Obesity, is it really an illness or a lifestyle choice?
Discussion
popeyewhite said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Why do you assume the GP considered BP, family history?
Isn't it standard practice? At my health centre if you discuss bloodwork it's done with a nurse...the GP wouldn't bother anyway.TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
We're going way off topic here though, but if you are interested in cholesterol...
I'm not particularly. Do you have any medical qualifications?
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
I think the problem is that as a society we've forgotten what healthy is. Obese is becoming normal, normal doesn't mean healthy unfortunately.
This. People generally getting bigger. But also a bigger mix of health status at different weights too obfuscate the issue.I'm just over 6'2", my weight hovers just below 14st usually.
That puts me getting on for overweight I think looking at BMI.
My real issue however is lack of exercise - despite being lighter than some I'd guess there are many heavier but healthier people out there.
popeyewhite said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Yes, I'm an accredited HCP with further nutritional training beyond my degree.
So not a GP.Also, if LDL was the big bad wolf, why is it only found as "plaques" in arteries and not veins? Cholesterol isn't injurious to the endothelium, but likely a repair mechanism to already damaged arterial walls in those with insulin resistance and high BP.
Why do those on a keto diet (not me, I hasten to add) or those on a Mediterranean diet often have VERY high overall cholesterol levels yet have the lowest risks of CVD events?
I think instead of arguing who I am or who I'm not I would prefer you actually discuss the points I'm making and why you feel I'm wrong. We can then have a discussion, rather than me saying some valid points and you not actually acknowledging them and simply saying I'm not a GP. RE my comments about pharmacy, one would perhaps find it interesting to look up who Dr David Sackett was, and what his final article was about before his demise (clue - he's the "founder" of so called "evidence based medicine").
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Mr Whippy said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
One thing I will say, if you truly want to eat healthily,and I mean really clean, it can be sodding expensive unless you grow your own fruit and veg (I don't). I buy ALL of my meat from an online butcher (Gazegill Organics) where it's all pasture raised and finished/grass fed. I buy fish from wild sources, not farmed. Organic fruit and veg where possible. As you've all seen, I don't weigh very much, but I definitely spend over £100/week on food for just me.
Worth it though, I love my food
Grass-fed chicken?Worth it though, I love my food
It’s almost like natural chicken would be more like game bird bred… though I know game birds are often fed grains from feeders.
The closest I can think of is my brother on his farm has chickens that just kick around eating stuff, but they are for eggs not the meat.
Agree generally otherwise.
Meat even 40-50 years ago was probably, generally, a lot more healthily and ethically farmed, and healthier to eat.
I recall bones in my bacon, skin like crackling and hairs on it.
Sausages that were just like minced bacon chunks.
Today everything is getting more and more screwed up to keep prices low, to likely compete with cheap rubbish from elsewhere.
The cost then is that animal welfare is reduced as they’re fed rubbish, and slaughtered in more industrialised ways, etc.
Then organic is seems as so niche it’s overly expensive due to volume.
Imo gov should start to subsidise that type of farming more, and less good farming reduce subs.
Taper us over to cheaper organic quality as standard, and have imports have to match it.
Eating animals that we increasingly feed like we feed ourselves, with processed/fast food equivalents, is just screwing up our entire food chain.
God knows what’s going to be in all this ‘plant based’ stuff… with regards processing and partial proteins, and missing fibre etc.
I’ll admit I eat a number of ‘plant based’ things but it’s to complement meat, and the plant based foods are a gnats width away from being whole foods any way.
Deeply worrying times ahead for health in the Western world imo.
Previous said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
I think the problem is that as a society we've forgotten what healthy is. Obese is becoming normal, normal doesn't mean healthy unfortunately.
This. People generally getting bigger. But also a bigger mix of health status at different weights too obfuscate the issue.I'm just over 6'2", my weight hovers just below 14st usually.
That puts me getting on for overweight I think looking at BMI.
My real issue however is lack of exercise - despite being lighter than some I'd guess there are many heavier but healthier people out there.
Sitting with a few mates over a meal and one of them mentioned he'd dropped 3 stones mostly through exercise but diet helped too.
It was remarked he was looking 'thin' but as he said he was probably at his optimum weight and it was purely because our perceptions now are that 'chunky' is the new normal.
Drawweight said:
I agree.
Sitting with a few mates over a meal and one of them mentioned he'd dropped 3 stones mostly through exercise but diet helped too.
It was remarked he was looking 'thin' but as he said he was probably at his optimum weight and it was purely because our perceptions now are that 'chunky' is the new normal .
It does seem normal for people now to be carrying "a couple of stone" extra.Sitting with a few mates over a meal and one of them mentioned he'd dropped 3 stones mostly through exercise but diet helped too.
It was remarked he was looking 'thin' but as he said he was probably at his optimum weight and it was purely because our perceptions now are that 'chunky' is the new normal .
