Things that annoy you beyond reason...(Vol. 7)

[snuffy]

I know we have had the topic of restaurants adding on gratuities automatically, and so on that topic, I had this happen yesterday:

We were in a restaurant, and it does say on the menu that an optional 8.5% will be added to your bill. I know this place started doing this maybe 2 years ago, and it would change, sometimes it would be 10%, sometimes 12.5%. On Trip Advisor, when this started, a few reviews on TA about the place mentioned this, and the fact that the reviewers was not happy about it.

Anyway, I asked for the bill, and the person that brought it over said "There's a discretionary 8.5% service charge, but I'd like to point out it's completely optional". They had even underlined it on the bill with a pen.

As I was paying by tap, they went off to get the machine. Another person then arrived with the machine, and again, stated about the service charge, and that it was entirely optional, and asked if I was happy to leave it on.

I did leave it on, but I wonder why they were so keen to state (twice), that they would remove it if i wanted ? I mean, it's not the staff who have added it on, that's the management.

[Pit Pony]

generationx said:

RustyMX5 said:

Pit Pony said:

If i travel alone it is efficient and relatively stress free.
If I travel with wife, family or work colleagues it's all very stressful. I've no idea why.

I find exactly the same thing. Although the wife triples or quadruples the stress levels.

It’s like herding cats, even simple tasks and processes attract insane amounts of faffing and misunderstanding.

No, it's the being controlled by other's and the way they do things.

Take for instance, landing at Schiphol on Sunday afternoon. On my own for work. Going to get a train. No particular time constraints.
I'm going to Eindhoven, but not sure where the train I want ends up, so I buy a ticket at a machine, walk towards the information board. Not helpful as I'm probably not quite switched on enough. Eventually I work out that in 5 mins there's a train, or if I were to miss it, it would be 35 mins.

If I'd been my wife, she would have had a full timetable printed out, she'd have bought tickets in advance (they are no cheaper in Holland if you buy in advance) for a particular train, and because our flight was delayed we'd be rushing to get that particular train.

Despite it being me on my own, she'd already tried to argue that my luggage would not fit the requirement for carry on, despite me having used it on KLM before. I won that by getting a tape measure out.

And insisting that I leave home in "good" time, 45 mins before I had planned, which meant that I was through security checking with enough time to catch the earlier flight (except my ticket wpuldnt allow that)
I had a full 2.5 hours waiting at Manchester. When my plan was just over an hour.

My only advance planning was to find out that 2 intercity trains went every hour and if I missed one that would give me the opportunity to have a coffee and people watch.
And that the hotel was walking distance from the Station.

[Cotty]

snuffy said:

I know we have had the topic of restaurants adding on gratuities automatically, and so on that topic, I had this happen yesterday:

We were in a restaurant, and it does say on the menu that an optional 8.5% will be added to your bill. I know this place started doing this maybe 2 years ago, and it would change, sometimes it would be 10%, sometimes 12.5%. On Trip Advisor, when this started, a few reviews on TA about the place mentioned this, and the fact that the reviewers was not happy about it.

Anyway, I asked for the bill, and the person that brought it over said "There's a discretionary 8.5% service charge, but I'd like to point out it's completely optional". They had even underlined it on the bill with a pen.

As I was paying by tap, they went off to get the machine. Another person then arrived with the machine, and again, stated about the service charge, and that it was entirely optional, and asked if I was happy to leave it on.

I did leave it on, but I wonder why they were so keen to state (twice), that they would remove it if i wanted ? I mean, it's not the staff who have added it on, that's the management.

Perhaps the service charge does not filter down to the waiting staff and they were hoping for a cash tip that they could pocket.

[snuffy]

Cotty said:

Perhaps the service charge does not filter down to the waiting staff and they were hoping for a cash tip that they could pocket.

I didn't get that impression. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that maybe they get complaints about it? The clientele is generally older, and I think you can say, in general, older people are not happy about adding services charges on as the default position.

The menu does say the charge is "split evenly amongst the entire team".

It just seems odd to add it on, and then be so prominent in telling you that it can be removed.

[Mercdriver]

I always ask if staff get tips, usually answer is yes, probably split between waiters and chefs, which is fair.

If they reply no, then I deduct tips from bill and give them cash, on their conscience to share it with chefs.

On the other hand maybe chefs are paid well and do not depend on tips for a reasonable wage?

This system is down to owners, on quiet days their labour costs are reduced because they are too miserable to pay a decent wage so the staff rely on tips to make up their wages.

Medieval system that should be binned

[Hackney]

When you ask for a double espresso and get a small cup of coffee.

This cup was actually full when brought to me. I think a lot of people assume it’s a double espresso cup so it needs to be filled.

Once ended up having an argument with (presumably the) manager of a beach front Weymouth cafe after one of his staff gave me a normal Americano size cup half full of coffee when I asked for my double espresso.

