way others want to.
Why can't the cash people do the same?(Btw, I never take cash "just in case", and not sure the last time I ever used it outside holidays. As no one else uses it either, so I'd just be the problem maker if I did).
All that matters is what forms of payment the venue is prepared to accept. Why should I walk around with cash just because someone else might want to pay with it? If an acquaintance decided they wanted to try and pay everywhere by means of offering a goat in barter payment, would that mean I'd have to go out and find a goat too?
Your idea is fine if you aren't bothered about being helpful to friends/colleagues. Good luck with that.
gothatway said:
Exige77 said:
Do people still use cheques ?
Not written one since ............. can’t remember when.
Yes, unfortunately, some do. Received one from Barclaycard recently (which was unreadable by the Barclays mobile banking app !) I make a number of small ad hoc sales (bales of hay for example) where I usually get paid cash which I far prefer to cheques. Much quicker than faffing around with smartphones. And yes, all my cash transacations do go through the books.Not written one since ............. can’t remember when.
Also, I use them. Admittedly infrequently but that was always the case. Better than sending cash in the post or where I have low security/high threat internet. (what I mean by that is Iran/Russia/China/Pakistan all snooping on the internet connection)
Randy Winkman said:
Kermit power said:
Randy Winkman said:
NRS said:
Randy Winkman said:
But I'm the one saying people should be prepared to pay in whatever way others want to.
Why can't the cash people do the same?(Btw, I never take cash "just in case", and not sure the last time I ever used it outside holidays. As no one else uses it either, so I'd just be the problem maker if I did).
All that matters is what forms of payment the venue is prepared to accept. Why should I walk around with cash just because someone else might want to pay with it? If an acquaintance decided they wanted to try and pay everywhere by means of offering a goat in barter payment, would that mean I'd have to go out and find a goat too?
Your idea is fine if you aren't bothered about being helpful to friends/colleagues. Good luck with that.
We have just had an enjoyable week in Amsterdam and I was surprised at how many places refused cash and would only take card payments,from booking the Tesla on the app to the hotel to a small purchase in a local shop etc.
As technology powers on the change will happen but not anytime soon,god knows what Van Gogh and Rembrandt would make of it all.
As technology powers on the change will happen but not anytime soon,god knows what Van Gogh and Rembrandt would make of it all.
I was thinking that another benefit of going cashless is hygiene.
You get your item, withdraw your card and waft it over a small device which beep, no need to touch anything.
Compare and contrast with a selection of grubby coins and notes that have been through thousands if not millions of hands and into your hand, then your pocket.
Dirtier than a Daily Mail link !
Stevie V had it bang on (ask your dad....)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-26...
Am sure the new plastic notes are a way to promote going cashless as they are horrible to handle compared to the old ones.
Did use cash at the weekend, my wife demanded some change to put into an RSPB collection, just happened to have three quid or so in change.
Used a twenty to get some drinks at a pub, only because had a load of cash I was trying to get rid of, I didnt tip as the guy was a right grumpy b
d, the White Eagle in Rhoscolyn for reference, not exactly a cheery welcome.
As for those saying it makes spending too easy, if you get your head round the fact whatever method you use its at the same currency coming from the same source, then its easy, plus you get full details on your internet banking statement, "13/04/2019 Pub £17.34" or whatever, rather than £2.66 in coins in your pocket, wondering where it went.
You get your item, withdraw your card and waft it over a small device which beep, no need to touch anything.
Compare and contrast with a selection of grubby coins and notes that have been through thousands if not millions of hands and into your hand, then your pocket.
Dirtier than a Daily Mail link !
Stevie V had it bang on (ask your dad....)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-26...
Am sure the new plastic notes are a way to promote going cashless as they are horrible to handle compared to the old ones.
Did use cash at the weekend, my wife demanded some change to put into an RSPB collection, just happened to have three quid or so in change.
Used a twenty to get some drinks at a pub, only because had a load of cash I was trying to get rid of, I didnt tip as the guy was a right grumpy b
d, the White Eagle in Rhoscolyn for reference, not exactly a cheery welcome.As for those saying it makes spending too easy, if you get your head round the fact whatever method you use its at the same currency coming from the same source, then its easy, plus you get full details on your internet banking statement, "13/04/2019 Pub £17.34" or whatever, rather than £2.66 in coins in your pocket, wondering where it went.
Superflow said:
We have just had an enjoyable week in Amsterdam and I was surprised at how many places refused cash and would only take card payments,from booking the Tesla on the app to the hotel to a small purchase in a local shop etc.
I take it you didn't then find any of the really annoying places that only take Maestro and not Visa or MasterCard? Fortunately they usually take cash as well though (Albert Heijn supermarket chain for one). 
There have been threads on PH in the not too distant past which were much more pro cash. I've been a big advocate of cashless for years, contactless has certainly made it more viable in recent times.
That said, I've now taken to carrying some cash with me. I had a couple of incidents where I needed cash, but didn't have any - one at a restaurant whose card machine failed and another trying to park somewhere which only accepted coin.
Since carrying cash with me, there's been one or two times where it has been helpful. Equally, there are a few places nearby that only accept cash (the local farm for eggs, a couple of nearby cafes, etc.) which I used to miss in favour of Costa for this very reason.
I think cash is here to stay for a few more years!!
That said, I've now taken to carrying some cash with me. I had a couple of incidents where I needed cash, but didn't have any - one at a restaurant whose card machine failed and another trying to park somewhere which only accepted coin.
Since carrying cash with me, there's been one or two times where it has been helpful. Equally, there are a few places nearby that only accept cash (the local farm for eggs, a couple of nearby cafes, etc.) which I used to miss in favour of Costa for this very reason.
I think cash is here to stay for a few more years!!
J4CKO said:
I was thinking that another benefit of going cashless is hygiene.
One of life's great pleasures is filling a Coinstar machine with a mountain of change which I do for a relative every now and then. However by the end of the process my hands have gone a weird shade of dark grey...Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff