NHS wastage

[andyxxx]

Nobody has mentioned staff fraud. (so slightly off topic as not strictly wastage)

There are many employees (and this applies even more so for local council) who regularly have two or more days off in the week ‘sick’.

An acquaintance in clerical is that dodgy she and the one other person in her office plan their extra ‘leave’ between themselves - they are at least thoughtful enough to ensure someone will be covering.

[rossub]

andyxxx said:

Nobody has mentioned staff fraud. (so slightly off topic as not strictly wastage)

There are many employees (and this applies even more so for local council) who regularly have two or more days off in the week ‘sick’.

An acquaintance in clerical is that dodgy she and the one other person in her office plan their extra ‘leave’ between themselves - they are at least thoughtful enough to ensure someone will be covering.

That's definitely poor management. The target is usually something like 4% across the board. Properly managed NHS organisations will hold departments to account and staff who are regularly off sick should be being sent to Occupational Health and set standards.

Fully appreciate it doesn't happen in a certain % of departments though!

[PAULJ5555]

Staff are told to save money by management while management feather their own nest.

[alorotom]

andyxxx said:

Nobody has mentioned staff fraud. (so slightly off topic as not strictly wastage)

There are many employees (and this applies even more so for local council) who regularly have two or more days off in the week ‘sick’.

An acquaintance in clerical is that dodgy she and the one other person in her office plan their extra ‘leave’ between themselves - they are at least thoughtful enough to ensure someone will be covering.

I'm sorry but this is just bks. The NHS sickness absence management policy has the formal disciplinary procedure triggered if a person has 3 periods of illness within (IIRC) 12mth rolling period. A period can be 1 day or 1 year.

[MonkeyBusiness]

Overheard on the radio in the last 24 hours was a lady who worked within the NHS and the stupidity of the spending.

She claimed that refurbishment of hospital Wards would take years whilst the 'Accounts Dept' would be getting new carpets twice a year.

This was because they felt they had to spend their budget even if it was used on things not needed.

[Downward]

Bullett said:

Provided some work management software/services to an NHS back office department. To cust a long story short we found efficiency saving of close to 200%, doing double the work with half the people. Cust backlogs from 6 months to almost zero and generally improved everything.

Cool.
Move onto the Waiting lists and see if you can double the output.

[alorotom]

Downward said:

Cool.
Move onto the Waiting lists and see if you can double the output.

No need the RTT waiting list guidance is about to be shifted to average so the wait tail can be massively extended while still maintaining the 18wk RTT target

[andyxxx]

alorotom said:

andyxxx said:

Nobody has mentioned staff fraud. (so slightly off topic as not strictly wastage)

There are many employees (and this applies even more so for local council) who regularly have two or more days off in the week ‘sick’.

An acquaintance in clerical is that dodgy she and the one other person in her office plan their extra ‘leave’ between themselves - they are at least thoughtful enough to ensure someone will be covering.

I'm sorry but this is just bks. The NHS sickness absence management policy has the formal disciplinary procedure triggered if a person has 3 periods of illness within (IIRC) 12mth rolling period. A period can be 1 day or 1 year.

You need to check your facts.

The overall average sick days taken by NHS employees is nearly 3 times the national average and if you take out certain segments within the organization that figure is much higher.

The ‘NHS sickness absence policy’ means nothing and can do little against people taking sick days. (Unless they can prove they are not sick)

[Pinoyuk]

NHS fraud as in fake prescriptions and no charge due to benefits etc .Then been sold on the private market in 3rd world countries . Enough to pay off mortgages here and any loans for property abroad . Its bloody huge . I have seen back of stuff been sent to countries that will earn £2-3k there .This is done more than once a month . Its a HUGE business . And The private sector is just as bad, Rich patients will offer staff cash to “arrange “ medicine . Enough cash to make it worthwhile

[alorotom]

andyxxx said:

alorotom said:

andyxxx said:

Nobody has mentioned staff fraud. (so slightly off topic as not strictly wastage)

There are many employees (and this applies even more so for local council) who regularly have two or more days off in the week ‘sick’.

An acquaintance in clerical is that dodgy she and the one other person in her office plan their extra ‘leave’ between themselves - they are at least thoughtful enough to ensure someone will be covering.

I'm sorry but this is just bks. The NHS sickness absence management policy has the formal disciplinary procedure triggered if a person has 3 periods of illness within (IIRC) 12mth rolling period. A period can be 1 day or 1 year.

You need to check your facts.

The overall average sick days taken by NHS employees is nearly 3 times the national average and if you take out certain segments within the organization that figure is much higher.

The ‘NHS sickness absence policy’ means nothing and can do little against people taking sick days. (Unless they can prove they are not sick)

It can and does. It sees people given formal disciplinary action in terms of first and final warnings and then culminates in dismissal over the stated period of time.

What you are referencing above is not instances, it's totality which I can believe as it's not uncommon for people to go off with stress and be off for 6 to 12 MTHS due to 6mths full pay 6mths half pay allowances - however that's a single instance and wouldn't trigger the absence management policy

[Pinoyuk]

alorotom said:

It can and does. It sees people given formal disciplinary action in terms of first and final warnings and then culminates in dismissal over the stated period of time.

