Finding my birth mother

[Bluesgirl]

There's no crime involved. There are all sorts of circumstances which could result in adoption being the most appropriate course of action. It doesn't mean the mother is guilty of doing anything wrong at all. Why should she live with the constant fear of a child she couldn't keep suddenly appearing unannounced at some point in the future? It makes sense for an organisation to maintain the records and liaise between the parties if one of them wants to make contact in the future.

[Bluesgirl]

GloverMart said:

My last update as this isn't my thread!

Had an hour long phone conversation with my late brother's adoptive dad and his wife this morning. Went very well and I've picked up lots of information about him which is helping me a lot. I've sent some photos to them via email and they are going to send some by return to me. One pic I have seen online, he was very like me to look at (poor bloke!), loved his football and cricket and we seem to have shared some character traits too.

They have also asked if, when COVID restrictions ease, we could meet up. I'd be delighted to, this (so far) has turned out better than I hoped. i also hope they are getting something from it too.

That's a really good outcome, GM, I'm glad it's turned out well for you. Hopefully more good things to come too.

[Mojooo]

Bluesgirl said:

There's no crime involved. There are all sorts of circumstances which could result in adoption being the most appropriate course of action. It doesn't mean the mother is guilty of doing anything wrong at all. Why should she live with the constant fear of a child she couldn't keep suddenly appearing unannounced at some point in the future? It makes sense for an organisation to maintain the records and liaise between the parties if one of them wants to make contact in the future.

I hear what you are saying but at the same time if you bring someone into this world you can't be surprised if they are determined to find you.

[Bluesgirl]

Fortunately it's not the child's decision to make. It's such a hugely emotive topic that's it's best dealt with sensitively by an independent third party, for the benefit of all concerned.

I realise that you may not find that satisfactory, but the potential disruption and chaos that could be caused by letting people have unlimited access to their adoption records makes it the best solution to a difficult problem.

[Tyre Smoke]

Bluesgirl said:

Fortunately it's not the child's decision to make. It's such a hugely emotive topic that's it's best dealt with sensitively by an independent third party, for the benefit of all concerned.

I realise that you may not find that satisfactory, but the potential disruption and chaos that could be caused by letting people have unlimited access to their adoption records makes it the best solution to a difficult problem.

Well actually it is. A parent has no right to find the child. My mother searched for years, posting on adoption reunion sites, etc. But she got no support from the authorities. On the the other hand, I got loads of support and found her grave inside a couple of months. Along with two half brothers and three half sisters. And an immense amount of history.

[GloverMart]

I appreciate that I'm coming at this from the angle of having a largely successful outcome, albeit I didn't find my brother before he died, but I think the balance is pretty much where it should be.

Having to use a cool, calm, neutral intermediary seems to be the way & if they can judge the mood of what the relationship could/would be like and act accordingly, maybe the system is fine as it is. I'm not sure that unfettered access to adoption records are the way to go.

My brother's adoptive dad said yesterday that my brother would have loved to have met me... yet he never did access his adoption file. He had a loving relationship with his adoptive parents & knew he was adopted but wasn't inclined to do any level of digging to find me which would have been a lot easier than me finding him.

Edited by GloverMart on Thursday 29th October 09:42

[Taylor James]

Mojooo said:

Bluesgirl said:

There's no crime involved. There are all sorts of circumstances which could result in adoption being the most appropriate course of action. It doesn't mean the mother is guilty of doing anything wrong at all. Why should she live with the constant fear of a child she couldn't keep suddenly appearing unannounced at some point in the future? It makes sense for an organisation to maintain the records and liaise between the parties if one of them wants to make contact in the future.

I hear what you are saying but at the same time if you bring someone into this world you can't be surprised if they are determined to find you.

What's your take on children that are the products of rape and abuse? They're not wanted - can't think why - so are adopted.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Mojooo said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Exactly right. People who give up a child for adoption have the right to live out the rest of their lives in peace, without unwanted contact from the child. In the same way an adopted child is entitled to keep well clear of their birth parents, should they wish to.

