Ask an Engineer anything
Discussion
GliderRider said:
and if its in a helicopter gearbox, 'plop' or 'crunch' shortly after...
That’s why we use HUMS after every flight. It’s pretty good now after 30 plus years of development. It can even pinpoint which tooth in a gear is starting to wear before a shred of metal is worn. It’s also why track and balance is so good as we can adjust each night to a certain level without a test flight. Fusion777 said:
DozyGit said:
Excellent thread OP!
Neighbours grand child wants to study similar sort of engineering or few other avenues. They asked about pay and progression from a realistic perspective.
Starting pay with say 2:1 degree
Say in 5 years
10 years
And likely peak at what level of experience
Typical job security
Work hours with relation to pay
Typical perks
Big stresses.
I will pass on your message to them, said lad restored an old car at school and got a prize, so keen but worried!
No problem! Let me know what your/their thoughts are. More than happy to answer more questions, however trivial they may seem! Good luck to them.Neighbours grand child wants to study similar sort of engineering or few other avenues. They asked about pay and progression from a realistic perspective.
Starting pay with say 2:1 degree
Say in 5 years
10 years
And likely peak at what level of experience
Typical job security
Work hours with relation to pay
Typical perks
Big stresses.
I will pass on your message to them, said lad restored an old car at school and got a prize, so keen but worried!
Starting pay with say 2:1 degree
About £26-£31k on a graduate scheme, generally speaking. Chemical/Oil & Gas will be more (low-mid 30s).
Say in 5 years
Low/mid 30s if you’re in the same role. Possibly more if you move around or achieve promotion- high 30s/low 40s in that case. There are always other factors to take into account such as bonus, overtime, contracting etc which can add onto the total. I got a 14% rise in my first year, but haven’t had anything near that since!
10 years
Here, the divergence gets greater depending on the path you take. Should be mid 30s minimum, high 30s and low 40s more likely. With a promotion, mid 40s likely.
And likely peak at what level of experience
Depends if you include management positions or not. Principle/Lead Engineer, you’re looking at £45-60k, maybe a bit more for software, which isn’t my field. Most people in these positions are going to have 15 years+ experience. Management of course can bring more, as you can go all the way to director/board level, as with many career paths.
Typical job security
Very good. Haven’t been out of work in 10 years, though we furloughed some staff last year. Hopefully a pandemic is a one off! Have seen a round of redundancies, but all engineering staff were kept on.
Work hours with relation to pay
Pretty good. I’ve had 37 (which was brilliant) and 39 hour contracts, and most of the time you can finish at a reasonable time. Outages and deadlines can sometimes cause you to stay on, but it’s typically not bad. The more you can plan, the easier your life will be.
Typical perks
Depends on firm, larger firms seem to be better. Have seen (not all at the same firm) Bupa, above industry average payments into pensions, £1/month gym membership, flexitime, annual bonus scheme linked to profits, opportunities for overtime (did some work over a Xmas period (not the main holiday days) one year which worked out at quadruple pay, which was very, very nice! This has only happened once though).
You get to work with exciting technology, smart people that aren’t solely focused on money/career progression, and get good job satisfaction from physically making things and seeing (hopefully) concrete results at the end of your work. Not having to work crazy numbers of hours.
Big stresses
Varies from firm to firm. Can be very tight deadlines to work to. Work can be requested at very short notice. Sometimes high workload, with lots of conflicting tasks/priorities. Poor communication can be a pain, but you can find this anywhere in any industry.
Edited by Fusion777 on Friday 2nd April 13:50
Edited by Fusion777 on Friday 2nd April 13:51
I can only talk hourly rates for contract roles, but Aerospace in East Midlands £35 to £40
Aerospace in Preston or West Manchester £28 to £30
Barrow £45
Automotive North West £25 to £30
Automotive West Midlands £28 to £35
Defence, somewhere south £40 to £45
Would all gave been outside IR35 and now inside IR35 with no change in rate.
Currently working in defence near Coventry, but mostly from home in Merseyside outside IR35 for £40 an hour.
Holding in the bag a contract at Barrow for £45 but it's inside and not much chance to work from home.
So whilst rate is higher the end cash in pocket will be £8 an hour less approx than current.
I reckon the going rate for my £40 an hour contract is £40k to £55k if it were permie
The last permie job I had was £36k in Skelmersdale, and my mate was doing a similar role in Derby on £55k in 2010
Pay in Engineering roles can be an absolute roller coaster. I'm an Instrument / Control Systems Engineer with a specialism for control and shutdown systems in high-hazard industries, for the last 10 years I've contracted where the generally accepted rate is north of £50 p/h.
Move that into a permanent based role and the salary element of the package tends to top out at £65k, if you're working in Oil and Gas as a Technical Authority this may creep into £70k.
