Will we end up renting EVERYTHING ?
Discussion
mikeiow said:
Wacky Racer said:
If it appreciates buy it
If it depreciates rent/lease it
I think Bernie Ecclestone once said “if it flies, floats or fIf it depreciates rent/lease it
ks: rent it”But yes.....modern society dictates thou shalt rent.
Microsoft Office? 365, that’ll be £80 a year....
I’m reaching the stage I don’t want to change anything now, for fear of falling into a rental trap
In my business over 15 years we bought 3 versions of Sage Accounting software at a total cost of about £2 - £2.5K. It did everything we needed, we never needed any of the "additional functionality".
With the advent of "Making Tax Digital" Sage have forced everyone onto a rental model . It now costs us the best part of £500 per year
and it does NOTHING we couldn't do before (except send HMRC much more data every time we file a VAT return!).colin_p said:
In those good old days, I used to rent my tv and washing machine and reckon I saved overall as things used to go wrong a lot more back then.
Even further back I remember TV's where you had to put a 50p coin in them.
My father used to rent TVs out. Part of the deal was an upgrade every 2 years. No one took him up on it even when we encouraged them to. I think it just wasnt English to do so. TVs 20-30 years ago cost more than they do today even ignoring inflation. But, we had TVs that had made 10k pounds (don’t have pound sign on keyboard) at which point we would let them keep it. In some cases we switched it out with a brand new one and then told them it was theirs to keep. Even further back I remember TV's where you had to put a 50p coin in them.
We also did “slot TVs” that ran on various denominations of coins. For some reason I was always less comfortable with this because we had to go in their house to empty the coin box. It felt like we were debt collecting. At some point we disconnected the coin machines and let them keep the TVs.
Edited by h0b0 on Saturday 25th January 00:23
Wombat3 said:
Renting stuff you can't afford to buy is OK. Being forced to rent stuff you'd rather buy is a PITA.
In my business over 15 years we bought 3 versions of Sage Accounting software at a total cost of about £2 - £2.5K. It did everything we needed, we never needed any of the "additional functionality".
With the advent of "Making Tax Digital" Sage have forced everyone onto a rental model . It now costs us the best part of £500 per year and it does NOTHING we couldn't do before (except send HMRC much more data every time we file a VAT return!).
I still use Quicken 2000.....haven’t found anything that does what we need as easily or clearly In my business over 15 years we bought 3 versions of Sage Accounting software at a total cost of about £2 - £2.5K. It did everything we needed, we never needed any of the "additional functionality".
With the advent of "Making Tax Digital" Sage have forced everyone onto a rental model . It now costs us the best part of £500 per year
and it does NOTHING we couldn't do before (except send HMRC much more data every time we file a VAT return!).You can't call it renting a car in that sense. It's leasing.
People get very tetchy on here about it being called renting.
Leasing. Or PCP'ing if you will.
..even though it is renting.
Do you really own anything anyway?
As my friend Patek said, you never really own anything, you just pass it on to the next generation.
People get very tetchy on here about it being called renting.
Leasing. Or PCP'ing if you will.
..even though it is renting.
Do you really own anything anyway?
As my friend Patek said, you never really own anything, you just pass it on to the next generation.
What's the difference between 'renting' your TV service by paying monthly, and 'owning' a house by paying your mortgage monthly?
Paying a tv license once a year doesn't mean you own it.
We are moving, globally, to a subscription-based model. Whilst this will negate the 'ownership' model, it will facilitate a more representative pay-at-the-point-of-use model.
We currently subscribe to tv, movies, music and software. The UK property market is a perfect example of how the ownership model is not a long-term proposition. Pay on demand is the future.
Paying a tv license once a year doesn't mean you own it.
We are moving, globally, to a subscription-based model. Whilst this will negate the 'ownership' model, it will facilitate a more representative pay-at-the-point-of-use model.
We currently subscribe to tv, movies, music and software. The UK property market is a perfect example of how the ownership model is not a long-term proposition. Pay on demand is the future.
h0b0 said:
We also did “slot TVs” that ran on various denominations of coins. For some reason I was always less comfortable with this because we had to go in their house to empty the coin box. It felt like we were debt collecting. At some point we disconnected the coin machines and let them keep the TVs.
This always struck me as an odd business model. I assume the coin thing was because of poor credit, so they would have to pay up front for the TV usage. But the asset is not going to make any money if it is just sat their in their living room not being used. Was there a minimum amount they would have to spend otherwise you would take it away?Edited by h0b0 on Saturday 25th January 00:23
The only place I could see a coin operated TV working is in a hotel room.
Doofus said:
What's the difference between 'renting' your TV service by paying monthly, and 'owning' a house by paying your mortgage monthly?
