Ghosts

[Faust66]

so called said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

so called said:

On another occasion, in ca., 2006, I had been on a business trip in North America.
Every day a meeting in a different city, evening flights, late dinners and very long hours.
Got to my next hotel, too my room at around 12:45 am.
Absolutely knackered, I couldn't wait to get to bed.
I lay down, pulling the covers over and resting my head on this wonderful pillow.
As the comfort came over me, a child's voice right behind me said, " Hello", and I felt the side of the mattress compress as if someone was leaning against it.
WTF, were the unspoken words as I managed to slide horizontally down the bed until my head was under the covers.

Edited by so called on Thursday 28th May 12:08

As you said....absolutely knackered. That would explain it. You might as well have said "having taken the LSD" or "having finished off the 3rd bottle of wine." Humans are unreliable. More so when they are very tired.

Yes, cant argue, I was knackered.
When I look back, most of my experiences have required me to be horizontal.
Still, it was a very real experience, the voice and the movement of the bed, as with the experience with one of my brothers.

I like the fact that your body reacts instinctively to these situations.
Increased senses, hairs standing etc.
Where does that instinct come from in mans historical development?
Sabre Tooth Tiger in the dark at the mouth of the cave maybe?
All I know is that I wasn't going to turn over in bed to be nose to nose with some ghostly child apparition.

Let’s say it was a ghost.

Ghosts have no physical presence or mass (they’ve been referred to as a ‘footprint on time’ IIRC).

So if ghosts have no weight/mass, how did the mattress compress as you describe?



I’d like to ‘believe’ in ghosts. I’d like to believe that there is some of consciousness that carries on after our physical presence has gone (i.e. you die) but sadly I’m a bit too rational for that. Show me some actual evidence and I’ll consider it/believe… until then it’s just a superstition as far as I’m concerned. And that’s fair enough… whatever gets you through the night.

If people believe in ghosts I’m not going to mock them, in the same way that I try (not always successfully!) not to mock religious beliefs. The difference being that no-one – to the best of my knowledge – has been burnt alive, crucified, blown up, tortured or similar for believing in ghosts. Sadly you can’t say that about all superstitions.

[J4CKO]

NoVetec said:

Shuvi McTupya said:

bigpriest said:

Don't see many cow ghosts walking around abatttoirs.

Would they say boo, or moo?

Roastbusters.

Pretty good, we had an errant Goose and some baby ones appear in the bit in the middle of the building with plants in, nobody was sure what to do 30 or so folk peering at them and someone suggests we call someone, someone else says "Who you going to call " and I had to say "GOOSEBUSTERS !" and was very pleased with myself.


Anyway, ghost wise, I am really not sure, we used to get cold spots, unusual shadows that dont move like normal ones and a weird smell, like you get after rain when its not rained for a bit, despite not having been raining, maybe a bit musty as well.

When we moved in, I noticed it whilst we were renovating, usually corner of the eye stuff, it got more and more frequent and though not what you would call distinct, certainly more obvious. I seemed more tuned into it than the wife, the dog at the time was really tuned in to it and would hide, no barking, just clock it and go and get as far away as possible. I saw her go running for the door when the post came and abruptly about turn having forgot about the door very quickly. I tend not to mention it to the wife, she notices the smell but nothing else really. Current dog seems to be aware but not remotely scared or bothered.

Its maybe three feet high and not really a figure, its more like the top half if it was a human shape, I have tried speaking to it when its there and there is zero interaction, have tried moving through it, nothing other than feels chilly but that may be me, no feeling of dread or melancholy, its not scary. No noises or weird stuff.

Can go for months, years then all of a sudden I clock it, hadn't seen it for ages and we had some underpinning work done and I was seeing it every day, strongest it had ever been.

Not sure its a "Ghost", dont believe in that stuff, but its certainly unusual, House was built on an old gravel pit and Nursery (plants type, not kid type) and maybe its a remnant of that.