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
I think instead of arguing who I am or who I'm not I would prefer you actually.. etc etc
Not really bothered what you'd like, just curious as to your quals as you appear to have advised a client his GP was incorrect. Yet you yourself are not any kind of doctor. Perhaps it's just the way you worded it.
popeyewhite said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
I think instead of arguing who I am or who I'm not I would prefer you actually.. etc etc
Not really bothered what you'd like, just curious as to your quals as you appear to have advised a client his GP was incorrect. Yet you yourself are not any kind of doctor.Perhaps it's just the way you worded it.
What I didn't say was that his GP wasn't giving him the information to make an informed decision about his health, and we know we should all have the relevant information to give INFORMED CONSENT when taking a drug.
We'll leave it there
sorry for seeming argumentative. Statins in particular have been bad for my family historically and ruined the quality of life of someone who still died of a heart attack and were given very little advice on diet (other than to eat more while grains......!).Cheers.
Edited by TyrannosauRoss Lex on Sunday 26th June 07:19
Mr Whippy said:
Chickens are a funny one because in nature their diets would be very diverse.
It’s almost like natural chicken would be more like game bird bred… though I know game birds are often fed grains from feeders.
The closest I can think of is my brother on his farm has chickens that just kick around eating stuff, but they are for eggs not the meat.
Agree generally otherwise.
Meat even 40-50 years ago was probably, generally, a lot more healthily and ethically farmed, and healthier to eat.
I recall bones in my bacon, skin like crackling and hairs on it.
Sausages that were just like minced bacon chunks.
Today everything is getting more and more screwed up to keep prices low, to likely compete with cheap rubbish from elsewhere.
The cost then is that animal welfare is reduced as they’re fed rubbish, and slaughtered in more industrialised ways, etc.
Then organic is seems as so niche it’s overly expensive due to volume.
Imo gov should start to subsidise that type of farming more, and less good farming reduce subs.
Taper us over to cheaper organic quality as standard, and have imports have to match it.
Eating animals that we increasingly feed like we feed ourselves, with processed/fast food equivalents, is just screwing up our entire food chain.
God knows what’s going to be in all this ‘plant based’ stuff… with regards processing and partial proteins, and missing fibre etc.
I’ll admit I eat a number of ‘plant based’ things but it’s to complement meat, and the plant based foods are a gnats width away from being whole foods any way.
Deeply worrying times ahead for health in the Western world Imo.
Very worrying. We have the push for plant based or vegan which is going to cause all sorts of problems. Soya for example has been shown to lower testosterone and reduce fertility. If being vegan one needs to be very wise about what they eat and what to supplement. A vegan diet doesn't always mean healthy (likewise many people who eat meat also have a terrible diet!!).It’s almost like natural chicken would be more like game bird bred… though I know game birds are often fed grains from feeders.
The closest I can think of is my brother on his farm has chickens that just kick around eating stuff, but they are for eggs not the meat.
Agree generally otherwise.
Meat even 40-50 years ago was probably, generally, a lot more healthily and ethically farmed, and healthier to eat.
I recall bones in my bacon, skin like crackling and hairs on it.
Sausages that were just like minced bacon chunks.
Today everything is getting more and more screwed up to keep prices low, to likely compete with cheap rubbish from elsewhere.
The cost then is that animal welfare is reduced as they’re fed rubbish, and slaughtered in more industrialised ways, etc.
Then organic is seems as so niche it’s overly expensive due to volume.
Imo gov should start to subsidise that type of farming more, and less good farming reduce subs.
Taper us over to cheaper organic quality as standard, and have imports have to match it.
Eating animals that we increasingly feed like we feed ourselves, with processed/fast food equivalents, is just screwing up our entire food chain.
God knows what’s going to be in all this ‘plant based’ stuff… with regards processing and partial proteins, and missing fibre etc.
I’ll admit I eat a number of ‘plant based’ things but it’s to complement meat, and the plant based foods are a gnats width away from being whole foods any way.
Deeply worrying times ahead for health in the Western world Imo.
I try my best to get the best quality food possible but many who don't know think things like salads at a salad bar are healthy, yet almost always cooked in industrial seed oils etc
It's very worrying, but people are unaware, and even if they were I'm not convinced they'd change their habits much, and I'm certainly convinced many people couldn't afford to eat high quality meat all the time, it's very expensive.
Previous said:
This. People generally getting bigger. But also a bigger mix of health status at different weights too obfuscate the issue.
I'm just over 6'2", my weight hovers just below 14st usually.
That puts me getting on for overweight I think looking at BMI.
My real issue however is lack of exercise - despite being lighter than some I'd guess there are many heavier but healthier people out there.
Agree with this. Also people wanting ‘fixes’ rather than working for it. I'm just over 6'2", my weight hovers just below 14st usually.
That puts me getting on for overweight I think looking at BMI.