"People who give up a child for adoption have the right to live out the rest of their lives in peace"


Not sure I agree TBH... you do the crime you do the time as they say.

Crime! Ffs!!!

So a 14 y/o girl is raped, gets pregnant, gives up the child, and manages to eventually rebuild her life and move on, eventually getting married and having a family, whilst keeping her past firmly in the past.

Just run by me what her crime is.

I think you need to engage your brain before you engage with the keyboard. And get some fking empathy.

Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Thursday 29th October 09:17

[Tyre Smoke]

Even in that circumstance there may be a desire for the child to find their birth mother. Similarly, the mother may feel maternal instinct and want to meet their child.

My mother was pressurised into giving me up ( single, young, unmarried, mid 1960s) but never kept me a secret or 'hid me away'. My youngest half sister tells me my birthday was her bank card pin.

So, yes in the example above the mother may want to move on and put a horrible experience behind her, but the child won't know they were the product of rape and may want to meet their mother.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Tyre Smoke said:

Even in that circumstance there may be a desire for the child to find their birth mother. Similarly, the mother may feel maternal instinct and want to meet their child.

Both of those desires are fine. What's not fine is thinking your desires outweigh the other party's. If both want contact, that's great. If one doesn't, then it doesn't happen. The mother has not committed a crime, and doesn't owe anyone her time.

Tyre Smoke said:

So, yes in the example above the mother may want to move on and put a horrible experience behind her, but the child won't know they were the product of rape and may want to meet their mother.

Well tough luck on the child. They are now both grown adults who get to make their own choices. If I wanted to meet you, and you didn't want to meet me, we aren't going to meet.

[Tyre Smoke]

The child has committed no crime either.

You say that one set of circumstances don't outweigh the other, then go on to say that one does.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Tyre Smoke said:

The child has committed no crime either.

You say that one set of circumstances don't outweigh the other, then go on to say that one does.

I never said the child had committed a crime. You said the mother had.

What I am saying, is that if you want two adults to do something, both of them have to want to do it. If one of them doesn't, then it doesn't happen.

That's a pretty universal principle of human life. If not, rape wouldn't be illegal!

[Tyre Smoke]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Tyre Smoke said:

The child has committed no crime either.

You say that one set of circumstances don't outweigh the other, then go on to say that one does.

[b]
I never said the child had committed a crime. You said the mother had.[/b]

What I am saying, is that if you want two adults to do something, both of them have to want to do it. If one of them doesn't, then it doesn't happen.

That's a pretty universal principle of human life. If not, rape wouldn't be illegal!

I said no such thing.

I was at odds with you saying tough luck on the child if their parent wants nothing to do with them. It doesn't work like that. Currently the child can find out everything and if the parent doesn't want to meet, that's as far as it goes. But it doesn't stop the child from finding out current address and status of the parent. For the parent, they have no such rights.

[Marlin45]

A friends two adopted girls were taken into his (and his wife at the time's) care when they were 5 and 7 years old. It was very much a fast tracked adoption as they both had only just been accepted as foster parents. Once cleared for that they only had a few days notice before the two girls arrived and a decision had to be made. I knew very little background bar the birth parents would have zero access due to a court order. They are both now 16 and 18 years old and have grown up to be a lovely couple of girls and are starting out in their chosen careers.

I recently approached the court order subject again over a couple of beers and apparently the older daughter was being 'offered' and used as payment for drugs amongst the parents circle of acquaintances - before the police were involved. Luckily the youngest appears to have avoided direct involvement but it may take years for the psychological damage to emerge? Understandably neither have any wish to see their original parents at this point.

[Taylor James]

Tyre Smoke said:

Even in that circumstance there may be a desire for the child to find their birth mother. Similarly, the mother may feel maternal instinct and want to meet their child.