What you are referencing above is not instances, it's totality which I can believe as it's not uncommon for people to go off with stress and be off for 6 to 12 MTHS due to 6mths full pay 6mths half pay allowances - however that's a single instance and wouldn't trigger the absence management policy

This is correct .

[KingNothing]

alorotom said:

andyxxx said:

alorotom said:

andyxxx said:

Nobody has mentioned staff fraud. (so slightly off topic as not strictly wastage)

There are many employees (and this applies even more so for local council) who regularly have two or more days off in the week ‘sick’.

An acquaintance in clerical is that dodgy she and the one other person in her office plan their extra ‘leave’ between themselves - they are at least thoughtful enough to ensure someone will be covering.

I'm sorry but this is just bks. The NHS sickness absence management policy has the formal disciplinary procedure triggered if a person has 3 periods of illness within (IIRC) 12mth rolling period. A period can be 1 day or 1 year.

You need to check your facts.

The overall average sick days taken by NHS employees is nearly 3 times the national average and if you take out certain segments within the organization that figure is much higher.

The ‘NHS sickness absence policy’ means nothing and can do little against people taking sick days. (Unless they can prove they are not sick)

It can and does. It sees people given formal disciplinary action in terms of first and final warnings and then culminates in dismissal over the stated period of time.

What you are referencing above is not instances, it's totality which I can believe as it's not uncommon for people to go off with stress and be off for 6 to 12 MTHS due to 6mths full pay 6mths half pay allowances - however that's a single instance and wouldn't trigger the absence management policy

My ex got into trouble for having too many sick days in the NHS, the time when she got pulled up about it, was after a time she had been admitted for a few days into the ward directly opposite the one she worked in with severe abdominal pains, so it's not as if she was doing the whole phoning up sick with a hangover after a bank holiday weekend, but she still got reprimanded for it.

I do believe there are serial malingers who work in the NHS, it's the same in any organisation, people who'll milk it as much as possible, but to suggest so is tantamount to heresy, everyone who works for the NHS is an angel don't you know.

[Jim the Sunderer]

I think they're still paying for an Office 365 account in my name from 2015 that I didn't even need in the first place.

[CS Garth]

As this thread shows the NHS is essentially being pilfered left, right and centre. By the public and by a significant minority of those it employs/contracts with.

People say it’s just a few pills here and there that they are entitled to but if the time and materials cost involved is multiplied up it totals billions.

Ironically those involved are often those who are most vocal about st service and moan about others leaching from the Govt.

Here’s a thought: just because you are entitled to something it doesn’t mean you should take it.

Paracetamol/sick days/items knicked from work/free lunches.

Sick days piss me off the most - some people seem to think they are due one every month or more often as a right - lazy bds who are the first to moan about U.K. plc or their lack of pay rises whilst doing fk all to justify them.

Change starts with the small actions of each individual. Until people make that change themselves they need to stop moaning.

[MonkeyBusiness]

CS Garth said:

Sick days piss me off the most - some people seem to think they are due one every month or more often as a right - lazy bds who are the first to moan about U.K. plc or their lack of pay rises whilst doing fk all to justify them.

Same in the prison service. I once knew someone who said "I get x amount of days holiday plus x days paid sick leave"

[MrGman]

Something else I never understand is medical exemption cards.

I've got one as i need to take life long medication, this means i don't have to pay for it which is great, but it also works for any prescription i'm prescribed now.
Surely exemption cards should just cover life long medications, and not be allowed for short term medication?

[spaximus]

MrGman said:

Something else I never understand is medical exemption cards.

I've got one as i need to take life long medication, this means i don't have to pay for it which is great, but it also works for any prescription i'm prescribed now.
Surely exemption cards should just cover life long medications, and not be allowed for short term medication?

I was given one for a condition I had. When I questioned that it included all medication I was told it was impossible to differentiate between drugs and chemists that could be used and the different prescriptions. So cheaper just to allow it

Fortunately I am not a sickly person but the costs can be huge.

[dave_s13]

MonkeyBusiness said:

CS Garth said:

Sick days piss me off the most - some people seem to think they are due one every month or more often as a right - lazy bds who are the first to moan about U.K. plc or their lack of pay rises whilst doing fk all to justify them.

Same in the prison service. I once knew someone who said "I get x amount of days holiday plus x days paid sick leave"

I've worked for the NHS in primary care for nearly 16 years. I just could not get away with having random days off sick. Once you get to 3 in a 12month period it triggers the process, we have had people lose there jobs due to this in the past. So you're comment is bks as far as I'm concerned.

Ps.... I haven't had a day off for nearly 18months now and that was only 2days when I fked my back up, had a wicked reaction to cocodamol and passed out. Yes, I need a medal or something.

[CS Garth]

A quick google shows that average NHS staff sickness ran at 14 days per capita last year (doctors under 3 however).

Did you work for an agency perhaps?

Edit: I would add that I accept that much of this is extreme pressure but I think this can often mask other institutional behavioural problems

Edited by CS Garth on Tuesday 12th November 21:02

[dave_s13]

Nope, never been agency.

I'd wager you might get more sickness in the non professional/lower band roles that drags down the average....that's pure speculation though.