Things you always wanted to know the answer to [Vol. 5]
Discussion
popeyewhite said:
. .except those who actually wish to enforce some kind of virtuosity.
Yes and on this thread violence against Asians has increased not sure where, i haven't seen hinese takeaways shunned or windows smashed in.It is just onward progression to where everything is offensive because it might offend those .1% who get offended for others, then everything should change, that works well, to satisfy their loudest voice.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
popeyewhite said:
If you don't mind being patronised. It's a tiny, tiny group that actually blame Indians or any Indian connection for the variant that bears the same geographic name. Similarly the outrage that England fans boo at the gesture of taking the knee before a game. So what? Someone scores, they cheer, ref makes a poor decision, they boo. It's normal fan behaviour. No one really thinks all who voice their displeasure are racists... .except those who actually wish to enforce some kind of virtuosity.
I don't disagree with you. However, nobody has been able to give a credible answer as to why "Indian variant" is so vastly superior and more informative than "Delta variant". Especially given that we have the internet and you can easily look up the country of origin of Delta with a simple google search, should the information be useful. Nothing has been lost.I can totally see that both are superior to "B.1.612.2", for which both are a shorthand. What I can't see is any good reason not to call it "Delta" though. It's a far more scientific and less emotive designation.
Edit:
Additionally, as others have pointed out, what we call the "Kent" variant is called the "British" variant by others. If everyone calls it Alpha then there is less ambiguity. Also, what happens if a second variant comes out of India? Do people want to call that "Indian 2"? "2nd Indian"? Or would simply calling it the next Greek letter along just be easier?
What happens if it turns out that a case of Delta was seen in a different country before the first reported case in India and it didn't in fact originate from India after all? Do we then rename it?
Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Tuesday 15th June 16:50
Which, i think is the whole point of the WHO's move to use a different naming convention, for whatever valid reason, Countries don't want to be associated with new, potentially dangerous strains. I don't know, there's a little hint, nothing more, that 'Delta' might be less lethal than 'Alpha' with more people reporting more 'cold like' symptoms, maybe India will want it back, I doubt it. Anyway, the WHO don't want countries to stop looking for new strains through fear of being labelled for the next one.
As for people and their isums, I know personally, when it was discovered that Delta was going to become the new scary strain, obviously a lot of anger was aimed at the Government, the situation in India was clearly appalling and it seems obvious that we should have ceased travel to and from there. frankly most people were under the assumption that international travel was banned anyway.
However, it didn't take long for people to start making assumptions, supposedly stories of lots of people visiting South Asia for Ramadan, then coming home and going to Ramadan Parties, Eid Parties etc, the time scale sort of fitting, add into the mix a high prevalence of Covid in the Asian community in Bradford and it's only a small leap to "Indians going 'home' for Ramadan and then bringing Indian Covid here".
The Spruce Goose said:
It is just onward progression to where everything is offensive because it might offend those .1% who get offended for others, then everything should change, that works well, to satisfy their loudest voice.
But it doesn't work well, as eloquently argued by P-Jay in the post following yours. And you *still* haven't explained why you think it is so advantageous to call it "Indian" rather then "Delta". You seem to think that this is *vital* information without giving any credible evidence for it other than the fact that you just don't like change.
captain_cynic said:
Which brings up another good point, what if another varient was discovered in India?
At least with eh WHO naming convention you Delta is distinctive from Iota.
the issue is there are only so many places that can sequence cv19, which is why the UK led the field, but it backfired on them, and people don't understand, but in fairness you wouldn't when the news is just doom and gloom 24/7. The location should have stayed considering how locations and spread are so important in monitoring cv19. At least with eh WHO naming convention you Delta is distinctive from Iota.
P-Jay said:
Which, i think is the whole point of the WHO's move to use a different naming convention, for whatever valid reason, Countries don't want to be associated with new, potentially dangerous strains. I don't know, there's a little hint, nothing more, that 'Delta' might be less lethal than 'Alpha' with more people reporting more 'cold like' symptoms, maybe India will want it back, I doubt it. Anyway, the WHO don't want countries to stop looking for new strains through fear of being labelled for the next one.
"This may seem like a trivial issue to some, but disease names really do matter to the people who are directly affected," Keiji Fukuda, former WHO assistant Director-General for Health Security, said in 2015However Spanish Flu, West Nile Virus, Ebola, Middle East Respiratory Syndrome etc didn't seem to result in a drop in tourism to those countries/place, or visitors from any of them being treated any differently. Maybe - I'm guessing here. Mind you "alright mate, where are you from" "Ebola" "Ah, feeling OK are you?" [steps back a bit]. Seems to me a case of authorities desperate not to offend/pandering to the lowest common denominator, as is often the case nowadays. The WHO is behind this lunacy. I also think as humans when we're threatened by something like a disease it's nice to know where our nemesis comes from/originated. I don't know why.