“This isn’t a double espresso, which is a short, strong drink, this a small mug of coffee”
“You’re getting more than you asked for what are you complaining about”
“But it’s not the drink I asked for”
“You’re getting better value, what’s wrong with you”
And repeat.

[snuffy]

I've often wondered whether a double espresso means it's double the size of a normal one, or twice as strong as a normal one?

[Hackney]

snuffy said:

I've often wondered whether a double espresso means it's double the size of a normal one, or twice as strong as a normal one?

Both. Sort of.
It’s an espresso plus an espresso.
Ratio of coffee to water is the same in a double as an espresso so not stronger in that sense.
But you’re getting more caffeine because it’s twice the size.

[snuffy]

Hackney said:

snuffy said:

I've often wondered whether a double espresso means it's double the size of a normal one, or twice as strong as a normal one?

Both. Sort of.
It’s an espresso plus an espresso.
Ratio of coffee to water is the same in a double as an espresso so not stronger in that sense.
But you’re getting more caffeine because it’s twice the size.

Ah, I see.

If I ordered a double whiskey, I'd get twice as much volume of whiskey, and therefore twice as much alcohol, as opposed to getting a whiskey that is the same size as a single, but was 80% instead of 40%.

I remember a few years ago, someone coming into a meeting with the smallest paper Cafe Nero cup you have ever seen, putting it down on the desk and saying "Now that was not what I was expecting at all". It seems he did not know what an expresso was, but had ordered one anyway, and was clearly disappointed with the size of his purchase. He had real abject look on his face !

[NRG1976]

snuffy said:

Cotty said:

Perhaps the service charge does not filter down to the waiting staff and they were hoping for a cash tip that they could pocket.

I didn't get that impression. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that maybe they get complaints about it? The clientele is generally older, and I think you can say, in general, older people are not happy about adding services charges on as the default position.

The menu does say the charge is "split evenly amongst the entire team".

It just seems odd to add it on, and then be so prominent in telling you that it can be removed.

It’s about transparency, the staff have been told to make sure customers are aware that the tip has been included.

The hope is that by doing this customer don’t feel hoodwinked and that the staff will still receive the tip as most people would be embarrassed (social pressure) to say remove the tip.

[NRG1976]

Premier league players forming a huddle before a match, on the pitch. They have come out the dressing room so all know what is needed and motivated each other, the huddle is just for optics.

A lot of the time I do wonder if in the huddle players are saying “right lads, today we want to start of slow, be sloppy with the ball, and not put much effort in”, as some of the football immediately after such huddled is often dire

[RizzoTheRat]

Pit Pony said:

I'm going to Eindhoven, but not sure where the train I want ends up, so I buy a ticket at a machine, walk towards the information board. Not helpful as I'm probably not quite switched on enough. Eventually I work out that in 5 mins there's a train, or if I were to miss it, it would be 35 mins.

At the risk of applying a level of organisation your wife would be happy with, I recommend the 9292 website or app for Dutch public transport. You can now tap in and out with a debit/credit card rather than buying a ticket too.

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Saturday 20th April 22:13

[r3g]

NRG1976 said:

It’s about transparency, the staff have been told to make sure customers are aware that the tip has been included.

The hope is that by doing this customer don’t feel hoodwinked and that the staff will still receive the tip as most people would be embarrassed (social pressure) to say remove the tip.

That is exactly what it's all about. It's a reverse psychology thing and very much intentional by the staff. It's basically extortion - obtaining something (money in this case) by deception or psychological pressure. I'm not averse to tipping generously for good service/attention but I would remove their "optional" charge just as a matter of principle. It's this kind of BS practice that makes ordering in a take-away a more attractive proposition these days.

[snuffy]

r3g said:

That is exactly what it's all about. It's a reverse psychology thing and very much intentional by the staff. It's basically extortion - obtaining something (money in this case) by deception or psychological pressure. I'm not averse to tipping generously for good service/attention but I would remove their "optional" charge just as a matter of principle. It's this kind of BS practice that makes ordering in a take-away a more attractive proposition these days.

So by labouring the point about it being optional, the idea is that you will leave it on, as they hope you with think "that's very up front of them, as opposed to being sneaky and hoping I don't notice"?

You may well have a point, I'd not considered that.

[NRG1976]

snuffy said:

r3g said:

That is exactly what it's all about. It's a reverse psychology thing and very much intentional by the staff. It's basically extortion - obtaining something (money in this case) by deception or psychological pressure. I'm not averse to tipping generously for good service/attention but I would remove their "optional" charge just as a matter of principle. It's this kind of BS practice that makes ordering in a take-away a more attractive proposition these days.

So by labouring the point about it being optional, the idea is that you will leave it on, as they hope you with think "that's very up front of them, as opposed to being sneaky and hoping I don't notice"?

