Obesity, is it really an illness or a lifestyle choice?

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

otolith said:

It would seem that people are no longer being advised to avoid dietary cholesterol, just saturated fats.

https://www.heartuk.org.uk/low-cholesterol-foods/f...

https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/cholesterol.html

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/high-cholesterol/how...

Which again, is daft. Nothing wrong with some saturated fat. Contains various things that are good for us, such as stearic acid.

I haven't read that NHS link, but "how to lower your cholesterol" doesn't fill me with confidence it's worth reading. Overall cholesterol is not an indicator of disease risk. Except if your cholesterol is very low, you're at higher risk of death. Providing your ratios and particle sizes are OK, having sky high cholesterol is fine. It's when you have vegetable oils and too much sugar when the ratios go out of whack and you get problems.

[Panda nero]

Golfgtimk28v said:

Yet an intelligent country such as Japan made a law to add accountability to fat people. So is the whole country full of idiots? Japan with one of the lowest obesity rates in the western world...

How long has Japan been in the west ?....

Have they relocated ?

[Golfgtimk28v]

Panda nero said:

How long has Japan been in the west ?....

Have they relocated ?

Developed country then. The rest of the points are correct.

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

J4CKO said:

king arthur said:

gregs656 said:

You saying this doesn’t make it true. I’ve never heard anyone express that eggs are really unhealthy.

Like I say, not convinced.

Really, it was quite widely believed myth that too many eggs would make you "egg bound". Allegedly put about by the cereal manufacturers because they wanted people to choose their cereals for breakfast instead of eggs after the egg marketing board had had some success with their campaign to "go to work on an egg". Even now, there is a thread in the Health section of this forum asking if three eggs a day is too many.

My wife rattles on at me if I have three eggs in a meal based on this old nonsense, be it an Omelette, Scrambled or whatever, but she is an 100 pound woman and I am a 200 odd pound man. I checked with the PT we had at the time and she said its fine, even asked her to drop it in the conversation but she still goes off on the three eggs diatribe about two eggs being a portion, Cholesterol and being unhealthy. I just tell her to stop going and dont care but its so annoying, if am going out for a 30/40 mile bike ride so kind of need to fuel up. I also say if I should only have two, then she should only ever have one.

Your wife is wrong. Ask her this simple question:

If cholesterol is unhealthy and bad for us, why does our liver make it?

Indeed, almost all of circulating cholesterol is not from the diet. Cholesterol is extremely beneficial to health and we will die without it.

Or this question:

If cholesterol clogs vessels, why does it only "clog" arteries, and never veins?

Clue - it's indicative that there is damage to the vessel wall BEFORE the build up of cholesterol (cholesterol is at the fire, but it doesn't mean it started it). Get your ratios checked, if they're OK you've nothing to worry about.

Get her to consider reading a Statin-free Life. Available on Amazon.

Edited by TyrannosauRoss Lex on Tuesday 25th October 12:11

[keo]

smn159 said:

keo said:

My opinion

Druggie you put that st in your body
Alcoholic you drink it
Fatty you smash the cream cakes in.

No one makes you do this. It’s all on you. No accountability for your own actions. Being fat is normalised even glamourised. It’s a disgrace.

If you are fat/ druggie/ alcoholic your access to the nhs should be void. If you really want to waste people’s time pay to go private.

My opinion

Uninformed opinions - you couldn't be arsed to get yourself educated.
Your access to discussions should be void
If you want to waste peoples time join Facebook
It's all on you

How am I not educated? I aren’t fat! It’s simple eat everything in moderation and exercise if you want to be fit and healthy (yes I know genuine cases exist and the fat can’t be helped. But how many of the population are fat? They can’t all have medical conditions. Laziness and no self control/ accountability more like)

That’s brilliant about the japs! Especially since they are home to the summo haha

Edited by keo on Tuesday 25th October 13:10

[Golfgtimk28v]

It is everything is an affliction mindset. If more people took responsibility for their own actions then the UK would be healthy and fitter .

Where does it stop when you need a crane to move people around?

[Blib]

keo said:

smn159 said:

keo said:

My opinion

Druggie you put that st in your body
Alcoholic you drink it
Fatty you smash the cream cakes in.

