Obesity, is it really an illness or a lifestyle choice?

[Ayahuasca]

pb8g09 said:

Ayahuasca said:

It’s funny, where I live - Switzerland - I never see overweight people. I am sure there are some, but I haven’t seen any.

Food is too expensive to eat too much!

That is true! Hardly any fast food places either. And people seem to cycle everywhere. Can’t do a massive food shop if all you have is the basket of your pushbike to fill up.

[MC Bodge]

Ayahuasca said:

pb8g09 said:

Ayahuasca said:

It’s funny, where I live - Switzerland - I never see overweight people. I am sure there are some, but I haven’t seen any.

Food is too expensive to eat too much!

That is true! Hardly any fast food places either. And people seem to cycle everywhere.

These third world, developing countries, eh?

For as long as we are British, we will be sitting, wheezing, in cars, queuing at the "drive-thru". God save the queen!

[popeyewhite]

MC Bodge said:

Ayahuasca said:

pb8g09 said:

Ayahuasca said:

It’s funny, where I live - Switzerland - I never see overweight people. I am sure there are some, but I haven’t seen any.

Food is too expensive to eat too much!

That is true! Hardly any fast food places either. And people seem to cycle everywhere.

These third world, developing countries, eh?

For as long as we are British, we will be sitting, wheezing, in cars, queuing at the "drive-thru". God save the queen!

Judging by Maccy D's the last time I drove past people are now too lazy to even get in the car and queue at the drive-thru, preferring uber or deliveroo instead. We're going to hell in a handcart... .

[MC Bodge]

popeyewhite said:

Judging by Maccy D's the last time I drove past people are now too lazy to even get in the car and queue at the drive-thru, preferring uber or deliveroo instead. We're going to hell in a handcart... .

It does seem that way. A very large handcart.

[WestyCarl]

popeyewhite said:

Judging by Maccy D's the last time I drove past people are now too lazy to even get in the car and queue at the drive-thru, preferring uber or deliveroo instead. We're going to hell in a handcart... .

This is it exactly. Amanzon prime, robot food deliveries, deliveroo, uber; we're getting lazier as a society whilst we're being tempting all day with cheap, great tasting, addictive, calorie rich food.

People seeing the anitdote to this as 30mins down the gym on a treadmill are deluding themselves.

A quick check on google shows if you have a Costa Honeycomb Latte, that's 500Kcal (or 25% daily requirement )

Edited by WestyCarl on Friday 24th June 10:41

[MontyPythonX]

WestyCarl said:

This is it exactly. Amanzon prime, robot food deliveries, deliveroo, uber; we're getting lazier as a society whilst we're being tempting all day with cheap, great tasting, addictive, calorie rich food.

People seeing the anitdote to this as 30mins down the gym on a treadmill are deluding themselves.

A quick check on google shows if you have a Costa Honeycomb Latte, that's 500Kcal (or 25% daily requirement )

I assume you're not talking about MaccyD's anymore...

[MontyPythonX]

popeyewhite said:

Judging by Maccy D's the last time I drove past people are now too lazy to even get in the car and queue at the drive-thru, preferring uber or deliveroo instead. We're going to hell in a handcart... .

I dont understand the ones who order on the app then just sit in the car park, have it brought out to you (too lazy to go and get it) and then sit and eat it in their car.

[Pebbles167]

MC Bodge said:

Pebbles167 said:

I eat a lot of processed food, and high carb stuff. I'd like to change that, but figured that it's better to get used to maintaining a steady weight first.

Eh? Why not just change the diet away from processed food and high carb first?

Because I wouldn't stick to it. Having to eat healthier would mean I'd probably give up on the diet.

I'm not awful, cereal breakfast, fruit lunch, balanced dinner. But I eat a lot of bread and meat. Can't imagine it's the best for you.

I've started to pile more veg on with dinner, I'm going in the right direction.

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Blib said:

WY86 said:

Haven’t read the whole thread so might of already been mentioned… but they do say sugar is the most addictive substance in the world. So maybe a part of it may be an illness if they are addicted to eating sugary stuff.

I worked in addiction treatment. For many people sugar is very difficult to regulate.