[bobtail4x4]

millions believe in sky fairies

I dont think anyone has seen one?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

bobtail4x4 said:

millions believe in sky fairies

I dont think anyone has seen one?

Ghosts/gods/psychics etc. It's all the same to me.

[Ayahuasca]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

bobtail4x4 said:

millions believe in sky fairies

I dont think anyone has seen one?

Ghosts/gods/psychics etc. It's all the same to me.

Good to know, thanks.

[Scoobman]

A link here. This one from someone my father knew, who was a brain specialist and observed the process of death.

https://youtu.be/78SkTuk8Zd4


Lots of stuff/evidence posted on YouTube. Some will be fake some will be unexplainable.

https://youtu.be/bb4EKuvtc4Q


I think on this tiny spec called earth scientific knowledge is immense but in the grand scheme of things scientists know the square root of f all.

Just because YOU can't see it doesn't mean to say it doesn't exist.

If you take the device you are using to access PH on. You can not see the connection to it but you know it exists. If you had mentioned the possibility of modern of communications say 100 years ago people would not have believed it.

Having spent a few days chatting to several people that have died and come back/had near death experiences coupled with what I have seen associated with death, I am pretty convinced that your soul does not die with your physical body.

All I would say is keep an open mind. Out

[extraT]

Not sure if this has been said, in an age where everyone walks around with phones capable of HD recordings and can produce pictures that can pick up the smallest details, we haven’t had definite proof of:

Ghosts
Aliens
Gods
Loch Ness monster
Yeti’s

I’m going to say they don’t exist.

This whole topic occupies a relationship between fascinations that we then talk ourselves into believing.

..However if definitive proof is ever produced, I will be a convert.

[Esceptico]

Scoobman said:

A link here. This one from someone my father knew, who was a brain specialist and observed the process of death.

https://youtu.be/78SkTuk8Zd4


Lots of stuff/evidence posted on YouTube. Some will be fake some will be unexplainable.

https://youtu.be/bb4EKuvtc4Q


I think on this tiny spec called earth scientific knowledge is immense but in the grand scheme of things scientists know the square root of f all.

Just because YOU can't see it doesn't mean to say it doesn't exist.

If you take the device you are using to access PH on. You can not see the connection to it but you know it exists. If you had mentioned the possibility of modern of communications say 100 years ago people would not have believed it.

Having spent a few days chatting to several people that have died and come back/had near death experiences coupled with what I have seen associated with death, I am pretty convinced that your soul does not die with your physical body.

All I would say is keep an open mind. Out

If there is a contest between you and “scientists” knowing the square root of fk all I think I know who I would put my money on.

There are plenty of things that have been proved to exist without us being able to see them directly - pretty much everything that makes up the standard model of particle physics as just one example (plus the zoo of compound particles from various combinations).

The difficulty is that concepts like the soul make no sense. Yes to savages with no knowledge of how we came to be here then it makes intuitive sense but if you know about evolution and biology then it is an absurd idea. Do bacteria have souls? Ants? Frogs? When did organisms get souls (humans have existed for a very small fraction of total time of life on Earth)? Why do souls exist and why would they evolve? What are they made of? How does that square with the rest of physics that we do know?

Just laughable really.

There are enough problems trying to understand the world without adding in extra nonsense made up by people.

[bigpriest]

Scoobman said:

A link here. This one from someone my father knew, who was a brain specialist and observed the process of death.

https://youtu.be/78SkTuk8Zd4


Lots of stuff/evidence posted on YouTube. Some will be fake some will be unexplainable.

https://youtu.be/bb4EKuvtc4Q


I think on this tiny spec called earth scientific knowledge is immense but in the grand scheme of things scientists know the square root of f all.

Just because YOU can't see it doesn't mean to say it doesn't exist.

If you take the device you are using to access PH on. You can not see the connection to it but you know it exists. If you had mentioned the possibility of modern of communications say 100 years ago people would not have believed it.

