Obesity, is it really an illness or a lifestyle choice?
Discussion
As a powerfully built company director (aka a fat lad) I was told by a dietician that food is the most difficult addiction to handle because other addictions such as booze/drugs/fags etc can eventually be totally stopped. A person cannot live without food! Consequently, “traditional” diets don’t work, the only way to deal effectively with obesity is to try to change the sufferers relationship with food by understanding how and why they have become obese and support them in changing their lifestyle. I can tell you that it’s bloody difficult.
Mr.Chips said:
As a powerfully built company director (aka a fat lad) I was told by a dietician that food is the most difficult addiction to handle because other addictions such as booze/drugs/fags etc can eventually be totally stopped. A person cannot live without food! Consequently, “traditional” diets don’t work, the only way to deal effectively with obesity is to try to change the sufferers relationship with food by understanding how and why they have become obese and support them in changing their lifestyle. I can tell you that it’s bloody difficult.
Username checks out 
MC Bodge said:
Thanks. I was thinking more of a three year sign up, giving up their passport and being shouted at in French 
In fairness, I'd probably take that over having to listen to Jillian Michaels, plus you get to improve your language skills. Double bonus!MC Bodge said:
Much of it must be lifestyle related (at least what led to the problem in the first place) though, as well as being biological once the obesity has occurred.
Mitochondrial health is likely going to be pretty messed up in the course of reaching the point of obesity, so starting with an already low RMR doesn't surprise me at all. And that's before we consider malnutrition from a diet likely to be deficient in important nutrients.In Keys' study, the participants were all in good health to begin with, and it's worth mentioning that despite being called the "starvation experiment", daily energy intake at ~1600 calories was still within the bounds of what we might consider reasonable when looking to lose weight by calorie restricting. The metabolic adaptations following a caloric deficit still occurred and continued long after, particularly for those participants that controlled consumption in the refeeding phase.
PurplePangolin said:
Is all obesity as a result of addiction?
Absolutely not. Whilst it's true obese people choose to put an unhealthy amount/kind of food in their mouths there are other elements at play, often from childhood. Obesity has been linked to various social factors - crime, depression, work stress etc. Also don't forget it's parents who make poor food/sugary drink choices that allow kids to start on a lifetime of obesity. Because unless an individual is very lucky if they're an obese child they will be an obese adult.Waitforme said:
If he’s been brought up eating that kind of food he’ll think it’s normal.
Yes, my mate was bought up on similar, had a biscuit tin by his bed. Used to call him skeleton as he was so slim, now he is obese drinks a bottle of wine a night and just told me has extreme high blood pressure. So sad really, I'm overweight but don't eat s
t like that and try to cook fresh.I think it's a choice. I mean the remedy is well known and has been for a long time. It's something that can be fixed if you want to so I don't see how it's not a choice. There may be exceptions I'm not aware of, but it can be handled in my opinion. Having said that, there's no doubt that some people naturally have a harder time keeping their weight down.
I think a lot of it is down to plain common sense and that's it. Exercise more, eat less, you'll be fine. 
I'm sure I've shared this before so forgive me but pre-COVID, I started walking for at least 5k steps per day. I was 22 stone 10 when i started and I kept a little online blog going, just noting the number of steps and a few thoughts each day. I watched what I ate but my diet was still pretty poor, I was just helping myself (no pun intended) by exercising more.
Anyway, nine months later and I'd shed five stone. By now, the country is permitted to exercise one hour a day and stupidly, I pretty well stopped the walking completely. I got a job online shopping at a supermarket so three mornings a week, I was doing about 10k steps by 8am but it wasn't really beneficial as (a) inside (b) all short jerky movements of 3-4 steps at a time and (c) the tiredness made me not want to walk on the other days.
So after a year, I lost 5 stone 2 pounds. Now, two years and a bit later, it's all gone back on pretty much. As I write this, I'm 21 stone 11 pounds but I know what I need to do, I just need to dig out the motivation to do it. The screensaver on my phone is an old pic of me aged 31 (I'm 55 now) which is hopefully going to act as an incentive as apart from the hair colour, getting back to that size and shape is definitely achievable.
TL;DR - it's basic stuff really. You can tie yourself up in knots by studying it too intensely but just eat less and exercise more.