Go to any Fellowship - AA/NA/CA or even some symposiums on addiction, for that matter, you will find a table piled high with cakes and biscuits. That table will have a queue of people waiting to get their hit.

Yup, all my CPD events are full of this crap. It's why I always take my own lunch and fruit with me

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Pebbles167 said:

MC Bodge said:

Pebbles167 said:

I eat a lot of processed food, and high carb stuff. I'd like to change that, but figured that it's better to get used to maintaining a steady weight first.

Eh? Why not just change the diet away from processed food and high carb first?

Because I wouldn't stick to it. Having to eat healthier would mean I'd probably give up on the diet.

I'm not awful, cereal breakfast, fruit lunch, balanced dinner. But I eat a lot of bread and meat. Can't imagine it's the best for you.

I've started to pile more veg on with dinner, I'm going in the right direction.

With an attitude like that you've lost before you've even started. "because I'd probably give up".

Cereals are not healthy. Fruit (alone) for lunch causes insulin spikes which is the worst thing. You need some healthy fats in there plus some protein.

You say "too much meat" like it's a bad thing. Red meat (grass fed beef) is arguably the most nutritious food on the planet providing you eat "nose to tail" (so not just minced beef, but steak, liver, kidneys etc).

Many people thrive on nothing but beef (even no fruit and veg). I eat some red meat most days and as stated a while ago, my weight is fine. My cholesterol ratios are spot on, my triglycerides are VERY low (0.5!),my fasting glucose is low, my HbA1c is 31. I do eat about 10 portions of fruit and veg a day though, but if I were to stop either beef or fruit, it'd not be the beef if I wanted to be healthy. But ought to be organic grass fed.

[K50 DEL]

I'm a complete disaster in this area, struggled with my weight my whole life, really only had it under control a decade or so ago for the last couple of years living in Angola as there was no ability to eat junk.

My problems are mainly that I have an incredibly sweet tooth, no willpower and intensely dislike veg and fruit!

I'm not a fast food or takeaway person, I eat homecooked food every night (usually batch cook and freeze every other weekend)
Breakfast is weetabix M-F and Coco Pops S+S, lunch 2 wholemeal brown rolls with ham every day

But I can't have biscuits, cakes or chocolate in the house as I'll demolish everything in double quick time.

I probably weigh 20kg over what I got down to in Angola and needed to drop another 5kg then so I've got a long way back and as I'm now 45 I don't think it'll be quite as easy this time round...

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

K50 DEL said:

I'm a complete disaster in this area, struggled with my weight my whole life, really only had it under control a decade or so ago for the last couple of years living in Angola as there was no ability to eat junk.

My problems are mainly that I have an incredibly sweet tooth, no willpower and intensely dislike veg and fruit!

I'm not a fast food or takeaway person, I eat homecooked food every night (usually batch cook and freeze every other weekend)
Breakfast is weetabix M-F and Coco Pops S+S, lunch 2 wholemeal brown rolls with ham every day

But I can't have biscuits, cakes or chocolate in the house as I'll demolish everything in double quick time.

I probably weigh 20kg over what I got down to in Angola and needed to drop another 5kg then so I've got a long way back and as I'm now 45 I don't think it'll be quite as easy this time round...

So you're having a breakfast full of sugar if you're having the coco pops, weetabix is also a processed grain with no nutritional benefit. You're having bread for lunch, which is also a junk food with no nutritional benefit and a processed grain. Both of those are full of carbs, no healthy fats and poor quality protein. That's 2 easy things to fix straight away

[markymarkthree]

K50 DEL said:

I'm a complete disaster in this area, struggled with my weight my whole life, really only had it under control a decade or so ago for the last couple of years living in Angola as there was no ability to eat junk.

My problems are mainly that I have an incredibly sweet tooth, no willpower and intensely dislike veg and fruit!

I'm not a fast food or takeaway person, I eat homecooked food every night (usually batch cook and freeze every other weekend)
Breakfast is weetabix M-F and Coco Pops S+S, lunch 2 wholemeal brown rolls with ham every day

But I can't have biscuits, cakes or chocolate in the house as I'll demolish everything in double quick time.

I probably weigh 20kg over what I got down to in Angola and needed to drop another 5kg then so I've got a long way back and as I'm now 45 I don't think it'll be quite as easy this time round...

