Conspiracy theorists... are they all just a bit thick?
Discussion
LF5335 said:
jshell said:
Irreparable damage - we now have higher excess deaths than during Covid, an economy on it's ass, possibly a forthcoming economic crash and people who've been unable to get much needed treatments.. That is going to be long lasting.
Aquired immunity is what we would have had if we hadn't tried to vaccinate in the middle of a pandemic. It's also obvious now that mutations are caused by the provably leaky vaccines. Immunology class 1.
Staff who worked through the first wave were proven to have antibodies from repeat exposure, which is how herd immunity would have happened!!
Herd immunity cannot be achieved now as people have had their immune systems trained by a vaccine designed for the early variants not the later ones. Shown by even the UK Govts own numbers and predicted early on by virologists.
The fact that you don't know any of this stuff just shows you are here to shout "CT" from the rooftops.
I'll leave you to your inane ramblings and utter lack of knowledge and logic.
Aquired immunity is what we would have had if we hadn't tried to vaccinate in the middle of a pandemic. It's also obvious now that mutations are caused by the provably leaky vaccines. Immunology class 1.
Staff who worked through the first wave were proven to have antibodies from repeat exposure, which is how herd immunity would have happened!!
Herd immunity cannot be achieved now as people have had their immune systems trained by a vaccine designed for the early variants not the later ones. Shown by even the UK Govts own numbers and predicted early on by virologists.
The fact that you don't know any of this stuff just shows you are here to shout "CT" from the rooftops.
I'll leave you to your inane ramblings and utter lack of knowledge and logic.
this is pure classDamage. Irreparable was the claim in that pile of poo you seem to love. None of what you’ve mentioned is irreparable, excluding death, but are we really seeing ec]xcess deaths that high. Don’t answer that, I’ll look it up for myself. There are other wild claims you’ve made, none of which are irreparable. Some of it is poor, but there are many, many factors in play with this.
More vaccine wibble. Let me hazard a wild guess, you’re an anti-vax obsessive. Even your bloody declaration says that vaccines will help.
So all we needed was for everyone to be staff in the first wave? What happened when a load of them needed treatment for Covid? Did we just magic a load of health professionals from the magic NHS tree?
You know even less than me, but I can drive a bus through all of your claims, with minimal effort. That should tell you something about how naïve you are.
Oh, and I'll take a Nobel laureate over your rantings any day: https://telanganatoday.com/mass-vaccination-during...
"French virologist and Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier called mass vaccination against the coronavirus during the pandemic “unthinkable” and a historical blunder that is “creating the variants” and leading to deaths from the disease, LifeSite News reported."
jshell said:
Irreparable damage - we now have higher excess deaths than during Covid, an economy on it's ass, possibly a forthcoming economic crash and people who've been unable to get much needed treatments.. That is going to be long lasting.
Aquired immunity is what we would have had if we hadn't tried to vaccinate in the middle of a pandemic. It's also obvious now that mutations are caused by the provably leaky vaccines. Immunology class 1.
Staff who worked through the first wave were proven to have antibodies from repeat exposure, which is how herd immunity would have happened!!
Herd immunity cannot be achieved now as people have had their immune systems trained by a vaccine designed for the early variants not the later ones. Shown by even the UK Govts own numbers and predicted early on by virologists.
The fact that you don't know any of this stuff just shows you are here to shout "CT" from the rooftops.
I'll leave you to your inane ramblings and utter lack of knowledge and logic.
And the answer to The Question is, once again, a very convincing "Why, yes, they are!"Aquired immunity is what we would have had if we hadn't tried to vaccinate in the middle of a pandemic. It's also obvious now that mutations are caused by the provably leaky vaccines. Immunology class 1.
Staff who worked through the first wave were proven to have antibodies from repeat exposure, which is how herd immunity would have happened!!
Herd immunity cannot be achieved now as people have had their immune systems trained by a vaccine designed for the early variants not the later ones. Shown by even the UK Govts own numbers and predicted early on by virologists.
The fact that you don't know any of this stuff just shows you are here to shout "CT" from the rooftops.
I'll leave you to your inane ramblings and utter lack of knowledge and logic.
jshell said:
You need to re-tune your shouting/intelligence ratio. But, I'll leave you to your delusions.
Oh, and I'll take a Nobel laureate over your rantings any day: https://telanganatoday.com/mass-vaccination-during...
"French virologist and Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier called mass vaccination against the coronavirus during the pandemic “unthinkable” and a historical blunder that is “creating the variants” and leading to deaths from the disease, LifeSite News reported."
"LifeSiteNews is a Canadian Catholic conservative anti-abortion advocacy website and news publication. LifeSiteNews has published misleading information and conspiracy theories, and in 2021, was banned from some social media platforms for spreading COVID-19 misinformation."Oh, and I'll take a Nobel laureate over your rantings any day: https://telanganatoday.com/mass-vaccination-during...
