Africa appeals
Discussion
Chicken_Satay said:
The UK, and in particular, the NHS, is not a tidy room at all. In fact, the NHS is a complete and utter shambles from what I've experienced. Until they get hospitals, schools, police, and other vital services up to scratch then any organisation outside of the UK looking for my money will be politely given the finger.
Are you donating after payroll to hospitals, schools, police and the NHS? Puggit said:
Ice_blue_tvr said:
There is a certain irony to African countries needing so much aid when beneath them are some of the richest precious metal mines, diamonds and oil.
It's OK, China is now raping Africa of all these resources in exchange for small amounts of infrastructure being built (by Chinese workers shipped in, not locals). We once trialled a piece of market data software which labeled owner information for all the mines/oil rigs etc around the world.. Most of them in Africa were owned by Chinese, Russians and Americans.. Basically none by African companies.
"Rape" felt the most apt term.
Chicken_Satay said:
StevieBee said:
Charity begins at home. It's an understandable point of view. However, consider this analogy.
Take the world as the house in which we all live. Countries are the rooms. Some rooms are kept nice and tidy and clean, others; less so. The nice tidy rooms can't ignore the untidy ones. People in those rooms may try to live in another room. They may start arguing with another untidy room. Because they're not clean, disease may emerge from them and spread through the whole house. And because of their presence, it costs everyone more money than it should to maintain the whole house. So it makes sense to send a few people from those nice tidy and clean rooms to help those in other rooms sort their s
t out because then, everyone benefits.
So when thinking in terms of Charity beginning at home, it's sometimes worth thinking about what you actually mean by home - the house or the room?
The UK, and in particular, the NHS, is not a tidy room at all. In fact, the NHS is a complete and utter shambles from what I've experienced. Until they get hospitals, schools, police, and other vital services up to scratch then any organisation outside of the UK looking for my money will be politely given the finger.Take the world as the house in which we all live. Countries are the rooms. Some rooms are kept nice and tidy and clean, others; less so. The nice tidy rooms can't ignore the untidy ones. People in those rooms may try to live in another room. They may start arguing with another untidy room. Because they're not clean, disease may emerge from them and spread through the whole house. And because of their presence, it costs everyone more money than it should to maintain the whole house. So it makes sense to send a few people from those nice tidy and clean rooms to help those in other rooms sort their s
t out because then, everyone benefits.So when thinking in terms of Charity beginning at home, it's sometimes worth thinking about what you actually mean by home - the house or the room?
We don't do dodgey elections. Our public services are not plagued by corruption. If we're ill, we get looked after. We get the best education and the best opportunity. Our police won't beat us to death if we step out of line.......
From our perspective, we may rightly say that the NHS is a mess, Police too and so on. But from the perspective of an impoverished African city, what we have now is pipe-dream aspiration for them.
Plus, the two are connected. If you have an impoverished state without good healthcare, law and order, etc... the people there may (and do) look to the west and think that "we'll never get what they have so we'll go there". So we then have to spend money dealing with them when they head over on a tea-tray and spend even more money when they get here.
Equally, desperate nations can do desperate things - like start wars, wars that we may get involved in to protect our interests in the region. Wars cost an awful lot of money.
And even if we ignore these things and look at the problem with our public services, it is seldom about money and more about management and governance.
You not giving a fiver a month to Africa will make not the slightest iota of difference here but will make a huge difference in Africa..... which in turn can contribute to making a difference here too.
craigjm said:
Are you donating after payroll to hospitals, schools, police and the NHS?
It depends on what events are going on at any given time but really the government should be sorting that out anyway.However, I'd much rather donate money to a local school or hospital fundraiser etc than overseas where the money will, and has been, getting pissed up the wall for decades, if not centuries.
Chicken_Satay said:
It depends on what events are going on at any given time but really the government should be sorting that out anyway.
However, I'd much rather donate money to a local school or hospital fundraiser etc than overseas where the money will, and has been, getting pissed up the wall for decades, if not centuries.
You are quite entitled to give money to whoever you want but thankfully many people in the UK see giving (and do donate) a few quid towards helping people much less fortunate than themselves in Africa as a good thing. However, I'd much rather donate money to a local school or hospital fundraiser etc than overseas where the money will, and has been, getting pissed up the wall for decades, if not centuries.
Chicken_Satay said:
It depends on what events are going on at any given time but really the government should be sorting that out anyway.
However, I'd much rather donate money to a local school or hospital fundraiser etc than overseas where the money will, and has been, getting pissed up the wall for decades, if not centuries.