I think the big appeal of a mortgage is that eventually it will end and there are no more payments to make, but you can still live in your house. If you stop paying your Netflix subscription, they stop sending you their service.paulguitar said:
Doofus said:
What's the difference between 'renting' your TV service by paying monthly, and 'owning' a house by paying your mortgage monthly?
I think the big appeal of a mortgage is that eventually it will end and there are no more payments to make, but you can still live in your house. If you stop paying your Netflix subscription, they stop sending you their service.The rental model worries me insofar as I believe it encourages consumer (over)spending, it might be a cliche but the white Audis and brand new iPhones popping up everywhere are clearly a reflection of that.
It’s all fine as long as people are in employment and can cover their various rental payments, but it will only take I think a small decline in employment levels for a big snowball effect to occur. The credit cycle has been far too benign for far too long, and it will unravel starting from all this consumer spending.
Other consequence that I’m not clear about: what happens to asset prices longer term when all these rented cars, electronics, appliances are returned and swapped for newer models?
Is there sufficient demand for all this second hand stuff?
It’s all fine as long as people are in employment and can cover their various rental payments, but it will only take I think a small decline in employment levels for a big snowball effect to occur. The credit cycle has been far too benign for far too long, and it will unravel starting from all this consumer spending.
Other consequence that I’m not clear about: what happens to asset prices longer term when all these rented cars, electronics, appliances are returned and swapped for newer models?
Is there sufficient demand for all this second hand stuff?
Rostfritt said:
h0b0 said:
We also did “slot TVs” that ran on various denominations of coins. For some reason I was always less comfortable with this because we had to go in their house to empty the coin box. It felt like we were debt collecting. At some point we disconnected the coin machines and let them keep the TVs.
This always struck me as an odd business model. I assume the coin thing was because of poor credit, so they would have to pay up front for the TV usage. But the asset is not going to make any money if it is just sat their in their living room not being used. Was there a minimum amount they would have to spend otherwise you would take it away?Edited by h0b0 on Saturday 25th January 00:23
The only place I could see a coin operated TV working is a hotel room.
I seem to recall we had somewhere around 10k assets rented out with everyone having to come to the shops we owned to pay weekly or monthly. We ended up buying a PC for 30k pounds to track all the payments. We did have people getting behind with their monthlies but they almost always paid up. On some rare occasions we had to collect the TVs and videos.
The main point was that it wasn’t a reflection or indication on people’s position in society if they rented or bought 30 years ago. It came from the TVs being so expensive compared to today.
h0b0 said:
colin_p said:
In those good old days, I used to rent my tv and washing machine and reckon I saved overall as things used to go wrong a lot more back then.
Even further back I remember TV's where you had to put a 50p coin in them.
My father used to rent TVs out. Part of the deal was an upgrade every 2 years. No one took him up on it even when we encouraged them to. I think it just wasnt English to do so. TVs 20-30 years ago cost more than they do today even ignoring inflation. But, we had TVs that had made 10k pounds (don’t have pound sign on keyboard) at which point we would let them keep it. In some cases we switched it out with a brand new one and then told them it was theirs to keep. Even further back I remember TV's where you had to put a 50p coin in them.
We also did “slot TVs” that ran on various denominations of coins. For some reason I was always less comfortable with this because we had to go in their house to empty the coin box. It felt like we were debt collecting. At some point we disconnected the coin machines and let them keep the TVs.
Edited by h0b0 on Saturday 25th January 00:23
He recalls that most people rented or were upgrading from a 1950's coin operated TV which they used to cut up bits of tin cans and ram them into the slot when they ran out of coins. He also says the owner ( who later went bankrupt and owed the Sanyo Radio Company £300k) always tried to convince customers to buy their televisions outright despite about 90% signing rental agreements.
He says he was sent round to some local hard mans house to take his TV back because he failed to pay a few months rental. My father knew the guy in question so he called round to say ' the owner says you owe him X amount, but it's nothing to do with me, I'm just the messenger.' The next day the man threw the television through the front window of the shop.
He rejoices at the time this elderly couple walked in and wise to the owners charms when he told them " I'm a millionaire from selling televisions you know"
The elderly man apparently put his arm on the owners shoulder and said " well you don't need our money then" and they walked out and left him standing in his own shadow.
Edited by EarlofDrift on Saturday 25th January 01:49
matrignano said:
The rental model worries me insofar as I believe it encourages consumer (over)spending, it might be a cliche but the white Audis and brand new iPhones popping up everywhere are clearly a reflection of that.
It’s all fine as long as people are in employment and can cover their various rental payments, but it will only take I think a small decline in employment levels for a big snowball effect to occur. The credit cycle has been far too benign for far too long, and it will unravel starting from all this consumer spending.
Other consequence that I’m not clear about: what happens to asset prices longer term when all these rented cars, electronics, appliances are returned and swapped for newer models?
Is there sufficient demand for all this second hand stuff?