"French virologist and Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier called mass vaccination against the coronavirus during the pandemic “unthinkable” and a historical blunder that is “creating the variants” and leading to deaths from the disease, LifeSite News reported."
"Why, yes, they are!"
And so much fun to poke with a stick and laugh at.
bodhi said:
When you say "The Great Declaration bunch" I assume you mean the Great Barrington Declaration, which was put together by 3 highly qualified and experienced scientists based on classical epidemiological principles and ultimately put into practice by most governments worldwide - including China.
You mean that bunch?
Anyway I was just wondering what our Captains of Logic thought of the less obvious conspiracy theories often peddled on social media? I'm talking about the likes of:
- Boris wasn't really ill with COVID when he was admitted to hospital, recently repeated by Alastair Campbell
- The Tories want to sell the NHS off to their mates and bring in a US System, repeated by most of Twitter.
- The entire axis of evil in the UK is based in Tufton Street London, as often repeated by Monbiot.
- Just about anything ever printed in the Byline Times.
Personally to me they sound just as nutty and lacking evidence as the earth being flat and birds being real, however they seem remarkably absent from this thread? Is it a status thing?
Yes, the Great Barrington bunch. I'm sure that they are very qualified, almost as much as Wakefield was qualified on MMR. Given where their funding comes from, I'm totally unsurprised by their conclusions. Like, at all. You mean that bunch?
Anyway I was just wondering what our Captains of Logic thought of the less obvious conspiracy theories often peddled on social media? I'm talking about the likes of:
- Boris wasn't really ill with COVID when he was admitted to hospital, recently repeated by Alastair Campbell
- The Tories want to sell the NHS off to their mates and bring in a US System, repeated by most of Twitter.
- The entire axis of evil in the UK is based in Tufton Street London, as often repeated by Monbiot.
- Just about anything ever printed in the Byline Times.
Personally to me they sound just as nutty and lacking evidence as the earth being flat and birds being real, however they seem remarkably absent from this thread? Is it a status thing?
I do love MAGAesque name, it seems to appeal to certain strata of society.
As for your examples;
- AC, wasn't he a spin-doctor for TB? If so, I'd give his opinion on anything as much relevance as I'd give a frustrated, I-wanna-get-as-many-clicks-as-possible nurse trainer desperate to pass as a doctor.
- Most of the Twitter, eh? (You made that up, didn't you?). Andrew Lansley, ex health-sec took a role @ Bains & Co. You can also read up on Matthew and Sarah Elliot (he of vote Leave, and she of Republicans Overseas UK fame) and their 'advisory' roles with US healthcare 'providers'. You could also choose to read Direct Democracy By Carswell Raab Hunt and Co. If you are still confused, after reading, I'll be happy to help you.
- Not sure about 'axis of evil', but quite a few of the 'think tanks', really lobbying groups with rather misleading names, and hidden funding; 'IEA', 'Taxpayers Alliance' are based there. I, for one, have very little time for Mark Littlewood and Co, who were lobbying against health warnings on cigarettes, because they were funded by tobacco groups.
- I had to google who Byline Times are, and as such have no opinion on them. The irony of you complaining about them while quoting 'unheard' is not lost. Might as well quote 'order-order' or 'conservative woman' (now that's my favourite CTs outlets).
Still fun though.
Zumbruk said:
jshell said:
"The Great Barrington Declaration – As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists ...
Two lies within the first 12 words. Only one of the 3 principal authors is a "epidemiologist(s) and public health scientist(s)". The other 2 are economists.The 3 lead authors were Sunetra Gupta (Oxford), Martin Kuldorff (Harvard) and Jay Bhattacharya (Stanford). Which 2 are economists only with no association or experience in public health?
LF5335 said:
jshell said:
I've never actually read the GBD, until now. Have you? It appears to be a lot of common sense and pointed out what has actually come to pass, so here's an extract:
"Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results (to name a few) include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health – leading to greater excess mortality in years to come, with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice. "
This also seems pretty fair:
"Adopting measures to protect the vulnerable should be the central aim of public health responses to COVID-19. By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home. When possible, they should meet family members outside rather than inside. A comprehensive and detailed list of measures, including approaches to multi-generational households, can be implemented, and is well within the scope and capability of public health professionals. "
This also seems to follow the science of virology:
"Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity."
Can you please point out the 'garbage'?
