Obesity, is it really an illness or a lifestyle choice?
Discussion
trowelhead said:
Leptin resistance may be one of the main reasons people gain weight and have such a hard time losing it.
Thus, obesity is usually not caused by greed, laziness or a lack of willpower.
No, and no.Thus, obesity is usually not caused by greed, laziness or a lack of willpower.
There is no leptin resistance until people become overweight, through mainly lack of willpower...and undoubtedly some greed and sedentary lifestyle. Poorly worded article interpreted poorly. Confirmation bias?
Further not everyone who is overweight exhibits leptin resistance (article states "may"), which is why some people CAN adopt lifestyle change and the discipline to adhere to it. Pretty much all of what people do is a sequence of set responses to certain stimuli, which have become ingrained in them over time as a result of upbringing and life experiences in general. Overeating / eating crap is a learned response.
People have less free will in changing these things than they think. Conscious thought is the brain letting you know what it's already decided anyway...
People have less free will in changing these things than they think. Conscious thought is the brain letting you know what it's already decided anyway...
FNG said:
to me it’s often mental issues not an illness as such.
Poor relationship with food.
Comfort eating.
Bad habits becoming ingrained.
Yes, can be laziness or lack of education but I think a lot of it comes down to low self esteem, depression, general unhappiness - reach for the chocolate / ready meals etc. Then it’s the vicious circle of I feel sad and have low self esteem because of my weight, and the thing that gives me a short term boost is a bar of dairy milk.
However there are other reasons.
Middle class lifestyle - I gained 6kg or so due to getting comfortable once married, two bottles of wine per night over a nice meal, the wife likes chocolate so it’s always in the house (I haven’t got great willpower so when single I used to just not buy it - then when it’s constantly available it’s hard to not eat it) and bad habits like a beer when getting in from work becoming something that happens every night, the wife offers a bar of chocolate every evening, it becomes very habitual very quickly and I need to be really careful not to start that sort of thing as it becomes embedded quickly and proves really hard to break out of.
Topic Closed.Poor relationship with food.
Comfort eating.
Bad habits becoming ingrained.
Yes, can be laziness or lack of education but I think a lot of it comes down to low self esteem, depression, general unhappiness - reach for the chocolate / ready meals etc. Then it’s the vicious circle of I feel sad and have low self esteem because of my weight, and the thing that gives me a short term boost is a bar of dairy milk.
However there are other reasons.
Middle class lifestyle - I gained 6kg or so due to getting comfortable once married, two bottles of wine per night over a nice meal, the wife likes chocolate so it’s always in the house (I haven’t got great willpower so when single I used to just not buy it - then when it’s constantly available it’s hard to not eat it) and bad habits like a beer when getting in from work becoming something that happens every night, the wife offers a bar of chocolate every evening, it becomes very habitual very quickly and I need to be really careful not to start that sort of thing as it becomes embedded quickly and proves really hard to break out of.
Even with a huge 6' 4" frame it boggles the mind how someone can gain or lose 5 stone in under 12 months.
I'm 6', and a recklessly bad eater and boozer but I reign in my excesses if I nudge into 15 stone, how much crap have you
shovel in to get yourself over 20 stone ?
Sorry, it sounds judgemental, but do 23 stone folk see a 15 stone person in the mirror ?
I'm 6', and a recklessly bad eater and boozer but I reign in my excesses if I nudge into 15 stone, how much crap have you
shovel in to get yourself over 20 stone ?
Sorry, it sounds judgemental, but do 23 stone folk see a 15 stone person in the mirror ?
coppernorks said:
Even with a huge 6' 4" frame it boggles the mind how someone can gain or lose 5 stone in under 12 months.
I'm 6', and a recklessly bad eater and boozer but I reign in my excesses if I nudge into 15 stone, how much crap have you
shovel in to get yourself over 20 stone ?
Sorry, it sounds judgemental, but do 23 stone folk see a 15 stone person in the mirror ?
It's weird, the mirror lies and to be honest you get blind to it. Haven't been as high as 20 stone but having gone from 17-> 11 stone in my adult life I find it amazing how much weight you can carry and not be aware of it at 6ft tall. I'm 6', and a recklessly bad eater and boozer but I reign in my excesses if I nudge into 15 stone, how much crap have you
shovel in to get yourself over 20 stone ?