I'm sure I've shared this before so forgive me but pre-COVID, I started walking for at least 5k steps per day. I was 22 stone 10 when i started and I kept a little online blog going, just noting the number of steps and a few thoughts each day. I watched what I ate but my diet was still pretty poor, I was just helping myself (no pun intended) by exercising more.
Anyway, nine months later and I'd shed five stone. By now, the country is permitted to exercise one hour a day and stupidly, I pretty well stopped the walking completely. I got a job online shopping at a supermarket so three mornings a week, I was doing about 10k steps by 8am but it wasn't really beneficial as (a) inside (b) all short jerky movements of 3-4 steps at a time and (c) the tiredness made me not want to walk on the other days.
So after a year, I lost 5 stone 2 pounds. Now, two years and a bit later, it's all gone back on pretty much. As I write this, I'm 21 stone 11 pounds but I know what I need to do, I just need to dig out the motivation to do it. The screensaver on my phone is an old pic of me aged 31 (I'm 55 now) which is hopefully going to act as an incentive as apart from the hair colour, getting back to that size and shape is definitely achievable.
TL;DR - it's basic stuff really. You can tie yourself up in knots by studying it too intensely but just eat less and exercise more.
J4CKO said:
I had 2 takeaways this weekend (One Chinese and a burger) wife was away, went to the pub all three nights and feel grim now, no exercise either. Third night cooked a Spag Bol, the thought of more takeaway food made me heave.
How anyone does that day in day out I dont know.
It depends what you're used to. You'd like that Supersize Me thing from a few years ago.How anyone does that day in day out I dont know.
If you've gone to the pub three nights do you think you might be just a bit tired? If you're tonguing for spaghetti like you did, how do you think the chinese go eating chinese for breakfast, lunch and dinner?
GloverMart said:
I think a lot of it is down to plain common sense and that's it. Exercise more, eat less, you'll be fine.
I'm sure I've shared this before so forgive me but pre-COVID, I started walking for at least 5k steps per day. I was 22 stone 10 when i started and I kept a little online blog going, just noting the number of steps and a few thoughts each day. I watched what I ate but my diet was still pretty poor, I was just helping myself (no pun intended) by exercising more.
Anyway, nine months later and I'd shed five stone. By now, the country is permitted to exercise one hour a day and stupidly, I pretty well stopped the walking completely. I got a job online shopping at a supermarket so three mornings a week, I was doing about 10k steps by 8am but it wasn't really beneficial as (a) inside (b) all short jerky movements of 3-4 steps at a time and (c) the tiredness made me not want to walk on the other days.
So after a year, I lost 5 stone 2 pounds. Now, two years and a bit later, it's all gone back on pretty much. As I write this, I'm 21 stone 11 pounds but I know what I need to do, I just need to dig out the motivation to do it. The screensaver on my phone is an old pic of me aged 31 (I'm 55 now) which is hopefully going to act as an incentive as apart from the hair colour, getting back to that size and shape is definitely achievable.
TL;DR - it's basic stuff really. You can tie yourself up in knots by studying it too intensely but just eat less and exercise more.
^^^ This whole conversation in a nutshell. People who demonstrably do not know how to get and stay lean telling everyone how to do it.I'm sure I've shared this before so forgive me but pre-COVID, I started walking for at least 5k steps per day. I was 22 stone 10 when i started and I kept a little online blog going, just noting the number of steps and a few thoughts each day. I watched what I ate but my diet was still pretty poor, I was just helping myself (no pun intended) by exercising more.
Anyway, nine months later and I'd shed five stone. By now, the country is permitted to exercise one hour a day and stupidly, I pretty well stopped the walking completely. I got a job online shopping at a supermarket so three mornings a week, I was doing about 10k steps by 8am but it wasn't really beneficial as (a) inside (b) all short jerky movements of 3-4 steps at a time and (c) the tiredness made me not want to walk on the other days.
So after a year, I lost 5 stone 2 pounds. Now, two years and a bit later, it's all gone back on pretty much. As I write this, I'm 21 stone 11 pounds but I know what I need to do, I just need to dig out the motivation to do it. The screensaver on my phone is an old pic of me aged 31 (I'm 55 now) which is hopefully going to act as an incentive as apart from the hair colour, getting back to that size and shape is definitely achievable.
TL;DR - it's basic stuff really. You can tie yourself up in knots by studying it too intensely but just eat less and exercise more.
grumbledoak said:
GloverMart said:
I think a lot of it is down to plain common sense and that's it. Exercise more, eat less, you'll be fine.