I’m sure the NHS will be massively benefited from you choosing not to contribute to charities using your disposable income that you wouldn’t give to the NHS anyway. However, I'd much rather donate money to a local school or hospital fundraiser etc than overseas where the money will, and has been, getting pissed up the wall for decades, if not centuries.
craigjm said:
The problem with these appeals is that they "fix" a symptom of the issue rather than the root cause. Fixing the root cause is much more difficult and takes much more money and resources upfront. Even in the most developed of African countries like South Africa there are serious issues because the government is not run properly. Its not all about corruption, but that is a large element. It is also about incompetence and lack of investment in infrastructure and other basic things. Add into the a history of conflict in lots of African countries and it makes aid very difficult.
Yes, and the culture that this has created within the country. It's a huge issue and a complex one.Unknown_User said:
You are quite entitled to give money to whoever you want but thankfully many people in the UK see giving (and do donate) a few quid towards helping people much less fortunate than themselves in Africa as a good thing.
And some in Africa rely on aid from foreign countries, but not in the way you might imagine.https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna44147002
NMNeil said:
Unknown_User said:
You are quite entitled to give money to whoever you want but thankfully many people in the UK see giving (and do donate) a few quid towards helping people much less fortunate than themselves in Africa as a good thing.
And some in Africa rely on aid from foreign countries, but not in the way you might imagine.https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna44147002
Have you seen how Bozza & his tory chums handed out COVID contracts out to their mates?
It would always stick in my craw when someone like Tesco do a big charity drive where they collect donations from customers then give them to charity while claiming the credit for the donation.
Lots of big companies do it.
Then I look at my bottom line and Tescos and wonder who's the mug.
Just give 5% of your profits to charity and stop begging off your customers.
Lots of big companies do it.
Then I look at my bottom line and Tescos and wonder who's the mug.
Just give 5% of your profits to charity and stop begging off your customers.
ChocolateFrog said:
It would always stick in my craw when someone like Tesco do a big charity drive where they collect donations from customers then give them to charity while claiming the credit for the donation.
Lots of big companies do it.
Then I look at my bottom line and Tescos and wonder who's the mug.
Just give 5% of your profits to charity and stop begging off your customers.
I'll see your Tescos and raise you the 47 companies who's project I'm involved with currently who've committed £400m annually to dealing with plastic waste in under developed countries. That's a meaningful amount of money, of that's there's no doubt....until you realise that the annual combined revenue of those companies is $2.7 trillion (not a typo - that's Trillion)..... and that they represent the largest contributors of plastic waste on earth.Lots of big companies do it.
Then I look at my bottom line and Tescos and wonder who's the mug.
Just give 5% of your profits to charity and stop begging off your customers.
StevieBee said:
I'll see your Tescos and raise you the 47 companies who's project I'm involved with currently who've committed £400m annually to dealing with plastic waste in under developed countries. That's a meaningful amount of money, of that's there's no doubt....until you realise that the annual combined revenue of those companies is $2.7 trillion (not a typo - that's Trillion)..... and that they represent the largest contributors of plastic waste on earth.
Absolutely no doubt that they'll be ramming their virtuous message down the throats of their customers too.EarlOfHazard said:
Thebaggers said:
Whenever a charity asks for donation, always ask what % the company retain, and then make a choice. It is surprising.
Worst example I found was a charity competition at a golf hole, nearest the pin / hole in one challenge. £20 to enter with the winner getting a holiday. (It was running for 3 months).This was being run by two young girls who looked like they came straight off an f1 grid enticing all the old boys to sign up. They were successful. Signage was on trailers being pulled around by a new land rover. After their costs were met, salaries, vehicles, lunch etc, zip up pvc clothing, surplus was guaranteed go through to their good cause after an admin fee at a significant %, it was something overseas but cannot remember what.
Some see this as a business opportunity, charity be damned. They should have just provided mobile lap dancing at £20 a go, would have been more honest and a better business model.
Happy to be corrected, but if registered as a charity, then there won't be any corporation tax to pay...20% up already...Worst example I found was a charity competition at a golf hole, nearest the pin / hole in one challenge. £20 to enter with the winner getting a holiday. (It was running for 3 months).This was being run by two young girls who looked like they came straight off an f1 grid enticing all the old boys to sign up. They were successful. Signage was on trailers being pulled around by a new land rover. After their costs were met, salaries, vehicles, lunch etc, zip up pvc clothing, surplus was guaranteed go through to their good cause after an admin fee at a significant %, it was something overseas but cannot remember what.