Sorry, it sounds judgemental, but do 23 stone folk see a 15 stone person in the mirror ?
smn159 said:
Pretty much all of what people do is a sequence of set responses to certain stimuli, which have become ingrained in them over time as a result of upbringing and life experiences in general. Overeating / eating crap is a learned response.
People have less free will in changing these things than they think. Conscious thought is the brain letting you know what it's already decided anyway...
Interesting one, I certainly suspect that some of the "it's lack of discipline, you're responsible for what you eat, it's not difficult, don't mention leptin it gives fatties an excuse, my favourite main meal is yummy whole grains and skimmed yoghurt" commentary is from people who have had the great good fortune to be brought up with a very different exposure to, and relationship with, food than many of the rest of us.People have less free will in changing these things than they think. Conscious thought is the brain letting you know what it's already decided anyway...
And it's easy to say how easy it is when you haven't the slightest clue how difficult it can be, if by the grace of bob you'd had a different start in life that instigated and cemented an unhealthy relationship with food.
ukbabz said:
coppernorks said:
Even with a huge 6' 4" frame it boggles the mind how someone can gain or lose 5 stone in under 12 months.
I'm 6', and a recklessly bad eater and boozer but I reign in my excesses if I nudge into 15 stone, how much crap have you
shovel in to get yourself over 20 stone ?
Sorry, it sounds judgemental, but do 23 stone folk see a 15 stone person in the mirror ?
It's weird, the mirror lies and to be honest you get blind to it. Haven't been as high as 20 stone but having gone from 17-> 11 stone in my adult life I find it amazing how much weight you can carry and not be aware of it at 6ft tall. I'm 6', and a recklessly bad eater and boozer but I reign in my excesses if I nudge into 15 stone, how much crap have you
shovel in to get yourself over 20 stone ?
Sorry, it sounds judgemental, but do 23 stone folk see a 15 stone person in the mirror ?
For me, if I exercise it tends to kindle a strong desire not to waste that exercise by having a beer or a kit kat. I start to look for healthy snacks. I eat waaay better.
Soon as the exercise stops, I let myself go. Done it quite a few times. Can't help it. Don't know why I can't decouple one from the other.
FNG said:
Interesting one, I certainly suspect that some of the "it's lack of discipline, you're responsible for what you eat, it's not difficult, don't mention leptin it gives fatties an excuse, my favourite main meal is yummy whole grains and skimmed yoghurt" commentary is from people who have had the great good fortune to be brought up with a very different exposure to, and relationship with, food than many of the rest of us.
And it's easy to say how easy it is when you haven't the slightest clue how difficult it can be, if by the grace of bob you'd had a different start in life that instigated and cemented an unhealthy relationship with food.
Yes, you're a victim. Totally blameless. Your upbringing is to blame and everyone else is really really lucky to have a different relationship with food. None of them have to ever think about it or rein themselves in, exercise or diet etc. etc.And it's easy to say how easy it is when you haven't the slightest clue how difficult it can be, if by the grace of bob you'd had a different start in life that instigated and cemented an unhealthy relationship with food.
Not true is it?
popeyewhite said:
Yes, you're a victim. Totally blameless. Your upbringing is to blame and everyone else is really really lucky to have a different relationship with food. None of them have to ever think about it or rein themselves in, exercise or diet etc. etc.
Not true is it?
Oh behave. Not true is it?
Environmental factors are a contributor. Doesn’t fit your narrative I know but that doesn’t make it less true.
FNG said:
Oh behave.
Excuse me? FNG said:
Environmental factors are a contributor. Doesn’t fit your narrative I know but that doesn’t make it less true.
You write a post blaming factors other than yourself for being overweight and taking no personal responsibility at all, I point this out and you say it's a story? 
A lot of us know Tim Spector from his work on Covid-19 (
and in particular, the Covid ZOE app.
Have a look at this press release for his book on gut health and how various factors affect our propensity to becoming obese. It's interesting...
"THE DIET MYTH is a ground-breaking book by Tim Spector, Professor of Genetic Epidemiology at King’s College, London, drawing on his pioneering research into microbes, genetics and diet."
https://www.tim-spector.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2...
and in particular, the Covid ZOE app.