Having spent a few days chatting to several people that have died and come back/had near death experiences coupled with what I have seen associated with death, I am pretty convinced that your soul does not die with your physical body.

All I would say is keep an open mind. Out

Deffo keep an open mind - no one knows what happens after we die and anybody that claims to know (religion, mediums) are liars. The scientific world doesn't claim to know, it's honest enough to say so and propose logical arguments and reasons as to what is happening based on research and evidence.

[shih tzu faced]

extraT said:

Not sure if this has been said, in an age where everyone walks around with phones capable of HD recordings and can produce pictures that can pick up the smallest details, we haven’t had definite proof of:

Ghosts
Aliens
Gods
Loch Ness monster
Yeti’s

I’m going to say they don’t exist.

This whole topic occupies a relationship between fascinations that we then talk ourselves into believing.

..However if definitive proof is ever produced, I will be a convert.

Ahaaa you say that but how do you explain the mysterious apostrophe appearing in Yeti’s in your otherwise well written post??

Answer me THAT Mr. Sceptic Science Boffin HA!!

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Scoobman said:

I think on this tiny spec called earth scientific knowledge is immense but in the grand scheme of things scientists know the square root of f all.

Firstly, that's just not true. Scientists know a huge amount about the way our planet and the universe works. It's quite fashionable to say we know very little, but it's not the case. But of course, we don't know everything. The answer to that is to do more science, not to prescribe explanations to events without evidence.

Secondly, if you go back just 12000 years, to when we knew very little, we had supernatural explanations for everything, from rainbows to fertility. Everything involved some kind of supernatural answer. Since then, we've answered millions of questions, tens of millions. And not a single one has involved anything supernatural. Based on that evidence, it's a pretty safe bet to say that the unanswered questions that we still have will have an explanation that doesn't involve the supernatural.

Thirdly, can we please quit with the phrase "keep an open mind", as if those of use who don't believe are somehow less open minded. People that are believers aren't very open minded to actually reaching a sensible conclusion based on the available evidence.

As someone on PH said recently, some claiming to have an open mind actually have a mind like an unattended skip.

[Candellara]

I tended to sit on the fence when it comes to such things as religion, ghosts etc - as does my Wife until...

My Father passed away some years ago - 2011 and last year my Mother finally had the courage to start clearing out some of his personal effects that he'd accumulated over his life. Hundreds of pictures, books that he'd written, penknife's (he used to collect), jewellery such as his watches, St Christopher's, chains etc - you get the idea.

Anyhow, at a loss with what to do with them, my Mother asked me if I could take them along with his writing bureau which I duly agreed to. So, about a car load of items collected and in the interim, I thought i'd just take them home and go through all of the boxes one by one. After several evenings of me and my Wife going through the boxes our normal routine resumed, bath the children, prepare dinner, tv and then bed.

During the middle of the night my Wife woke me frantically to say the smoke alarm in the landing was going. I quickly shot out of bed, ran into the landing where I found it full of quite thick smoke. I shouted to my Wife, to get the children and get out of the house as I ventured downstairs to try and find the source of the smoke. Hallway clear, kitchen clear, and I opened the internal kitchen garage door as I expected that to be the source of a fire. Nothing, no smoke, no fire. I went back upstairs only to find the smoke alarm not sounding, no smoke on the landing and my Wife with the children in their bedroom.

We were both aghast as she had also witnessed the thick smoke as she went from our bedroom to the children's via the landing. We were both flummoxed as to the reason for this occurrence as the smoke alarm was nearly new with an internal lithium battery (that has never sounded since) and there was no explanation or source for all of the thick smoke.

Anyhow, two or three days later, we were awoken again during the early hours. This time to the sound of the car alarm going (on the car in the internal garage). I once again ran downstairs and sure enough the car alarm was shrilling away so I had to retrieve the keys from their normal hiding place and deactivate the alarm. By the time i'd got the keys the alarm sounder had stopped - but the alarm was never armed!! I never lock the car or arm the alarm in the internal garage - I never have.