When COVID hit last year the project i was working on wound up and I was looking for a filler role, ending up with 5 offers ranging from £45k up to £65k - subsequently I took a job abroad, later a job back in the UK contracting.
Move that into a permanent based role and the salary element of the package tends to top out at £65k, if you're working in Oil and Gas as a Technical Authority this may creep into £70k.
When COVID hit last year the project i was working on wound up and I was looking for a filler role, ending up with 5 offers ranging from £45k up to £65k - subsequently I took a job abroad, later a job back in the UK contracting.
Pete102 said:
Pay in Engineering roles can be an absolute roller coaster. I'm an Instrument / Control Systems Engineer with a specialism for control and shutdown systems in high-hazard industries, for the last 10 years I've contracted where the generally accepted rate is north of £50 p/h.
Move that into a permanent based role and the salary element of the package tends to top out at £65k, if you're working in Oil and Gas as a Technical Authority this may creep into £70k.
When COVID hit last year the project i was working on wound up and I was looking for a filler role, ending up with 5 offers ranging from £45k up to £65k - subsequently I took a job abroad, later a job back in the UK contracting.
TA3 perhaps. TA2 and more likely 1's you're looking at >90k+bonus(20% OTE) and shares at the majors in the UK. (usually at least 1 or 2 grades above OIM)Move that into a permanent based role and the salary element of the package tends to top out at £65k, if you're working in Oil and Gas as a Technical Authority this may creep into £70k.
When COVID hit last year the project i was working on wound up and I was looking for a filler role, ending up with 5 offers ranging from £45k up to £65k - subsequently I took a job abroad, later a job back in the UK contracting.
https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/BP-Instrument-T...
Just to add another layer to the "how much do engineers get paid" debate, as I said earlier in the thread, I'm a production engineer actually making stuff in the aerospace industry, I'm based in the South East and my basic is £30k plus shift plus overtime, it's around the average for my position however I get a decent package with that including full sick pay, 27 days holiday plus bank holidays, the ability to buy a further 3 days holiday through a salary sacrifice benefits scheme which also includes a cash back scheme similar to BUPA, plus other benefits including a free gym membership and a final salary pension, our MEs are around the £35-£40k mark but our design engineers are £50k+.
Forgive me for the "I'm an engineer..." thing the other week, but does anyone have suggestions about recruitment in Scotland?
Graduated 2020, MEng, currently on a short-term contract with a big rail company in the North West.
Looking to return to Glasgow, most enthusiastic about renewable energies.
He - our youngest - will be very peeved if he finds out I've posted this but he's banging his head off a wall with recruiting firms, I feel.
Not expecting job offers - ha! - but any pointers in the right direction would be very welcome.
Graduated 2020, MEng, currently on a short-term contract with a big rail company in the North West.
Looking to return to Glasgow, most enthusiastic about renewable energies.
He - our youngest - will be very peeved if he finds out I've posted this but he's banging his head off a wall with recruiting firms, I feel.
Not expecting job offers - ha! - but any pointers in the right direction would be very welcome.
Gad-Westy said:
r159 said:
bucksmanuk said:
I call myself a mechanical engineer, because that’s what I do! Qualifications, letters after name etc.… profitable products designed and on the market, world travelled, and customers pacified etc.…
My area is bearings, I’ve worked on them for 20+ years - small ones at 4 millimetre diameter and big ones at 1500 millimetre diameter -with different lubricants, oil, water, milk, hot tar, blood, nitrogen gas, methane gas, and there is still absolutely loads I don’t know on the topic.
I did have a person at a tyre place explaining to me what tyre balancing was all about, and why they did it. I just nodded.
Apologies for selective quoting….
t.
As for salaries, there is/was/maybe ways of getting a bigger slice of the cake, and it’s called contracting but it’s not for everybody. Take home pay jumped up by 85%, and in some cases the longest serving person in the drawing office was a contractor… this has happened more than once in my career…
As for a career, I genuinely struggle to see how I could do anything else with my life… On the good days – it’s as good as it gets – “I’m getting paid to do this?”
Now then, as a bearing ‘pert can you explain to the engineers at our place that you can prevent catastrophic failure by monitoring them, greasing them with the correct grade and amount and/or changing them on a planned basis, rather than ‘bearings fail’ being the answer....My area is bearings, I’ve worked on them for 20+ years - small ones at 4 millimetre diameter and big ones at 1500 millimetre diameter -with different lubricants, oil, water, milk, hot tar, blood, nitrogen gas, methane gas, and there is still absolutely loads I don’t know on the topic.
I did have a person at a tyre place explaining to me what tyre balancing was all about, and why they did it. I just nodded.
lemansky said:
In my profession, it is a standing joke amongst the whole optician body that the most difficult patients ever* are engineers, because they think they know best.