No one makes you do this. It’s all on you. No accountability for your own actions. Being fat is normalised even glamourised. It’s a disgrace.

If you are fat/ druggie/ alcoholic your access to the nhs should be void. If you really want to waste people’s time pay to go private.

My opinion

Uninformed opinions - you couldn't be arsed to get yourself educated.
Your access to discussions should be void
If you want to waste peoples time join Facebook
It's all on you

How am I not educated? I aren’t fat! It’s simple eat everything in moderation and exercise if you want to be fit and healthy (yes I know genuine cases exist and the fat can’t be helped. But how many of the population is fat? They can’t all have medical conditions. Laziness and no self control/ accountability more like)

That’s brilliant about the japs! Especially since they are home to the summo haha

I worked for many years in this country's foremost private specialist hospital as a psychotherapist, specialising in addiction.

Your comments demonstrate clearly that you have no understanding of the issue being discussed whatsoever.

Have a nice day.

[keo]

Blib said:

I worked for many years in this country's foremost private specialist hospital as a psychotherapist, specialising in addiction.

Your comments demonstrate clearly that you have no understanding of the issue being discussed whatsoever.

Have a nice day.

Well that escalated from me having a bit of a wind up to a professional jumping in who actually knows what they are talking about!

Maybe I have no understanding but I have seen a druggie/ alcoholic rip a family apart. It was that persons choice to do those things. We aren’t born with a can of beer in our hands.

This is why I see these issues very much black and white.

[MC Bodge]

Although nobody responded previously, I wonder what the outcome of a Fat Camp (a similar concept to the French Foreign Legion, but a bit less tough initially) would be?

I'm not seriously suggesting it should happen, but I'm intrigued as to how effective it might be in changing a 30 year old, depressed, inactive, obese man, as described as somebody's stepson in an earlier post.

Would many of the people come out of it (positively) changed people, or would they all quickly return to their previous lifestyles without an authority figure forcing them to comply?

[jagnet]

MC Bodge said:

Would many of the people come out of it (positively) changed people, or would they all quickly return to their previous lifestyles without an authority figure forcing them to comply?

They may not return to their previous lifestyles, but it is likely that they'll regain much of their original weight following a bootcamp style regime.

A follow up study on contestants from the US version of The Biggest Loser found that contestants did indeed regain weight.

A not altogether unsurprising result given the "just eat less and move more" approach of the series to weight loss and the long term metabolic adaptation is consistent with Keys' Minnesota starvation experiment. Alternative approaches to fat loss and body recomposition could well see better long term results.

Fothergill, E., Guo, J., Howard, L., Kerns, J. C., Knuth, N. D., Brychta, R., Chen, K. Y., Skarulis, M. C., Walter, M., Walter, P. J., & Hall, K. D. (2016). Persistent metabolic adaptation 6 years after "The Biggest Loser" competition. Obesity (Silver Spring, Md.), 24(8), 1612–1619. https://doi.org/10.1002/oby.21538

[mooseracer]

keo said:

How am I not educated? I aren’t fat!

[LordGrover]

keo said:

Maybe I have no understanding but I have seen a druggie/ alcoholic rip a family apart. It was that persons choice to do those things. We aren’t born with a can of beer in our hands.

This is why I see these issues very much black and white.

You clearly have no understanding of how addiction 'works'.

FWIW, nor do I, but I have some experience of it.

Like most/many, I enjoyed a few beers with friends, and the occasional binge. However over time, and not by choice, I found it harder and harder to stop drinking. Its a drug - I had/have no control over it - it (effectively) controlled me.
Whether I have a genetic disposition, lack the will or I'm too stupid is moot - if I start drinking I don't stop.
I can't control it except by abstention.

[PurplePangolin]

Blib said:

keo said:

smn159 said:

keo said:

My opinion

Druggie you put that st in your body
Alcoholic you drink it
Fatty you smash the cream cakes in.

No one makes you do this. It’s all on you. No accountability for your own actions. Being fat is normalised even glamourised. It’s a disgrace.

If you are fat/ druggie/ alcoholic your access to the nhs should be void. If you really want to waste people’s time pay to go private.