All of it. It’s that simple. The prefacing that you’ve quoted is simply blurb to try to build credibility. It’s simply suggesting that we lock up the old and infirm, let everyone else do what they want and hope herd immunity kicks in. There is absolutely no scenario planning around the risks that would have driven when it was written. "Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results (to name a few) include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health – leading to greater excess mortality in years to come, with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice. "
This also seems pretty fair:
"Adopting measures to protect the vulnerable should be the central aim of public health responses to COVID-19. By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home. When possible, they should meet family members outside rather than inside. A comprehensive and detailed list of measures, including approaches to multi-generational households, can be implemented, and is well within the scope and capability of public health professionals. "
This also seems to follow the science of virology:
"Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity."
Can you please point out the 'garbage'?
Please don’t quote out of context snippets and pretend that it’s somehow impressive. It’s not. It has zero substance, the random example given around nursing home staff has no bearing on what could be achieved globally or nationally.
I’m not dissecting it line by line.
Seventy said:
Aaaand this thread has been surreptitiously invaded by the covid ultras again.
Why do they think that CT always means them?
Seems to be a worryingly large amount of paranoia.
Kettling has its uses.
a housemate at uni once left a message saying "fWhy do they think that CT always means them?
Seems to be a worryingly large amount of paranoia.
Kettling has its uses.
k off" inside a packet of some food that one of our other housemates kept stealing. Of course the thief one took the hump about it, once she saw it, whilst stealing more of the food. It's quite a similar thing i think. Zumbruk said:
jshell said:
You need to re-tune your shouting/intelligence ratio. But, I'll leave you to your delusions.
Oh, and I'll take a Nobel laureate over your rantings any day: https://telanganatoday.com/mass-vaccination-during...
"French virologist and Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier called mass vaccination against the coronavirus during the pandemic “unthinkable” and a historical blunder that is “creating the variants” and leading to deaths from the disease, LifeSite News reported."
"LifeSiteNews is a Canadian Catholic conservative anti-abortion advocacy website and news publication. LifeSiteNews has published misleading information and conspiracy theories, and in 2021, was banned from some social media platforms for spreading COVID-19 misinformation."Oh, and I'll take a Nobel laureate over your rantings any day: https://telanganatoday.com/mass-vaccination-during...
"French virologist and Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier called mass vaccination against the coronavirus during the pandemic “unthinkable” and a historical blunder that is “creating the variants” and leading to deaths from the disease, LifeSite News reported."
"Why, yes, they are!"
And so much fun to poke with a stick and laugh at.
isaldiri said:
Why stop at mere kettling and not something more unpleasant to punish all the bad CTers....?
Not sure what you’re on about. But being as I don’t see you as one - although I think that you feel rather left out at times and struggle with that - then I can’t help you.
CTers has no meaning btw. You mean CT’s as in conspiracy theorist(‘s).
Seventy said:
isaldiri said:
Why stop at mere kettling and not something more unpleasant to punish all the bad CTers....?
Not sure what you’re on about. But being as I don’t see you as one - although I think that you feel rather left out at times and struggle with that - then I can’t help you.
CTers has no meaning btw. You mean CT’s as in conspiracy theorist(‘s).
Zumbruk said:
Most CTers are perfect demonstrations of Dunning Kruger syndrome and you are no exception
captain_cynic said:
I fully expect the resident CTers to utterly ignore it as they've DoNe ThEiR rEsEaRcH.
LF5335 said:
Isn’t the argument the opposite from the CTers?
tangerine_sedge said:
I think those 3 video clips illustrate perfectly how people can find themselves at the fringes of political activity without really realising how they got there. It's not a stretch to think that similar applies to CTers...
Zumbruk said:
jshell said:
You need to re-tune your shouting/intelligence ratio. But, I'll leave you to your delusions.
Oh, and I'll take a Nobel laureate over your rantings any day: https://telanganatoday.com/mass-vaccination-during...
"French virologist and Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier called mass vaccination against the coronavirus during the pandemic “unthinkable” and a historical blunder that is “creating the variants” and leading to deaths from the disease, LifeSite News reported."
"LifeSiteNews is a Canadian Catholic conservative anti-abortion advocacy website and news publication. LifeSiteNews has published misleading information and conspiracy theories, and in 2021, was banned from some social media platforms for spreading COVID-19 misinformation."Oh, and I'll take a Nobel laureate over your rantings any day: https://telanganatoday.com/mass-vaccination-during...
"French virologist and Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier called mass vaccination against the coronavirus during the pandemic “unthinkable” and a historical blunder that is “creating the variants” and leading to deaths from the disease, LifeSite News reported."
"Why, yes, they are!"
And so much fun to poke with a stick and laugh at.
In 2017, 106 academic scientists wrote an open letter "calling [Montagnier] to order". The letter read: "We, academics of medicine, cannot accept that one of our peers is using his Nobel prize [status] to spread dangerous health messages outside of his field of knowledge."[47]
For his defense of such anti-scientific views, Montagnier has been cited as an example of the phenomenon called Nobel disease”
isaldiri said:
Seventy said:
isaldiri said:
Why stop at mere kettling and not something more unpleasant to punish all the bad CTers....?