I’ve heard the worst customers for suit tailors are engineers, as they say “well, can’t you take another 10 thou off then?” I think its said more as a wind-up than anything... quite how many engineers today are having their suits tailored is another matter…. Which one suspects is linked to the points raised above on salaries…Apologies for selective quoting….
Gad-Westy said:
My feeling is that the band of pay between lower end/graduate vs. highly experienced is too narrow
I agree with the whole quote above, but I think the part here is the real key to it. I’ve known older engineers who were fantastic designers and could go “ooooh – that’s wrong!” And explain why and propose something immediately that made you think “Oh God– why didn’t I think of that?” the best at this was aged 62. They just aren't paid what they are worth to the company for digging them out of the st.As for salaries, there is/was/maybe ways of getting a bigger slice of the cake, and it’s called contracting but it’s not for everybody. Take home pay jumped up by 85%, and in some cases the longest serving person in the drawing office was a contractor… this has happened more than once in my career…
As for a career, I genuinely struggle to see how I could do anything else with my life… On the good days – it’s as good as it gets – “I’m getting paid to do this?”
Pit Pony said:
Fusion777 said:
DozyGit said:
Excellent thread OP!
Neighbours grand child wants to study similar sort of engineering or few other avenues. They asked about pay and progression from a realistic perspective.
Starting pay with say 2:1 degree
Say in 5 years
10 years
And likely peak at what level of experience
Typical job security
Work hours with relation to pay
Typical perks
Big stresses.
I will pass on your message to them, said lad restored an old car at school and got a prize, so keen but worried!
No problem! Let me know what your/their thoughts are. More than happy to answer more questions, however trivial they may seem! Good luck to them.Neighbours grand child wants to study similar sort of engineering or few other avenues. They asked about pay and progression from a realistic perspective.
Starting pay with say 2:1 degree
Say in 5 years
10 years
And likely peak at what level of experience
Typical job security
Work hours with relation to pay
Typical perks
Big stresses.
I will pass on your message to them, said lad restored an old car at school and got a prize, so keen but worried!
Starting pay with say 2:1 degree
About £26-£31k on a graduate scheme, generally speaking. Chemical/Oil & Gas will be more (low-mid 30s).
Say in 5 years
Low/mid 30s if you’re in the same role. Possibly more if you move around or achieve promotion- high 30s/low 40s in that case. There are always other factors to take into account such as bonus, overtime, contracting etc which can add onto the total. I got a 14% rise in my first year, but haven’t had anything near that since!
10 years
Here, the divergence gets greater depending on the path you take. Should be mid 30s minimum, high 30s and low 40s more likely. With a promotion, mid 40s likely.
And likely peak at what level of experience
Depends if you include management positions or not. Principle/Lead Engineer, you’re looking at £45-60k, maybe a bit more for software, which isn’t my field. Most people in these positions are going to have 15 years+ experience. Management of course can bring more, as you can go all the way to director/board level, as with many career paths.
Typical job security
Very good. Haven’t been out of work in 10 years, though we furloughed some staff last year. Hopefully a pandemic is a one off! Have seen a round of redundancies, but all engineering staff were kept on.
Work hours with relation to pay
Pretty good. I’ve had 37 (which was brilliant) and 39 hour contracts, and most of the time you can finish at a reasonable time. Outages and deadlines can sometimes cause you to stay on, but it’s typically not bad. The more you can plan, the easier your life will be.
Typical perks
Depends on firm, larger firms seem to be better. Have seen (not all at the same firm) Bupa, above industry average payments into pensions, £1/month gym membership, flexitime, annual bonus scheme linked to profits, opportunities for overtime (did some work over a Xmas period (not the main holiday days) one year which worked out at quadruple pay, which was very, very nice! This has only happened once though).
You get to work with exciting technology, smart people that aren’t solely focused on money/career progression, and get good job satisfaction from physically making things and seeing (hopefully) concrete results at the end of your work. Not having to work crazy numbers of hours.
Big stresses
Varies from firm to firm. Can be very tight deadlines to work to. Work can be requested at very short notice. Sometimes high workload, with lots of conflicting tasks/priorities. Poor communication can be a pain, but you can find this anywhere in any industry.
Edited by Fusion777 on Friday 2nd April 13:50
Edited by Fusion777 on Friday 2nd April 13:51
I can only talk hourly rates for contract roles, but Aerospace in East Midlands £35 to £40
Aerospace in Preston or West Manchester £28 to £30
Barrow £45
Automotive North West £25 to £30
Automotive West Midlands £28 to £35
Defence, somewhere south £40 to £45
Would all gave been outside IR35 and now inside IR35 with no change in rate.
Currently working in defence near Coventry, but mostly from home in Merseyside outside IR35 for £40 an hour.