My opinion

Uninformed opinions - you couldn't be arsed to get yourself educated.
Your access to discussions should be void
If you want to waste peoples time join Facebook
It's all on you

How am I not educated? I aren’t fat! It’s simple eat everything in moderation and exercise if you want to be fit and healthy (yes I know genuine cases exist and the fat can’t be helped. But how many of the population is fat? They can’t all have medical conditions. Laziness and no self control/ accountability more like)

That’s brilliant about the japs! Especially since they are home to the summo haha

I worked for many years in this country's foremost private specialist hospital as a psychotherapist, specialising in addiction.

Your comments demonstrate clearly that you have no understanding of the issue being discussed whatsoever.

Have a nice day.

Is all obesity as a result of addiction?

[DannyScene]

As an obese man (pretty sure I class as obese if not just fat) with a few obese friends it is absolutely a choice for the vast majority of us.

Put simply we like eating more than we burn off.

[Blib]

PurplePangolin said:

Is all obesity as a result of addiction?

I'm not going to comment at length on this thread.

There is no simple answer to that question.

However, in the establishment where I plied my trade those who presented PRIMARILY with food related issues did not ordinarily join the addiction treatment programme.

Having said that, many addicts have complex relationships with food.

Other establishments and treatment programmes may operate differently. I can only comment on my professional experience.

[Golfgtimk28v]

DannyScene said:

As an obese man (pretty sure I class as obese if not just fat) with a few obese friends it is absolutely a choice for the vast majority of us.

Put simply we like eating more than we burn off.

I'm similar I just had an unrelated health scare and basically changed overnight. I'm still obsessed with food but just work hard at gym now. Takes a lot of time no easy fix, which is the totally opposite of eating food.

[gregs656]

Blib said:

I'm not going to comment at length on this thread.

There is no simple answer to that question.

However, in the establishment where I plied my trade those who presented PRIMARILY with food related issues did not ordinarily join the addiction treatment programme.

Having said that, many addicts have complex relationships with food.

Other establishments and treatment programmes may operate differently. I can only comment on my professional experience.

Always appreciate your contributions on these topics.

[MC Bodge]

jagnet said:

MC Bodge said:

Would many of the people come out of it (positively) changed people, or would they all quickly return to their previous lifestyles without an authority figure forcing them to comply?

They may not return to their previous lifestyles, but it is likely that they'll regain much of their original weight following a bootcamp style regime.

A follow up study on contestants from the US version of The Biggest Loser found that contestants did indeed regain weight.

A not altogether unsurprising result given the "just eat less and move more" approach of the series to weight loss and the long term metabolic adaptation is consistent with Keys' Minnesota starvation experiment. Alternative approaches to fat loss and body recomposition could well see better long term results.

Fothergill, E., Guo, J., Howard, L., Kerns, J. C., Knuth, N. D., Brychta, R., Chen, K. Y., Skarulis, M. C., Walter, M., Walter, P. J., & Hall, K. D. (2016). Persistent metabolic adaptation 6 years after "The Biggest Loser" competition. Obesity (Silver Spring, Md.), 24(8), 1612–1619. https://doi.org/10.1002/oby.21538

Thanks. I was thinking more of a three year sign up, giving up their passport and being shouted at in French


Much of it must be lifestyle related (at least what led to the problem in the first place) though, as well as being biological once the obesity has occurred.

[otolith]

MC Bodge said:

Thanks. I was thinking more of a three year sign up, giving up their passport and being shouted at in French


Much of it must be lifestyle related (at least what led to the problem in the first place) though, as well as being biological once the obesity has occurred.

The ex- Biggest Loser people still had shockingly low BMRs, if I remember rightly. Unfortunately not clear whether that was a cause or an effect of their prior obesity.

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

otolith said:

The ex- Biggest Loser people still had shockingly low BMRs, if I remember rightly. Unfortunately not clear whether that was a cause or an effect of their prior obesity.

Having a "shockingly low BMR" will often come from those trying a calorie restricted diet. The body becomes very efficient and it becomes harder to lose weight. This is the problem with the "calorie counting" method. It isn't that simple.

What is simple is this:

Eat a diet that is fitting with our ancestral history (meat, organs, dairy, seasonal fruit) and some vegetables, no processed food, significantly cut down on grains and carbs and no artificial crap and you'll be fine. Natural food is more satiating and, for a host of other reasons, helps us maintain a healthy weight.

It is that simple in almost all cases.