A day or two again passed and we were awoken again - this time the caravan alarm on the drive is going at full chat. Ran downstairs, retrieved the keys and deactivated the alarm (we always do activate the caravan alarm but we've never had an instance of the alarm sounding and never have had since)

Being somewhat spooked by the week we'd had I decided to take all of Dad's stuff and store it at work as we didn't have room for it all at home anyway. Needless to say, nothing out of the ordinary has ever happened since but we simply cannot explain these occurrences - particularly the fire alarm and the smoke.

We still remain sat on the fence but both my Wife and I are a little more open minded about such matters as there was no logical explanation for our experience.

[Truckosaurus]

extraT said:

...
Yeti’s....

I believe they discovered Yetis were some rare Himalyan bear that often walked on its hind legs.

[Roofless Toothless]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Firstly, that's just not true. Scientists know a huge amount about the way our planet and the universe works. It's quite fashionable to say we know very little, but it's not the case. But of course, we don't know everything. The answer to that is to do more science, not to prescribe explanations to events without evidence.

Secondly, if you go back just 12000 years, to when we knew very little, we had supernatural explanations for everything, from rainbows to fertility. Everything involved some kind of supernatural answer. Since then, we've answered millions of questions, tens of millions. And not a single one has involved anything supernatural. Based on that evidence, it's a pretty safe bet to say that the unanswered questions that we still have will have an explanation that doesn't involve the supernatural.

Thirdly, can we please quit with the phrase "keep an open mind", as if those of use who don't believe are somehow less open minded. People that are believers aren't very open minded to actually reaching a sensible conclusion based on the available evidence.

As someone on PH said recently, some claiming to have an open mind actually have a mind like an unattended skip.

With respect Twig, we perceive only what it is possible for a human being to perceive, and know only what is possible for a human mind to know. Outside that, we know nothing, or even how much more there is to perceive/know. I haven't got a clue what that might have to do with ghosts, however.

[Esceptico]

Roofless Toothless said:

With respect Twig, we perceive only what it is possible for a human being to perceive, and know only what is possible for a human mind to know. Outside that, we know nothing, or even how much more there is to perceive/know. I haven't got a clue what that might have to do with ghosts, however.

Not sure what you mean. We can’t perceive gravitational waves but we were able to postulate their existence then build a machine to detect them. There may be other phenomena that we don’t know about because we can’t perceive them but they don’t involve the supernatural nor couldn’t be understood. Our knowledge has increased exponentially in the past two centuries and even things we don’t intuitively understand (quantum physics) we can explain with maths and make predictions. I’m fairly confident that there are no phenomena that can’t be described by maths given that everything we have come across so far can be.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

bigpriest said:

no one knows what happens after we die and anybody that claims to know (religion, mediums) are liars. .

This is the kind of throwaway comment people make, that when you drill down into it, is just not so. We know exactly what happens when we die. We've seen millions of people die, seen their bodies decompose etc. Just because some people make up stuff to add on to the end, like souls, ghosts, heaven and hell, doesn't mean we don't know what happens when we die.

I could choose to believe that every time we use the lawn mower, it causes a car accident in South America. People would then say I was talking utter nonsense and I could reply "but no one knows what happens when we use the lawn mower". Well clearly we do know, it cuts the grass. And that's it. Just because I choose to believe something else comes after that, doesn't mean we don't know about lawn mowers.

We know what death is all about and what happens. People believing in ghosts doesn't change that fact.

[CAPP0]

shih tzu faced said:

Ahaaa you say that but how do you explain the mysterious apostrophe appearing in Yeti’s in your otherwise well written post??

Answer me THAT Mr. Sceptic Science Boffin HA!!

Physical lol at that one!

[silverfoxcc]

Sometimes being of sound mind, i don't think that Gods exist, cannot fathom out how the universe started. They quote the big bang, but what was there to start it, and how did it get there.?