You may well have a point, I'd not considered that.

No, more so you’ll look like a penny pinching bd to the staff and those on tables around you. That itself creates enough social pressure for people to not ask for the tip to be removed.

[r3g]

snuffy said:

r3g said:

That is exactly what it's all about. It's a reverse psychology thing and very much intentional by the staff. It's basically extortion - obtaining something (money in this case) by deception or psychological pressure. I'm not averse to tipping generously for good service/attention but I would remove their "optional" charge just as a matter of principle. It's this kind of BS practice that makes ordering in a take-away a more attractive proposition these days.

So by labouring the point about it being optional, the idea is that you will leave it on, as they hope you with think "that's very up front of them, as opposed to being sneaky and hoping I don't notice"?

You may well have a point, I'd not considered that.

No, I'm of the same opinion as NRG in his/her response above. I doubt anyone would genuinely think "that's very up front of them" when being told about it. Essentially they have already made the decision for you to tip them, irrespective of whether or not their service and/or attention deserves it, and I would think that practice would not sit well with most folks, but how many folk would have the balls to go against the social peer pressure with friends/ family/work colleagues and neighbouring diners sat alongside and ask for their self-imposed "optional" tip to be removed from the balance? Very very few, I expect, and they know this. Personally I would not be dining there again.

[popeyewhite]

r3g said:

snuffy said:

r3g said:

That is exactly what it's all about. It's a reverse psychology thing and very much intentional by the staff. It's basically extortion - obtaining something (money in this case) by deception or psychological pressure. I'm not averse to tipping generously for good service/attention but I would remove their "optional" charge just as a matter of principle. It's this kind of BS practice that makes ordering in a take-away a more attractive proposition these days.

So by labouring the point about it being optional, the idea is that you will leave it on, as they hope you with think "that's very up front of them, as opposed to being sneaky and hoping I don't notice"?

You may well have a point, I'd not considered that.

No, I'm of the same opinion as NRG in his/her response above. I doubt anyone would genuinely think "that's very up front of them" when being told about it. Essentially they have already made the decision for you to tip them, irrespective of whether or not their service and/or attention deserves it, and I would think that practice would not sit well with most folks, but how many folk would have the balls to go against the social peer pressure with friends/ family/work colleagues and neighbouring diners sat alongside and ask for their self-imposed "optional" tip to be removed from the balance? Very very few, I expect, and they know this. Personally I would not be dining there again.

People have complained so they're covering their arses. There's no such thing as reverse psychology btw, not in the world of proper psychology. The term doesn't even make sense. I imagine people mean underhand attempt at mental manipulation or somesuch.

[Pit Pony]

popeyewhite said:

r3g said:

snuffy said:

r3g said:

That is exactly what it's all about. It's a reverse psychology thing and very much intentional by the staff. It's basically extortion - obtaining something (money in this case) by deception or psychological pressure. I'm not averse to tipping generously for good service/attention but I would remove their "optional" charge just as a matter of principle. It's this kind of BS practice that makes ordering in a take-away a more attractive proposition these days.

So by labouring the point about it being optional, the idea is that you will leave it on, as they hope you with think "that's very up front of them, as opposed to being sneaky and hoping I don't notice"?

You may well have a point, I'd not considered that.

No, I'm of the same opinion as NRG in his/her response above. I doubt anyone would genuinely think "that's very up front of them" when being told about it. Essentially they have already made the decision for you to tip them, irrespective of whether or not their service and/or attention deserves it, and I would think that practice would not sit well with most folks, but how many folk would have the balls to go against the social peer pressure with friends/ family/work colleagues and neighbouring diners sat alongside and ask for their self-imposed "optional" tip to be removed from the balance? Very very few, I expect, and they know this. Personally I would not be dining there again.

People have complained so they're covering their arses. There's no such thing as reverse psychology btw, not in the world of proper psychology. The term doesn't even make sense. I imagine people mean underhand attempt at mental manipulation or somesuch.

I've said on occassion, could you remove the tip, if I want to.leave one, I'll put cash on the table, which will indicate how happy I was, after I've left.
Recently, in the UK, I've not been impressed by service or food. So have left nothing. You can't complain about mediocre. Just try somewhere else next time

[carlo996]

People at airports. Why are they so baffled? But worse are baffled in business class. For this, there is no excuse. You should know your belt has to come off, and that loose change will set the machine off. Then you should wait in line with everyone else and when you take your things from the tray….put it in the stacker, don’t leave it there empty fking up the rest of the line. Inconsiderate assholes. Also T3. Is there no better solution to herding everyone into the self scan than a single person sized gate and a chaotic line of angry passengers?

[snuffy]

What we are saying then is that automatically adding a tip on, then labouring the point that they will remove it (without me even mentioning it), is a bigger 's trick than just adding it on and saying nothing?