Some see this as a business opportunity, charity be damned. They should have just provided mobile lap dancing at £20 a go, would have been more honest and a better business model.
My fiancée is Kenyan and I visit her family village regularly. It’s the neighbouring village to where Barack Obama’s dad was born. Nyangoma Kogelo.
It’s not really a village just a hamlet to be fair.
A few years ago Mr Obama visited with his cavalcade, he shook hands with the locals, had his picture taken with the village elders and left on a promise to have a visitors centre built, a museum, water pipeline, school and investment in agriculture and industry.
3 years on there’s a hand written sign up saying “Birth place of Barack Obama Snr” that’s it! There’s a picture of the great man and the locals all looking forward to the influx of finance.
Other than the sign theres nothing else to show for it. They still carry their water from lake Victoria in Jerry cans, there’s no electricity and most are subsistence farmers. There’s no museum, visitors centre and no tourist ever visits.
Having said that the people are very happy and don’t seem too fussed, certainly never heard of Oxfam or Bob Geldof.
Most of the foreign aid never gets past the government officials and food unloaded at Mombasa will never reach the needy. No chance.
This is a country where a 100 mile drive will take all day and involve at least 4 bribes to the police en route.
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/TQyVZ9eD.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/H2q1W74V" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/H2q1W74V.png)
It’s not really a village just a hamlet to be fair.
A few years ago Mr Obama visited with his cavalcade, he shook hands with the locals, had his picture taken with the village elders and left on a promise to have a visitors centre built, a museum, water pipeline, school and investment in agriculture and industry.
3 years on there’s a hand written sign up saying “Birth place of Barack Obama Snr” that’s it! There’s a picture of the great man and the locals all looking forward to the influx of finance.
Other than the sign theres nothing else to show for it. They still carry their water from lake Victoria in Jerry cans, there’s no electricity and most are subsistence farmers. There’s no museum, visitors centre and no tourist ever visits.
Having said that the people are very happy and don’t seem too fussed, certainly never heard of Oxfam or Bob Geldof.
Most of the foreign aid never gets past the government officials and food unloaded at Mombasa will never reach the needy. No chance.
This is a country where a 100 mile drive will take all day and involve at least 4 bribes to the police en route.
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Monday 21st June 15:53
shih tzu faced said:
StevieBee said:
I'll see your Tescos and raise you the 47 companies who's project I'm involved with currently who've committed £400m annually to dealing with plastic waste in under developed countries. That's a meaningful amount of money, of that's there's no doubt....until you realise that the annual combined revenue of those companies is $2.7 trillion (not a typo - that's Trillion)..... and that they represent the largest contributors of plastic waste on earth.
Absolutely no doubt that they'll be ramming their virtuous message down the throats of their customers too.Countdown said:
shih tzu faced said:
StevieBee said:
I'll see your Tescos and raise you the 47 companies who's project I'm involved with currently who've committed £400m annually to dealing with plastic waste in under developed countries. That's a meaningful amount of money, of that's there's no doubt....until you realise that the annual combined revenue of those companies is $2.7 trillion (not a typo - that's Trillion)..... and that they represent the largest contributors of plastic waste on earth.
Absolutely no doubt that they'll be ramming their virtuous message down the throats of their customers too.StevieBee said:
Storm drain in Tanzania
Are you seriously telling me that the residents of Tanzania were too thick or lazy to build a storm drain or ditch without the western aid?It infuriates me when the TV ad points out that the drinking water is contaminated by animal waste.
How monumentally stupid do you have to be to not spot that your water tastes of cow piss and your kids keep dying?
FFS in the medieval times every English village had a well. Who dug it?
Not the current band of virtue signalling idiots.
Edited by Jazzy Jag on Monday 21st June 16:35
Jazzy Jag said:
Are you seriously telling me that the residents of Tanzania were too thick or lazy to build a storm drain or ditch without the western aid?
I'm not an expert in infrastructure but was the storm drain that the aid helped to build possible for people who live in poverty without any tools, equipment, or raw materials?Countdown said:
Jazzy Jag said:
Are you seriously telling me that the residents of Tanzania were too thick or lazy to build a storm drain or ditch without the western aid?
I'm not an expert in infrastructure but was the storm drain that the aid helped to build possible for people who live in poverty without any tools, equipment, or raw materials?No one is able to make rudimentary tools which mankind has made for thousands of years?
Better to just sit in flood water looking forlorn for the News camera man until someone else comes to sort my problem.
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