The price of the ex rental assets must fall to the point at which there are willing buyers.It’s all fine as long as people are in employment and can cover their various rental payments, but it will only take I think a small decline in employment levels for a big snowball effect to occur. The credit cycle has been far too benign for far too long, and it will unravel starting from all this consumer spending.
Other consequence that I’m not clear about: what happens to asset prices longer term when all these rented cars, electronics, appliances are returned and swapped for newer models?
Is there sufficient demand for all this second hand stuff?
matrignano said:
Other consequence that I’m not clear about: what happens to asset prices longer term when all these rented cars, electronics, appliances are returned and swapped for newer models?
Is there sufficient demand for all this second hand stuff?
They get sent for ''short term storage'' at Bruntingthorpe so as to not flood the market and keep the price artificially high.Is there sufficient demand for all this second hand stuff?
grumbledoak said:
We are certainly being pushed that way. It will cost us more in the long run, paying money for old rope, and of course you're fked as soon as you retire and can leave no assets to your kids. Joy.
Watch the rich plan round it while it bleeds the rest of us dry.
What if you don't have kids? Or think they should find their own way in life rather than have something they didn't earn or contribute to? This may surprise you, but you can't take things with you when you die. I'm planning to have a net estate value of zero when I die and lived life enjoying spending my money however I see fit. ked as soon as you retire and can leave no assets to your kids. Joy.Watch the rich plan round it while it bleeds the rest of us dry.
Owning houses, cars etc is not going anywhere. I think it's great we have the choice to buy, lease or rent things. What would the UK look like if the ability to borrow money to buy things was completely removed? The wealthy who have handed down money for generations would be fine. Most others would be f
ked.I'd love to see 100% unavoidable inheritance tax over say £50k btw
It's all part of a wider plan. Got to keep the worker bees going for longer and longer and the taxes will keep flowing in.
Rent your car, phone, TV, sofas, gym memberships etc. Add subscriptions for music, films etc and you very quickly slide on to the hook for a good amount every month that is very difficult to get away from. But hey you have 'rented' lots of new shiny stuff so that's cool and of course your life is now more complete
Keep the very effective (and old as the hills) illusion of aspirational marketing of 'stuff' you don't need but your neighbours have so you now want it. And surely you must also be entitled? You work hard and deserve it. And it's only a couple of hundred £ a month more so why not!
Add easy access cheap credit (aka debt) to the mix for the holidays and daily coffees and treats to keep the personal debt rising at the same time and before you know it you are stuck. Forever.
Still think that shiny A4, new iPhone and your 'gold' debt card are worth being caught in the trap forever?
Rent your car, phone, TV, sofas, gym memberships etc. Add subscriptions for music, films etc and you very quickly slide on to the hook for a good amount every month that is very difficult to get away from. But hey you have 'rented' lots of new shiny stuff so that's cool and of course your life is now more complete
Keep the very effective (and old as the hills) illusion of aspirational marketing of 'stuff' you don't need but your neighbours have so you now want it. And surely you must also be entitled? You work hard and deserve it. And it's only a couple of hundred £ a month more so why not!
Add easy access cheap credit (aka debt) to the mix for the holidays and daily coffees and treats to keep the personal debt rising at the same time and before you know it you are stuck. Forever.
Still think that shiny A4, new iPhone and your 'gold' debt card are worth being caught in the trap forever?
paulguitar said:
Doofus said:
What's the difference between 'renting' your TV service by paying monthly, and 'owning' a house by paying your mortgage monthly?
I think the big appeal of a mortgage is that eventually it will end and there are no more payments to make, but you can still live in your house. If you stop paying your Netflix subscription, they stop sending you their service.I think there is a big move towards it.
Having said that we tend to live by a mantra of if we can't afford it we don't have it. We have been fortunate enough to provision for our eldest 2 daughters so that they can get onto the property ladders.
Both own their own cars
The software things an interesting one as I can think of loads of folk who are using Office 365. The comment about phones is valid too. Though would counter that a lot of the schemes are geared towards you owning the phone in 24 or 36 months or whatever.
Having said that there is a bit of a push towards Mobile Phone leasing. I was involved in mobile business for several years and still have some friends involved in it and get the trade paper each month.
Quite a few of them have been contacted about leasing mobiles to companies etc
Having said that we tend to live by a mantra of if we can't afford it we don't have it. We have been fortunate enough to provision for our eldest 2 daughters so that they can get onto the property ladders.
Both own their own cars
The software things an interesting one as I can think of loads of folk who are using Office 365. The comment about phones is valid too. Though would counter that a lot of the schemes are geared towards you owning the phone in 24 or 36 months or whatever.
Having said that there is a bit of a push towards Mobile Phone leasing. I was involved in mobile business for several years and still have some friends involved in it and get the trade paper each month.
Quite a few of them have been contacted about leasing mobiles to companies etc
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