Holding in the bag a contract at Barrow for £45 but it's inside and not much chance to work from home.
So whilst rate is higher the end cash in pocket will be £8 an hour less approx than current.
I reckon the going rate for my £40 an hour contract is £40k to £55k if it were permie
The last permie job I had was £36k in Skelmersdale, and my mate was doing a similar role in Derby on £55k in 2010
One of, if not the main reason I only lasted 2 years in an engineering role after getting a 1st class engineering degree. Seeing the top guys working all hours for 40 odd. Granted some (maybe most) industries are better paid than I was in (building services).
Most engineering jobs are hard work, both to get there in the first place and then to actually do the job.
I'll be earning more than any of those roles just twiddling a couple of levers driving trains around.
Something's gone seriously Pete Tong with engineering pay scales.
Bobberoo99 said:
Just to add another layer to the "how much do engineers get paid" debate, as I said earlier in the thread, I'm a production engineer actually making stuff in the aerospace industry, I'm based in the South East and my basic is £30k plus shift plus overtime, it's around the average for my position however I get a decent package with that including full sick pay, 27 days holiday plus bank holidays, the ability to buy a further 3 days holiday through a salary sacrifice benefits scheme which also includes a cash back scheme similar to BUPA, plus other benefits including a free gym membership and a final salary pension, our MEs are around the £35-£40k mark but our design engineers are £50k+.
South East ? What does the shift work.and overtime add? The final.salary pension could be worth it, but probably not. Given.that housing costs are 3 times the rest of the country, I'd have expected a salary closer to 50k, but then I'm the north west and haven't been south of Oxford for 7 years. Pit Pony said:
Bobberoo99 said:
Just to add another layer to the "how much do engineers get paid" debate, as I said earlier in the thread, I'm a production engineer actually making stuff in the aerospace industry, I'm based in the South East and my basic is £30k plus shift plus overtime, it's around the average for my position however I get a decent package with that including full sick pay, 27 days holiday plus bank holidays, the ability to buy a further 3 days holiday through a salary sacrifice benefits scheme which also includes a cash back scheme similar to BUPA, plus other benefits including a free gym membership and a final salary pension, our MEs are around the £35-£40k mark but our design engineers are £50k+.
South East ? What does the shift work.and overtime add? The final.salary pension could be worth it, but probably not. Given.that housing costs are 3 times the rest of the country, I'd have expected a salary closer to 50k, but then I'm the north west and haven't been south of Oxford for 7 years. The only way you'd break through the 40k+ barrier on the shop floor is to be able to program, set and operate the machines and be on shift, in 19/20 i had my highest ever grossing year with both shift and overtime and i hit 41k, and then the bottom fell out of the world, aerospace has been decimated, in fact engineering in general has.
To answer your initial question, earlies adds 10% and lates 20%, overtime is paid at time and a half.
Fusion777 said:
Previous said:
Surprised at top level of 50k being touted.
Company I work for / at, as well as several before in similar field (aerospace, defence, science, tech (including some software eng. divisions)) the senior engineers are more like 60-80, with dept heads and then directors on more.
Can imagine it'd be higher still in some other industries
The only "Senior Engineer" jobs I've seen advertised at £80k in the UK are at the likes of Google/Facebook, and it's really a very different field to what I and many others work in. Would be interested to hear of some of these job roles/companies, particularly with links to jobs/Glassdoor pages.Company I work for / at, as well as several before in similar field (aerospace, defence, science, tech (including some software eng. divisions)) the senior engineers are more like 60-80, with dept heads and then directors on more.
Can imagine it'd be higher still in some other industries
OpulentBob said:
I'm a senior engineer, chartered civils, and £80k is a dream unless you contract. Which was easy enough a few years ago but IR35 has kind of killed off since.
Hmm, depends how much management rubbish you take on - which is a sad indictment of this country unfortunately. Technical ability is not valued; it's all about sending emails about not hitting utilisation targets or coming up with another daft rebrand strategy.
vonuber said:
OpulentBob said:
I'm a senior engineer, chartered civils, and £80k is a dream unless you contract. Which was easy enough a few years ago but IR35 has kind of killed off since.
Hmm, depends how much management rubbish you take on - which is a sad indictment of this country unfortunately. Technical ability is not valued; it's all about sending emails about not hitting utilisation targets or coming up with another daft rebrand strategy.
T6 vanman said:
Bobberoo99 said:
To answer your initial question, earlies adds 10% and lates 20 25%, overtime is paid at time and a half. only for the first 2 hours
One of our T/Ls was caning the O/T and on shift, so £15.13 p/h + T/L rate of 17% + late shift allowance of 20% and then around 20hrs a week O/T, in the 19/20 tax year he hit £53k. Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff