Ghosts

[Sheets Tabuer]

I had a book many years ago that I seemed to have lost which was about the psychology of peoples experiences, it boiled down to the human mind being very much tuned towards two scenarios. Firstly facial recognition, it was and I suppose still is extremely important for us to recognise peoples faces, their expressions can give us a million different clues about their intentions way before they act which is why we smile, frown or whatever. The human mind is constantly trying to work out intentions from what it sees, think of a computer running through thousands of photographs in a TV show trying to find a match, which is why people see faces out of the corner of their eye or a quick glance at a window, a second longer look gives the mind time to process more information and it becomes clear to it a face isn't there.

The second was low light detection of threats which again tries to match up shapes it sees in the darkness, imagining a shape coming at you through the bushes might very well save your life be it a real threat or not however the downside is it may convince you a little girl is running across the landing at 2am. Convincing the mind of others who may have witnessed something becomes very easy when their mind hasn't had the time to process what they saw.

[Sticks.]

smn159 said:

Surely anything interacting with the physical world - being observed walking through walls / making rooms cold etc - is by definition existential.

For your second point, I have no idea - although studies show that people tend to believe that they see / experience what they expect. So ghosts appear to people who 'believe' in them and expect to see them.

Worth remembering too that the brain provides you with a version of reality which appears very real and continuous, but is largely created internally with very limited sensory input. It's easy to see how it can be fooled.

Whether something walks through a wall or is perceived to is probably the difference. How we know what we know is an interesting subject and we're very much limited by the range of our senses.

Agreed, some people will believe in anything, but there are a lot of stories from cynics, eg A35 van/woman cycling, for it to cover all cases.

Yes, it could well be all inside our brain but as I said, people separately having similar 'experiences' implies something prompting that, and it'd be interesting to study that.

[conkerman]

Paraedolia. A powerful tool for threat detection from an evolutionary perspective.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

BT Summers said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

You have no personal experience of the bottom of my garden. So the fairies I claim are living there, what's your take on that?

If you want to write about the fairies in your garden then that is your choice, it is not up to me to tell you that you are a liar or tell you what you may actually be seeing.

Well someone has to do it. Someone needs to explain to me that no matter what I think I saw, it wasn't fairies. If that offends me, makes me defensive, hurts my feelings, that's my issue, not the person who is doing their best to talk sense to me.

Just because I'm offended doesn't make me right.

[Stick Legs]

Sheets Tabuer said:

I had a book many years ago that I seemed to have lost which was about the psychology of peoples experiences, it boiled down to the human mind being very much tuned towards two scenarios. Firstly facial recognition, it was and I suppose still is extremely important for us to recognise peoples faces, their expressions can give us a million different clues about their intentions way before they act which is why we smile, frown or whatever. The human mind is constantly trying to work out intentions from what it sees, think of a computer running through thousands of photographs in a TV show trying to find a match, which is why people see faces out of the corner of their eye or a quick glance at a window, a second longer look gives the mind time to process more information and it becomes clear to it a face isn't there.

The second was low light detection of threats which again tries to match up shapes it sees in the darkness, imagining a shape coming at you through the bushes might very well save your life be it a real threat or not however the downside is it may convince you a little girl is running across the landing at 2am. Convincing the mind of others who may have witnessed something becomes very easy when their mind hasn't had the time to process what they saw.

Absolutely, the cynics wouldn't last very long in the wild.

[BT Summers]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

BT Summers said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

You have no personal experience of the bottom of my garden. So the fairies I claim are living there, what's your take on that?

If you want to write about the fairies in your garden then that is your choice, it is not up to me to tell you that you are a liar or tell you what you may actually be seeing.

Well someone has to do it. Someone needs to explain to me that no matter what I think I saw, it wasn't fairies. If that offends me, makes me defensive, hurts my feelings, that's my issue, not the person who is doing their best to talk sense to me.

Just because I'm offended doesn't make me right.

Say what you want do what you want, People can say you are an idiot, people can say what they want about you, including being mental or deluded.

Be offended, be criticised.

Most importantly, don't post, don't share.

Your opening two sentences are wrong. No one has to do it, No one has any need to explain anything,

You participate out of personal choice and therefore accept that the people who have kno knowledge, experience or understand will take apart everything that you say because you are a soft target and they have nothing better to do,

The beauty of it all is that you are wasting each others time with no outcome in either direction.

Unlike me, who is leaving you all to your pointless discussions.

[Leftyechochamber]

BT Summers said:

Say what you want do what you want, People can say you are an idiot, people can say what they want about you, including being mental or deluded.

Be offended, be criticised.

Most importantly, don't post, don't share.

Your opening two sentences are wrong. No one has to do it, No one has any need to explain anything,

You participate out of personal choice and therefore accept that the people who have kno knowledge, experience or understand will take apart everything that you say because you are a soft target and they have nothing better to do,

The beauty of it all is that you are wasting each others time with no outcome in either direction.

Unlike me, who is leaving you all to your pointless discussions.

The thread is much better if you just scroll past the dull posts from the usual suspects.

[paulguitar]

Leftyechochamber said:

The thread is much better if you just scroll past the dull posts from the usual suspects.

I see it as a sort of 'twin thread'. There are some good ghost stories, which I think most of us like, and some interesting discussion regarding the psychology of why this happens in the human brain.

[M5-911]

Leftyechochamber said:

BT Summers said:

Say what you want do what you want, People can say you are an idiot, people can say what they want about you, including being mental or deluded.

Be offended, be criticised.

Most importantly, don't post, don't share.

Your opening two sentences are wrong. No one has to do it, No one has any need to explain anything,

You participate out of personal choice and therefore accept that the people who have kno knowledge, experience or understand will take apart everything that you say because you are a soft target and they have nothing better to do,

The beauty of it all is that you are wasting each others time with no outcome in either direction.

Unlike me, who is leaving you all to your pointless discussions.

The thread is much better if you just scroll past the dull posts from the usual suspects.

you mean the ones who tell you that theories/sciences are open to criticism and examination but can't take the slightest criticism and bring something interesting to the table? lol

[deckster]

Leftyechochamber said:

The thread is much better if you just scroll past the dull posts from the usual suspects.

I agree completely. The ghost stories are fun. The analyses of why they're rubbish are fun. Even the people who are arguing that, actually, they did see a ghost are entertaining.

The whining from people who want to tell other people what they can and can't post on the thread is however extremely tedious.

[Robbo 27]

^^^

Well said.

The stories based on experience are worth reading, the doubters and the criticisers should jind somethingelse to moan about.

[paulguitar]

Robbo 27 said:

^^^

Well said.

The stories based on experience are worth reading, the doubters and the criticisers should jind somethingelse to moan about.

I like the stories but I'm even more fascinated by the psychology stuff. I don't see any reason why anyone should feel upset or angry because there is some interest in the nuts and bolts of how the brain works and how these hallucinations are possible and even logical/useful.

It's a great thread, something for everyone.

[eharding]

Robbo 27 said:

^^^

Well said.

The stories based on experience are worth reading, the doubters and the criticisers should jind somethingelse to moan about.

So, for the umpteenth time - what was the name of this pub? Even a town or village? Stories based on experience are one thing - your continued avoidance of answering even the most basic questions makes it look increasingly like a work of fiction.

Edited by eharding on Saturday 10th April 15:46

[Robbo 27]

eharding said:

Robbo 27 said:

^^^

Well said.

The stories based on experience are worth reading, the doubters and the criticisers should jind somethingelse to moan about.

So, for the umpteenth time - what was the name of this pub? Even a town or village? Stories based on experience are one thing - your continued avoidance of answering even the most basic questions makes it look increasingly like a work of fiction.

Edited by eharding on Saturday 10th April 15:46

You are a pain

My sister was about 40 at the time, I didn't ask the name of the pub or the name of the pub, she doesn't live in Derbyshire, and neither do I. The name of the pub or the town it was in was not relevant to her or to me, just you apparently.



I presume by the style of your responses that you are a teenager, really, go and play somewhere else sonny.

[BT Summers]

There is an odd concept amongst certain PHers that there is an obligation to have their questions answered.

[eharding]

Robbo 27 said:

eharding said:

Robbo 27 said:

^^^

Well said.

The stories based on experience are worth reading, the doubters and the criticisers should jind somethingelse to moan about.

So, for the umpteenth time - what was the name of this pub? Even a town or village? Stories based on experience are one thing - your continued avoidance of answering even the most basic questions makes it look increasingly like a work of fiction.

Edited by eharding on Saturday 10th April 15:46

You are a pain

My sister was about 40 at the time, I didn't ask the name of the pub or the name of the pub, she doesn't live in Derbyshire, and neither do I. The name of the pub or the town it was in was not relevant to her or to me, just you apparently.



I presume by the style of your responses that you are a teenager, really, go and play somewhere else sonny.

So you weren't there, and your sister, who you allege actually saw this haunting, didn't tell you the name of the pub.

Which is odd. Very odd, in fact. Because the last time you told us this story - here - the details were slightly different:

On Friday 12th May 2017 Robbo 27 said:

Have told this story before on another thread. Was travelling in Derbyshire, myself, wife and her sister. stopped at an old pub for lunch. Sister in law needed a pee and went upstairs. Whilst she was there, washing her hands a small girl, about 8 years old started talking to her, weather and stuff. The girl said her father was the landlord. Sister in law came downstairs, said to the landlord she had just been talking to his daughter, you would have a job he said, she is in Edinburgh. He asked what she looked like and was told a small girl about 8, long dress.

'You have seen Mary, she lived here about 1830, died in a fire'.

In that version, you *do* claim to have been present, and it was your sister-in-law, rather than your sister, who saw the ghoul, it was apparently the ghost who started the conversation, and no mention of the landlord's wife in that one. We've also shifted the date of the fire by fifty years.

I'm all ears when it comes to genuine experiences. Made up piles of massive steaming hairy cobblers, regurgitated (badly) at intervals for who-knows-what reason, not so much. The psychologists might be interested in as to why you feel the need to do so, however.

If you have an explanation, I'm genuinely gagging to hear it.

[Sticks.]

eharding said:

So, for the umpteenth time - what was the name of this pub? Even a town or village? Stories based on experience are one thing - your continued avoidance of answering even the most basic questions makes it look increasingly like a work of fiction.

Edited by eharding on Saturday 10th April 15:46

Ahem, I've asked you something twice and you've not answered.

If you want a haunted pub to disprove, there's loads to choose from.

For those who enjoy a good ghost story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m3lTl9OiXg

[eharding]

Sticks. said:

Ahem, I've asked you something twice and you've not answered.

Apologies - what was the question? I must have missed it. The smoke from Billy Liar's pants on fire above may have reduced the local visibility....

[Stick Legs]

[Stick Legs]