Not sure what you’re on about. But being as I don’t see you as one - although I think that you feel rather left out at times and struggle with that - then I can’t help you.
CTers has no meaning btw. You mean CT’s as in conspiracy theorist(‘s).
Zumbruk said:
Most CTers are perfect demonstrations of Dunning Kruger syndrome and you are no exception
captain_cynic said:
I fully expect the resident CTers to utterly ignore it as they've DoNe ThEiR rEsEaRcH.
LF5335 said:
Isn’t the argument the opposite from the CTers?
tangerine_sedge said:
I think those 3 video clips illustrate perfectly how people can find themselves at the fringes of political activity without really realising how they got there. It's not a stretch to think that similar applies to CTers...
All you're doing is proving our point for us and then claiming victimhood.
Something most people have figured out by their teenage years... If you act like an idiot, people are going to treat you like an idiot.
Zumbruk said:
More topics CT-ers don't understand; Tragedy of the commons, tipping points.
Sounds great. Plausible, even.Maybe one reason CTists don't understand such concepts is that they haven't experienced them.
Where is the population bomb? Billions didn't starve.
Where are the tipping points? Still waiting after decades of alarmism - eternally imminent like the continually renewed "points of no return".
Spreading unfounded fear, dressed up as credible science is very dangerous, makes people do really stupid things.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/book-inc...
Kawasicki said:
Zumbruk said:
More topics CT-ers don't understand; Tragedy of the commons, tipping points.
Sounds great. Plausible, even.Maybe one reason CTists don't understand such concepts is that they haven't experienced them.
Where is the population bomb? Billions didn't starve.
Where are the tipping points? Still waiting after decades of alarmism - eternally imminent like the continually renewed "points of no return".
Spreading unfounded fear, dressed up as credible science is very dangerous, makes people do really stupid things.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/book-inc...
Kawasicki said:
Sounds great. Plausible, even.
Maybe one reason CTists don't understand such concepts is that they haven't experienced them.
Where is the population bomb? Billions didn't starve.
Where are the tipping points? Still waiting after decades of alarmism - eternally imminent like the continually renewed "points of no return".
Spreading unfounded fear, dressed up as credible science is very dangerous, makes people do really stupid things.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/book-inc...
In summary a social inadequate who specialises in insect science, writes an OTT book on population growth, which is completely outside his knowledge base. His book was largely ignored by everyone until he put on a charm offensive on a well watched TV show and then he became a star and people latched onto it. Maybe one reason CTists don't understand such concepts is that they haven't experienced them.
Where is the population bomb? Billions didn't starve.
Where are the tipping points? Still waiting after decades of alarmism - eternally imminent like the continually renewed "points of no return".
Spreading unfounded fear, dressed up as credible science is very dangerous, makes people do really stupid things.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/book-inc...
He sounds much more like the type that CTers would latch on to as proof that what he was writing is absolutely going to happen.
LF5335 said:
Kawasicki said:
Sounds great. Plausible, even.
Maybe one reason CTists don't understand such concepts is that they haven't experienced them.
Where is the population bomb? Billions didn't starve.
Where are the tipping points? Still waiting after decades of alarmism - eternally imminent like the continually renewed "points of no return".
Spreading unfounded fear, dressed up as credible science is very dangerous, makes people do really stupid things.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/book-inc...
In summary a social inadequate who specialises in insect science, writes an OTT book on population growth, which is completely outside his knowledge base. His book was largely ignored by everyone until he put on a charm offensive on a well watched TV show and then he became a star and people latched onto it. Maybe one reason CTists don't understand such concepts is that they haven't experienced them.
Where is the population bomb? Billions didn't starve.
Where are the tipping points? Still waiting after decades of alarmism - eternally imminent like the continually renewed "points of no return".
Spreading unfounded fear, dressed up as credible science is very dangerous, makes people do really stupid things.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/book-inc...
He sounds much more like the type that CTers would latch on to as proof that what he was writing is absolutely going to happen.
It's just typical CT trolling.
isaldiri said:
Zumbruk said:
jshell said:
"The Great Barrington Declaration – As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists ...
Two lies within the first 12 words. Only one of the 3 principal authors is a "epidemiologist(s) and public health scientist(s)". The other 2 are economists.The 3 lead authors were Sunetra Gupta (Oxford), Martin Kuldorff (Harvard) and Jay Bhattacharya (Stanford). Which 2 are economists only with no association or experience in public health?
Please note that lies in support of lies are still lies.
Edited by Zumbruk on Friday 24th March 11:42
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