My real issue however is lack of exercise - despite being lighter than some I'd guess there are many heavier but healthier people out there.
‘I become hungry all the time, the doctors need to come up with a solution for that to fix the obesity crisis’ - rather than someone just not eating and allowing themselves to be comfortable feeling hungry
pb8g09 said:
PositronicRay said:
I'm 63 5`10 and 11.5 stone.
A doctor I hadn't seen before remarked , 'have you always been so slight'?
Cheeky git.A doctor I hadn't seen before remarked , 'have you always been so slight'?
I must say, I find it somewhat amusing taking health advice from doctors when they are overweight and/or smoke.
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
popeyewhite said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
I think instead of arguing who I am or who I'm not I would prefer you actually.. etc etc
Not really bothered what you'd like, just curious as to your quals as you appear to have advised a client his GP was incorrect. Yet you yourself are not any kind of doctor.Perhaps it's just the way you worded it.
What I didn't say was that his GP wasn't giving him the information to make an informed decision about his health, and we know we should all have the relevant information to give INFORMED CONSENT when taking a drug.
We'll leave it there
sorry for seeming argumentative. Statins in particular have been bad for my family historically and ruined the quality of life of someone who still died of a heart attack and were given very little advice on diet (other than to eat more while grains......!).Cheers.
Edited by TyrannosauRoss Lex on Sunday 26th June 07:19
I lost a few stones and lost about 3” off my waist in about 4 weeks, by stopping having milk (as much as is possible in direct consumption), and bread (apart from once or twice a week)
My doctor at the time was a bit surprised, like an intolerance and a load of sugar (grains and milk) dumped off the diet could cause such a change.
It does seem like people can’t see the wood for the trees on a good diet.
A good measure on if you should put it in your mouth is… could you find/make/eat this yourself if you had to?
Bread? Go picking around over acres looking for seeds? Grind them down. Etc.
Modern dairy, milked, heated up, pasteurised, homogenised, stored in plastic.
Seed oils, go picking seeds, crushing them, maybe heating and cleaning and chemical concoctions. Not easy.
Deep fat frying.
Feeding your free-range animals on seed diets like corns and grain.
We’re just not adapted to this kind of diet, nor are the animals we eat… and you can spot the foods you should probably avoid by knowing if you can even easily access/make them/grow them yourself… if you can’t, don’t eat much of it, or avoid it.
Job jobbed.
My doctor at the time was a bit surprised, like an intolerance and a load of sugar (grains and milk) dumped off the diet could cause such a change.
It does seem like people can’t see the wood for the trees on a good diet.
A good measure on if you should put it in your mouth is… could you find/make/eat this yourself if you had to?
Bread? Go picking around over acres looking for seeds? Grind them down. Etc.
Modern dairy, milked, heated up, pasteurised, homogenised, stored in plastic.
Seed oils, go picking seeds, crushing them, maybe heating and cleaning and chemical concoctions. Not easy.
Deep fat frying.
Feeding your free-range animals on seed diets like corns and grain.
We’re just not adapted to this kind of diet, nor are the animals we eat… and you can spot the foods you should probably avoid by knowing if you can even easily access/make them/grow them yourself… if you can’t, don’t eat much of it, or avoid it.
Job jobbed.
knk said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
popeyewhite said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
I think instead of arguing who I am or who I'm not I would prefer you actually.. etc etc
Not really bothered what you'd like, just curious as to your quals as you appear to have advised a client his GP was incorrect. Yet you yourself are not any kind of doctor.Perhaps it's just the way you worded it.
What I didn't say was that his GP wasn't giving him the information to make an informed decision about his health, and we know we should all have the relevant information to give INFORMED CONSENT when taking a drug.
We'll leave it there
sorry for seeming argumentative. Statins in particular have been bad for my family historically and ruined the quality of life of someone who still died of a heart attack and were given very little advice on diet (other than to eat more while grains......!).Cheers.
Edited by TyrannosauRoss Lex on Sunday 26th June 07:19
ks? Anyway, I'm off for a 13 mile run to burn off some of my terribly fatty breakfast of avocado and salmon
Does anyone know how much nutritional training GPs in the UK get?
My understaning is that in the USA doctors get the equivalent of 1 or 2 days training throughout their whole education and there has been push-back when this has tried to be increased.
I'd be interested to know the UK situation. I have done a lot of personal reading on diet/nutrition and do what I feel is best for myself. I wouldn't have even considered talking to a GP about such things as I assumed it wasn't an area in which they had much knowledge.
My understaning is that in the USA doctors get the equivalent of 1 or 2 days training throughout their whole education and there has been push-back when this has tried to be increased.
I'd be interested to know the UK situation. I have done a lot of personal reading on diet/nutrition and do what I feel is best for myself. I wouldn't have even considered talking to a GP about such things as I assumed it wasn't an area in which they had much knowledge.
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