My mother was pressurised into giving me up ( single, young, unmarried, mid 1960s) but never kept me a secret or 'hid me away'. My youngest half sister tells me my birthday was her bank card pin.

So, yes in the example above the mother may want to move on and put a horrible experience behind her, but the child won't know they were the product of rape and may want to meet their mother.

Tough. We all have to live with not being able to get everything we want.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Tyre Smoke said:

Currently the child can find out everything and if the parent doesn't want to meet, that's as far as it goes. But it doesn't stop the child from finding out current address and status of the parent. For the parent, they have no such rights.

I think they are entitled to their original birth certificate and details of the agency that handled the adoption. And that's it. From that they may be able to find out further info, but aren't automatically entitled to it.

[sinbaddio]

Marlin45 said:

A friends two adopted girls were taken into his (and his wife at the time's) care when they were 5 and 7 years old. It was very much a fast tracked adoption as they both had only just been accepted as foster parents. Once cleared for that they only had a few days notice before the two girls arrived and a decision had to be made. I knew very little background bar the birth parents would have zero access due to a court order. They are both now 16 and 18 years old and have grown up to be a lovely couple of girls and are starting out in their chosen careers.

I recently approached the court order subject again over a couple of beers and apparently the older daughter was being 'offered' and used as payment for drugs amongst the parents circle of acquaintances - before the police were involved. Luckily the youngest appears to have avoided direct involvement but it may take years for the psychological damage to emerge? Understandably neither have any wish to see their original parents at this point.

Wow - the two polar opposites of the human race - the birth parents who are obviously horrific people and your pal who is imo a saint. It's great that the girls been given the opportunity of a fresh start, hats off to him!

[Gixer968CS]

Mojooo said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Exactly right. People who give up a child for adoption have the right to live out the rest of their lives in peace, without unwanted contact from the child. In the same way an adopted child is entitled to keep well clear of their birth parents, should they wish to.

"People who give up a child for adoption have the right to live out the rest of their lives in peace"


Not sure I agree TBH... you do the crime you do the time as they say.

That's two very silly comments you've made on this subject. Until you've been in the situation and understand it you shouldn't judge. All you've done is expose your ignorance with such ill informed views . As an adoptive parent I had to go through the gruelling training and education process to prepare me for a future with an adopted child. It was not only a life changing experience because I now have a beautiful daughter, but also because it fundamentally changed how I view other people's lives and the main thing I learned was to never judge.

These parents are victims of many things that lead to them to a point of no return. How they got there is often a very sad story and not always something they can control. Similarly, the way children and then adults behave may seem unpalatable to other yet may be driven by factors they themselves cannot control. Don't judge, try to understand and you won't be able to do that until you educate yourself.

[Tyre Smoke]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Tyre Smoke said:

Currently the child can find out everything and if the parent doesn't want to meet, that's as far as it goes. But it doesn't stop the child from finding out current address and status of the parent. For the parent, they have no such rights.

I think they are entitled to their original birth certificate and details of the agency that handled the adoption. And that's it. From that they may be able to find out further info, but aren't automatically entitled to it.

You would be wrong.

I was/am permitted to know everything. Further, there was nothing at all to stop me tracing my birth mother. In fact it was encouraged because the county council furnished a list of tracing agencies.
On the other hand, no matter what my birth mother wanted, she was given no information and was not permitted to trace me. Once I was handed to social services, all contact ceased.

[Tyre Smoke]

Taylor James said:

Tyre Smoke said:

Even in that circumstance there may be a desire for the child to find their birth mother. Similarly, the mother may feel maternal instinct and want to meet their child.

My mother was pressurised into giving me up ( single, young, unmarried, mid 1960s) but never kept me a secret or 'hid me away'. My youngest half sister tells me my birthday was her bank card pin.

So, yes in the example above the mother may want to move on and put a horrible experience behind her, but the child won't know they were the product of rape and may want to meet their mother.

Tough. We all have to live with not being able to get everything we want.

Wow. What a disgusting comment.