You could say that if you took a box with nothing in it, pulled the greatest vacuum possible out if it, Then you have the situation of another big bang
And if a Deity did build it, who produced him?.
However, My wife and i have experienced the same phenomena at different times

I have been sitting in the living room and was aware of a 'brown smoke' drifting through the room at about head height. Hard to describe, it was there, yet wasn't..and this has happened several times, but when it does come through ( house is a 1970 build and a forest was cut down for the estate, so no know battles plague pits tpo blame) We both felt relaxed and not in the least fightened.I had though for ages it was a 'floater; in the eye but now..not so sure.
We have the ashes of our three dogs under the coffee table, and i suppose ,we would like to think they are still 'in the house'

But here is a theory

When i worked in BT Fibre optic were the latest thing, and could carry thousands of conversations, couldn;t grasp it at first until on of the tutors said take a river,the river is flowing at x mph, there are boats going along at differing speeds, but not interfering wit each other, the same with optivc fibere, each converasation is sent out at a different frequency.

Noew bring that one stage onwards What if there are multiple frequencies in time and space, and occasionally you get a hiccup eg 'Ghosts'

Time travel is another thing that is possible in theory but only backwards in time and can best be described by two cars/
One starts off and travels at 60mph the later one travels at 120 and soon catches and passes the slower one.

Build a rocket that is faster than light???? with a powerful telescope and you will be able to see thing that happened in the past. The night sky is full of them Stars light years away whose light we are seeing BUT may have exploded 100 years ago.

Sometime i think i have too mush time om my hands

No ghosts/Deities do not exist, but if irrefutable proof is shown, then i will change my mind book do not count, otherwise it could be in 2000yrs time the new Gods will be Harry Potter or James Bond. after all they are just stories of wonderful thing they did

[brman]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

bigpriest said:

no one knows what happens after we die and anybody that claims to know (religion, mediums) are liars. .

This is the kind of throwaway comment people make, that when you drill down into it, is just not so. We know exactly what happens when we die. We've seen millions of people die, seen their bodies decompose etc. Just because some people make up stuff to add on to the end, like souls, ghosts, heaven and hell, doesn't mean we don't know what happens when we die.

I could choose to believe that every time we use the lawn mower, it causes a car accident in South America. People would then say I was talking utter nonsense and I could reply "but no one knows what happens when we use the lawn mower". Well clearly we do know, it cuts the grass. And that's it. Just because I choose to believe something else comes after that, doesn't mean we don't know about lawn mowers.

We know what death is all about and what happens. People believing in ghosts doesn't change that fact.

This is the kind of comment people make that, when you drill down into it, is just not so.....

You are right, we know an awful lot about what goes on when the someone dies. But that does not mean we know everything about what happens. Which is the problem with this sort of arguement. Proving something does not exist is pretty difficult, especially if it involves understanding how the human brain works. I know there have been big advances in recent years in understanding how the brain works but I think that in reality we are still just scratching the surface. The same can be said for science. The more we understand, the more we realise what we do not yet understand.

Don't get me wrong. I don't believe that ghosts, the soul etc etc exist. However all the evidence and my logic is not enough to say that categorically they cannot exist. Just that I think the overwelming evidence is that they do not. Not quite the same thing. Especially as I cannnot explain some of the videos on youtube. Sure, I can say they must be a hoax or some phenomenon we do not yet understand but I cannot prove that so it is a bit of a weak arguement!

[xjay1337]

silverfoxcc said:

Time travel is another thing that is possible in theory but only backwards in time and can best be described by two cars/
One starts off and travels at 60mph the later one travels at 120 and soon catches and passes the slower one.

Time travel is possible, it's not that you go backwards in time but your time is relative to you, not the Universe.

So if you are in a car going at 99.7% the speed of light, compared to someone "not in a car" then 1hr for you at 99.7% the speed of light might be actually 6 months* for the person not moving

• numbers made up but you get my point.