I'm sure I've shared this before so forgive me but pre-COVID, I started walking for at least 5k steps per day. I was 22 stone 10 when i started and I kept a little online blog going, just noting the number of steps and a few thoughts each day. I watched what I ate but my diet was still pretty poor, I was just helping myself (no pun intended) by exercising more.
Anyway, nine months later and I'd shed five stone. By now, the country is permitted to exercise one hour a day and stupidly, I pretty well stopped the walking completely. I got a job online shopping at a supermarket so three mornings a week, I was doing about 10k steps by 8am but it wasn't really beneficial as (a) inside (b) all short jerky movements of 3-4 steps at a time and (c) the tiredness made me not want to walk on the other days.
So after a year, I lost 5 stone 2 pounds. Now, two years and a bit later, it's all gone back on pretty much. As I write this, I'm 21 stone 11 pounds but I know what I need to do, I just need to dig out the motivation to do it. The screensaver on my phone is an old pic of me aged 31 (I'm 55 now) which is hopefully going to act as an incentive as apart from the hair colour, getting back to that size and shape is definitely achievable.
TL;DR - it's basic stuff really. You can tie yourself up in knots by studying it too intensely but just eat less and exercise more.
^^^ This whole conversation in a nutshell. People who demonstrably do not know how to get and stay lean telling everyone how to do it.I'm sure I've shared this before so forgive me but pre-COVID, I started walking for at least 5k steps per day. I was 22 stone 10 when i started and I kept a little online blog going, just noting the number of steps and a few thoughts each day. I watched what I ate but my diet was still pretty poor, I was just helping myself (no pun intended) by exercising more.
Anyway, nine months later and I'd shed five stone. By now, the country is permitted to exercise one hour a day and stupidly, I pretty well stopped the walking completely. I got a job online shopping at a supermarket so three mornings a week, I was doing about 10k steps by 8am but it wasn't really beneficial as (a) inside (b) all short jerky movements of 3-4 steps at a time and (c) the tiredness made me not want to walk on the other days.
So after a year, I lost 5 stone 2 pounds. Now, two years and a bit later, it's all gone back on pretty much. As I write this, I'm 21 stone 11 pounds but I know what I need to do, I just need to dig out the motivation to do it. The screensaver on my phone is an old pic of me aged 31 (I'm 55 now) which is hopefully going to act as an incentive as apart from the hair colour, getting back to that size and shape is definitely achievable.
TL;DR - it's basic stuff really. You can tie yourself up in knots by studying it too intensely but just eat less and exercise more.
Or are you saying I'm right because I know how to do it, I just can't find the motivation to stay that way.
grumbledoak said:
GloverMart said:
I'm not sure whether you're saying I shouldn't be telling others how to stay lean because I can't do it myself.
Or are you saying I'm right because I know how to do it, I just can't find the motivation to stay that way.
Consider the possibility that you are wrong.Or are you saying I'm right because I know how to do it, I just can't find the motivation to stay that way.
Fair enough.I'll always consider that possibility in life because I usually am
. Was trying, clumsily, to make the point that sometimes it really is the simplest way of doing something that is the most effective. I know that FOR ME, walking 2-3 miles per day + watching what I eat will shed the weight. I let the whole COVID thing affect me way too much and lost focus and motivation; if it hadn't come along, then maybe I'd be 15 stone and happy instead of 21 stone + and unhappy. Who knows?GloverMart said:
Fair enough.I'll always consider that possibility in life because I usually am
. Was trying, clumsily, to make the point that sometimes it really is the simplest way of doing something that is the most effective. I know that FOR ME, walking 2-3 miles per day + watching what I eat will shed the weight. I let the whole COVID thing affect me way too much and lost focus and motivation; if it hadn't come along, then maybe I'd be 15 stone and happy instead of 21 stone + and unhappy. Who knows?popeyewhite said:
Very true. Worryingly some parts of society seem to be moving towards normalising obesity. Look at Xtra large female models in magazines for instance.
I think it's a fine line. I agree that we are normalising obesity to the extent that we are is a bad thing - I think many obese people genuinely believe that just because their weight is "normal", it's not a problem for their health; but on the other hand, stigmatising obese people also wont help (although it might help others avoid copying them, I suppose). That's why I think obesity is best treated at least partially as a self-inflicted medical problem, analogous to lung cancer in smokers.
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