I would change your breakfast thing.
I have a large bowl of porridge, with a spoonful of bran, full fat milk and frozen blueberries and raspberries about 0800. Takes about 3mins in the m/wave. This sees me through to 1300ish every day.

[kambites]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

You're having bread for lunch, which is also a junk food with no nutritional benefit

Brown bread does not have "no nutritional benefit". It's certainly no super-food, but it does contain a fair bit of fibre which you need to get from somewhere.

Same with breakfast cereal, certainly things like coco pops are obviously awful, but there are whole-grain cereals which are perfectly fine as long as they're used as part of a balanced intake throughout the day.


In my (not-personal, I have a BMI of 20) experience that sort of absolutism is one of the biggest problems for some people trying to understand what they need to do to lose weight. There are obviously some things which are just bad for you, but there are far more things which are bad if consumed excessively but cause no problems if consumed in moderation. IMO one of the very worst things you can say to someone trying to lose weight is "carbs are bad".

Edited by kambites on Friday 24th June 13:49

[MC Bodge]

K50 DEL said:

I probably weigh 20kg over what I got down to in Angola and needed to drop another 5kg then so I've got a long way back and as I'm now 45 I don't think it'll be quite as easy this time round...

I don't think that being 45 will make it harder

[grumbledoak]

kambites said:

Brown bread does not have "no nutritional benefit". It's certainly no super-food, but it does contain a fair bit of fibre which you need to get from somewhere.

That's not true. Fibre has no nutritional value, and your intestines don't need it to function. It is just irritating your colon and feeding the bacteria there, giving you bigger poos. Nothing untoward would happen if you never ate another gram of it.

Some of it is a waste product from making white flour. Feeding waste products to animals is very profitable.

[Ayahuasca]

K50 DEL said:

I probably weigh 20kg over what I got down to in Angola and needed to drop another 5kg then so I've got a long way back and as I'm now 45 I don't think it'll be quite as easy this time round...

Green tea is your friend. I can have no food at all for 24 or 36 hours very easily, with plenty of energy and without feeling hungry by having a few cups of strong green unsweetened tea.

[bucksmanuk]

It might not work for all of you, but I took the Harcombe diet seriously for 3 months and lost 41 pounds. (down to 14.5 stone) Basically, you cut out lots of foods that are heavily processed.

What you can eat
Lean meats, fruit and infinite veg, fish, brown rice, eggs, salad stuff, mineral water (by the gallon)

What you can’t eat/drink
Bread, pasta, normal rice, any cereals, biscuits, potatoes, pies (this was a concern…) tea, coffee, alcohol, cheese, supermarket fruit juice.

I have never eaten so much food in my life - I need to get back on it.

[otolith]

grumbledoak said:

kambites said:

Brown bread does not have "no nutritional benefit". It's certainly no super-food, but it does contain a fair bit of fibre which you need to get from somewhere.

That's not true. Fibre has no nutritional value, and your intestines don't need it to function. It is just irritating your colon and feeding the bacteria there, giving you bigger poos. Nothing untoward would happen if you never ate another gram it.

That would be an ecumenical matter.

I'm sure you know perfectly well that your position contradicts mainstream medical opinion and that those holding that opinion would argue that it is evidence based.

e.g.

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/caus...
https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news-from-the-bh...

Not saying that you are wrong, rather that you must know that many disagree with you on what they would consider good grounds.

[jagnet]

kambites said:

...but it does contain a fair bit of fibre which you need to get from somewhere.

There's really no need for fibre in the human diet.

When it comes to bowel movement, fibre can be contraindicative, creating unnecessarily bulky stools. A zero fibre diet clears up chronic constipation symptoms:



Ho, K. S., Tan, C. Y., Mohd Daud, M. A., & Seow-Choen, F. (2012). Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms. World journal of gastroenterology, 18(33), 4593–4596. https://doi.org/10.3748/wjg.v18.i33.4593

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

Many people thrive on nothing but beef (even no fruit and veg).

I do eat some pork and chicken, but beef is the mainstay of my diet. No fruit or veg to speak of. Lots of butter and milk. No grains, no veg oils, no nuts.

I have never felt better in my life.