Have a look at this press release for his book on gut health and how various factors affect our propensity to becoming obese. It's interesting...
"THE DIET MYTH is a ground-breaking book by Tim Spector, Professor of Genetic Epidemiology at King’s College, London, drawing on his pioneering research into microbes, genetics and diet."
https://www.tim-spector.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2...
PorkInsider said:
A lot of us know Tim Spector from his work on Covid-19 (
and in particular, the Covid ZOE app.
Have a look at this press release for his book on gut health and how various factors affect our propensity to becoming obese. It's interesting...
"THE DIET MYTH is a ground-breaking book by Tim Spector, Professor of Genetic Epidemiology at King’s College, London, drawing on his pioneering research into microbes, genetics and diet."
https://www.tim-spector.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2...
Yep, it's heavily processed foods, take aways and fizzy drinks that a fand in particular, the Covid ZOE app.
Have a look at this press release for his book on gut health and how various factors affect our propensity to becoming obese. It's interesting...
"THE DIET MYTH is a ground-breaking book by Tim Spector, Professor of Genetic Epidemiology at King’s College, London, drawing on his pioneering research into microbes, genetics and diet."
https://www.tim-spector.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2...
king us all up. coppernorks said:
Even with a huge 6' 4" frame it boggles the mind how someone can gain or lose 5 stone in under 12 months.
I'm 6', and a recklessly bad eater and boozer but I reign in my excesses if I nudge into 15 stone, how much crap have you
shovel in to get yourself over 20 stone ?
Sorry, it sounds judgemental, but do 23 stone folk see a 15 stone person in the mirror ?
Presuming this was addressed to me unless someone else has admitted they have the same issue... I'm 6', and a recklessly bad eater and boozer but I reign in my excesses if I nudge into 15 stone, how much crap have you
shovel in to get yourself over 20 stone ?
Sorry, it sounds judgemental, but do 23 stone folk see a 15 stone person in the mirror ?
Regarding losing the weight, I found it okay once I started well. I was walking more than 5,000 steps a day, and wrote a blog too which helped me to commit to it. In the end, lockdown tripped me up but I ended up walking more than 3.5 million steps in that year. Got a fair amount of weight (5 stone off) so completed Couch 25k near the end. If I ever get sorted out mentally again, that is how I will do it, I live close by to a railway path that is quite a pretty walk so this will be my encouragement. Last summer, I got a job picking online orders at Sainsbury's which meant I'd walked nearly 7,000 steps before 7am but it f
ked my knees, I stopped the walking, it played havoc with my sleep pattern and that was that. I'd say if you met me now, you would doubt I was 23 stone. You'd probably call it at about 18-19 stone tops, the height helps of course.
Putting it on again? Answer is, an awful lot of crap. Eye-watering amounts of crap in fact, more so than you can even imagine because I don't drink. Well, I say I don't drink, I might have a pint of cider at football every other week but clearly not enough to influence my weight at all. It's just food really, I have a sweet tooth and indulge it.
- For instance, quite a few times lately, I've finished a packet of McVities Chocolate Digestives during the day. A quick Google says that's 26 biscuits @ 84 calories each = 2,184 calories. That's almost my daily allowance gone on biscuits alone.
- I drink 3 or 4 mugs of milky coffee each morning, semi skimmed milk in a microwave so that doesn't help.
- Quite often on my way home from work, I'll pick up a 4 pinter of milk & buy a Tesco 3 bars of chocolate (Twix, Mars, Bounty, Snickers etc) for £1.20 and eat them before I get home 20 minutes later.
- Takeaways are less regular, I guess. Domino's, I'd have a small tuna & pineapple pizza, portion of wedges + four cookies. That's probably another 1,500 calories there though that would only be once a month. Local chippie gets a hammering once a month, steak and kidney pie and chips.
And no need to apologise for being judgmental, I post on here to get help and advice and as such, open myself up to criticism or opinions. Your comment has spurred me into posting & I'm glad you did, maybe it will help me get sorted.
ETA - to answer the hereditary point. My mum was overweight, not massively, but she used to use appetite suppressant chocolates called Ayds back in the day. Dad, I have no idea.
Have three boys and a girl. All three boys are the same height as me and have no weight issues at all. The girl (obviously shorter) struggles a bit with her weight, and has had 2 children, but nothing that suggests I've passed it down to her.
Edited by GloverMart on Monday 21st June 19:41
Krupp88 said:
It’s easy (and quick) to consume 3 digestive biscuits, most people would underestimate the number of calories involved. Assuming the consumer of said biscuits then went for a moderately brisk run for 30 minutes they may work off the calories, however I expect most people would over estimate what has been worked off.
So even someone who is ‘active’ in many peoples eyes by going to the gym 5 days a week for 30mins a time will only work off the takeaway curry they had at the weekend.
Until people fully understand the true calorific load of what they eat (and look beyond the deceptive labelling which often quotes the calories of a certain weight or portion of the product) and the level of exercise required to burn it off they will continue in the same loop of self deception.
It really is amazing that our bodies are so efficient in burning energy.
Hang on a minute! Are you trying to tell me that because I took the bins out, I cannot have a mahoosive fried breakfast as my reward?So even someone who is ‘active’ in many peoples eyes by going to the gym 5 days a week for 30mins a time will only work off the takeaway curry they had at the weekend.
Until people fully understand the true calorific load of what they eat (and look beyond the deceptive labelling which often quotes the calories of a certain weight or portion of the product) and the level of exercise required to burn it off they will continue in the same loop of self deception.
It really is amazing that our bodies are so efficient in burning energy.
FNG said:
Oh behave.
Environmental factors are a contributor. Doesn’t fit your narrative I know but that doesn’t make it less true.
Your posts are shockingly immature and deluded. Post after post of you burying your head in the sand about the reasons behind your physical condition. Environmental factors are a contributor. Doesn’t fit your narrative I know but that doesn’t make it less true.
Most people are overweight, especially those over 30, because staying in shape is bloody hard. It requires motivation, sacrifice and determination. Constantly. All of the time. Whilst everyone else aroud you is being a lazy slob and churning out weird and wonderful excuses about why it's not the same for them. So you have to block them out and keep going. But you don't care about that. You've decided there are deep psychological reasons as to why people are overweight, and drilling down into those reasons like you're bloody Freud is far more interesting than just following the well-known and immutable formula for weight loss - consume less than you burn. All these silly diets - vegan, IF, keto, paleo, weight watchers points system, whatever - they're all abstractions of the same biological fact: consume less than you burn, and your weight goes down.
When you account for calories, these diets all perform broadly the same. Ergo, in the vast majority of circumstances, you are what you eat. You can either acknowledge that fact and get to work, or you can keep aligning yourself with flowery posts that absolve you of any responsibility - the end result is still the same.
popeyewhite said:
Further not everyone who is overweight exhibits leptin resistance (article states "may"), which is why some people CAN adopt lifestyle change and the discipline to adhere to it.
MOST obese people are sensitive to leptin source:https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM19960201...
"Serum leptin concentrations are correlated with the percentage of body fat, suggesting that most obese persons are insensitive to endogenous leptin production."
TLDR - We have a weight "set-point" that is affected by the interplay of endocrinology (insulin, ghrelin, cortisol, leptin) and inflammation that is heavily mediated by an imbalance in omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids. (https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/9-fixes-for-weight-hormones#TOC_TITLE_HDR_5)
Basically, a westernised diet and stress can wreck your natural hunger hormone signals and make it extremely difficult to stay lean - diets can cause metabolism to reduce in the long term.
- it is possible to re-set your weight set-point through eating the right kinds of fats, getting enough protein, avoiding processed foods and simple sugars, exercise, and getting enough sleep.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-We-Eat-Too-Much/dp/02...
popeyewhite said:
FNG said:
Oh behave.
Excuse me? FNG said:
Environmental factors are a contributor. Doesn’t fit your narrative I know but that doesn’t make it less true.
You write a post blaming factors other than yourself for being overweight and taking no personal responsibility at all, I point this out and you say it's a story? I said it was a factor. I believe that’s unarguable. If you prefer to think otherwise then that’s up to you. But if you can’t accept there are other factors than just not taking responsibility for yourself then this conversation isn’t worth having.
Up to you.
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