The Spruce Goose said:
The location should have stayed considering how locations and spread are so important in monitoring cv19.
How has the information been lost? The information is still known and recorded, and cross-referenced to the codename. Do you constantly have to quote the tax band of your car whenever you mention it, lest the information be lost, or could you just look it up on your V5 when you need to tax it?
Seriously, this is your most compelling argument?
popeyewhite said:
However Spanish Flu, West Nile Virus, Ebola, Middle East Respiratory Syndrome etc didn't seem to result in a drop in tourism to those countries/place, or visitors from any of them being treated any differently.
popeyewhite said:
Maybe - I'm guessing here.
I'd say more than maybe. 
popeyewhite said:
Mind you "alright mate, where are you from" "Ebola" "Ah, feeling OK are you?" [steps back a bit].
Yeah, I'm sure that's all anyone has ever had to put up with. I'm sure everything is just a bit of banter and light ribbing. 
But even if it is as harmless as you seem to think, it *still* doesn't explain why a globally-agreed designator is a bad idea.
popeyewhite said:
Because It's patronising, and it infantilises those it's aimed at.
No it doesn't. And it's no more patronising than a car registration plate. Maybe I'm just more used to things having keywords, having first had an education in science and then moved into software development. Just seems perfectly normal to me.
The WHO had a scientific designator for each variant but nobody would use them because they weren't media friendly, so the WHO have given them Greek letter aliases. Big deal. What's the issue with being scientifically correct and using them? Seems far more infantile *not* to.
Edit:
Maybe it was you, maybe it was someone else, but I'm sure I've seen people in the "Things that annoy you..." thread moaning that doctors use the word 'tummy' to patients when there is a 'perfectly good scientific name' of stomach. Well, "tummy" is to "stomach" what "Indian variant" is to "Delta variant".
Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Tuesday 15th June 19:27
The Spruce Goose said:
popeyewhite said:
. .except those who actually wish to enforce some kind of virtuosity.
Yes and on this thread violence against Asians has increased not sure where, i haven't seen Chinese takeaways shunned or windows smashed in.It is just onward progression to where everything is offensive because it might offend those .1% who get offended for others, then everything should change, that works well, to satisfy their loudest voice.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5621868...
In the UK:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56323775
Around the world:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/12/covid-19-fueli...
Just a few of the links, if you do some googling.
P-Jay said:
However, it didn't take long for people to start making assumptions, supposedly stories of lots of people visiting South Asia for Ramadan, then coming home and going to Ramadan Parties, Eid Parties etc, the time scale sort of fitting, add into the mix a high prevalence of Covid in the Asian community in Bradford and it's only a small leap to "Indians going 'home' for Ramadan and then bringing Indian Covid here".
There are relatively few Muslims in India (just over 10%, IIRC). The majority are Hindus.To be fair, I doubt it is a coincidence that Delta was found in parts of the country with high Indian populations. I have heard first- and second-hand stories of those of Asian descent going to India during lockdown (and even returning when they get ill there). Some from people who really should know better. I find it remarkable how many flights from India were landing each day (I seem to recall five a day). The Indian community have tended to be (along with other ethnic groups) more vaccine-averse and tend to live in multi-generational households. All-in-all not a great combination. But one has to ask why, knowing the risk, the government didn't red-list India immediately.
AstonZagato said:
In the UK:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56323775
Just a few of the links, if you do some googling.
The BBC one, i can't find the source for ''300% increase'' in chinese hate crimes. i can see the met reported 120 in 6 months last year. So these justifies white washing this then, because anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see racists will always be racists no matter what the strain is called.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56323775
Just a few of the links, if you do some googling.
Edit just noticed in the link you posted for US.
''Federal hate crime data for 2020 has not yet been released,
though hate crimes in 2019 were at their highest level in over a decade.''
Lol before CV19, so a deep rooted hated issue is sorted by renaming a cv19 strain, FFS to counter an argument here's a tip, don't post BBC propaganda BS.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 15th June 20:26
The Spruce Goose said:
Lol before CV19, so a deep rooted hated issue is sorted by renaming a cv19 strain, FFS to counter an argument here's a tip, don't post BBC propaganda BS.
Sorry, what is CV19? I don't understand this new word you made up. Why change what was working perfectly fine before? Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff