Private schools, times a changing?

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BoRED S2upid said:

I was just about to throw Grammar schools into the mix no need to pay private if you have a decent one of those in your area.

It could always be worse you could be schooling your kids in Wales or Scotland.

Kent and Bucks have a fair few, but I don’t really want to move to either tbh. I also a suspect the houses have ‘fees’ baked in to an extent anyway in the case of Tunbridge Wells etc.

I’d rather live where I want and take the hit. Especially given stamp duty being what it is. I also think they’re very big schools in the case of Skinners etc. my wife went to a grammar for a bit and still refers to it as ‘the pykey school’ such were the folk there - despite being smart, they weren’t all that pleasant from her reports. That was Aylesbury though tbf, T wells likely much better.

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@ sheepshanks But all you end up with is then state schools that are literally only that by name and the houses cost £400k more because they’re in catchment.

London centric of course but a good example is The Hyde Farm estate in Balham, it’s about 10-15 roads with a decent primary and secondary, the catchment is tiny and houses are all IMO quite overpriced because they’re there - everyone that lives there is a well paid professional and basically the school is free but you’re paying overs for the house so much for much.

I hear your points and I agree, we probably will only have one which makes life easier - but is worth noting that of the people we know sending kids private both in London and other places, the majority have wealth in older generations that is paying for it.

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ClaphamGT3 said:

Both of ours are in the independent sector. London day pre-prep and prep, now weekly/flexi boarding just outside Brighton. Current thinking is that they'll come back to London for 6th form. Eldest certainly wants to do that. Youngest less certain.

One of the things we have been struck by since our eldest has developed some significant mental health issues recently (see separate thread on that topic) is the outstanding quality and quantity of pastoral care and collaboration with our daughter's clinical team that the school has been able to provide.

I'd hope that no one else would have to find out the quality of this but we have been blown away by how good it has been. As a governor of two state schools, this is something they just would t be able to provide.

Just clocked the other thread. Hadn’t seen that - best of luck with that, can’t be easy for anyone concerned.

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AstonZagato said:

A couple of considerations (for the record, I was privately educated, as were my three children):

1. If your child is Oxbridge material, the entry requirements are very heavily stacked against them. A lot of parents will put their kids in state six form colleges so that they tick the "state school entry" box. No other university is really called out on state vs private entry, so the pressure is less elsewhere. US Ivy League colleges have no qualms - but they are expensive unless you can win a sporting scholarship (a lot of the Eton/St Pauls/Radley first VIII crews seemingly now go to US colleges).
2. When you consider the cost, would you be better off just, say, buying a property for you child? 12 years of £25k+ pays a chunky mortgage, particularly if you rent it out until they graduate university. They might not have quite the education but they go have a mortgage free property to give them security.

Fair points re entry to such universities. It was why I started the thread of course, but now having seen the gulf I’d still rather just pay for the time being, if we move house at a later date and the potential is there I suppose some form of
system gaming can be conducted at a later point.

The house thing is a separate debate IMO, probably lucky to be able to do both but not sure I agree with gifting of a property in totality, it was what kept me motivated to some extent in my early 20’s. But each to their own on that front.

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One thing that does puzzle me is why some schools seemingly feature NOWHERE in exam results but are seemingly very expensive and sought after nonetheless?
Is there a lot of unspoken cache in the name of the school vs the output?

I note that Oxford is behind some of the London universities now on some of the rankings I’ve seen but it still is seen a clear cut above…

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ntiz said:

Ask most parents what they want for their children from education I’m willing to bet well over 50% would say a degree would be fantastic. Offer them like a 1st from Durham many would take your hand off regardless.

I think it’s throwback as when many parents went to school going to uni was only for the absolutely top hole students. Still see that as the highest level of attainment. Neither of my parents went to uni but ended up doing well for themselves. I was told in absolutely no uncertain terms that I was going university end of fking story. When I explained how it was when I got there they where bitterly disappointed when I told them it was 200 students being mumbled at by a lecturer who clearly didn’t want to be there. I dropped shortly after.

Would be really interesting to do a survey of what current parents think of the university as many would have gone through the modern system which will have probably formed a different attitude to the previous generation.

If my son asked about uni now I would ask what he wants to do and help him decide if a degree helps towards that goal or not. I certainly wouldn’t be encouraging him to go just to go.

The options you have with a decent degree from a decent uni are fairly extensive - I.e grad schemes almost anywhere in nearly any ‘thing’.

The options I had by comparison with almost no qualifications were almost nil, and you make your own luck, which of course some will and the vast majority don’t.

Beyond all of this is having a bit about you and being able to talk to people and be someone people want to know or interact with, but you can’t easily teach those things - so my fairly basic thinking is that if at least you have a decent degree behind you there are options, if you have both then who knows where you may end up.

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I don’t see they as any worse particularly than the state school being home to the local gypsy families kids and all the troubles that brings.

While in the state you’re unlikely to be seeing many Maybachs I can assure you drug use (loads in my school 20 years ago) will be present, and the behaviour of the worst of that lot will likely far outshine anything from monied yobs. Someone from my school was charged with attempted murder with a crossbow not too long ago - this was in one of the most wealthy areas of Hampshire, not Harlem.

And vacant parenting, well, the council types with 5 kids who do nothing all day probably aren’t much better than you’re pals with the chauffeur?

That all said I’ve heard some hilarious stories from my mate who taught at a fairly expensive school in Hampstead. Kids during Covid doing online lessons from private jets/yachts - being assholes to the teacher as they have a full time tutor anyway.

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Can anyone share what sort of discount you may get if you pay up front? I have read of that occasionally being an option?

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And what level are we talking? 5/10/20%?

Makes sense re your post Louis, I was thinking about the year vs a period longer. But would have to obviously make sense vs having cash sat elsewhere.

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The running out of money thing is interesting - the state I walked round were very hard up too, the head said that they would be renting out the little football pitch they had (like a cage football thing built on the roof of a block) to make extra revenue. I didn't come away feeling like the state schools were particularly stable financially, and I know that many of the religious ones have people donating each month etc.

A fair number of the schools that are in my area are either part of Dukes Education who seem to own about 20 schools in London or the Dulwich Estate, the latter looks to own most of Dulwich so perhaps a little more sheltered than some out there.

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B0bajobbob said:

Day school fees round here are about £36k a year per pupil. I could live with the VAT but I wouldn't enjoy it.

Where? That’s more than any I’ve ever seen and getting on the for cost of most boarding (with the upper limit of that being 45-50k).

My wife one of three that all went, father had a small business; I can only conclude that it must have been FAR easier 30 odd years ago to afford it than it is now.

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Day schools seem mostly to be in the 20's with a few in the 30's. Seems to me that as time goes on boarding only options may change, Winchester taking girls AND day students now, so perhaps Eton and the like will do likewise in years to come.

One thing I've started to notice is how strategic they seem to be with their admissions timelines. One of which wants a decision next month (if successful in the ballot for a Sept 2024 start. £3k deposit which you get back when the child LEAVES (so worth about a quid with this inflation in 10 years time). All very well, but the majority of the others don't even open their gates until September. So basically I have to accept that I may well lose £3k here if I end up preferring/getting into one of the 'better' ones. No prizes for guessing that this is run for profit, I bet they've had many of those £3k's in their time without taking the kids.

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Depends doesn’t it.

In big state schools you will get both ends. I remember if I got in trouble my parents sided with the opinion of the school. If the lad that lived on the farm up the road got in trouble his mother would be in the car threatening the staff.

Suspect an extreme example of that will be that the best kids from a London state may well end up un Oxbridge, the worst will end up dead by 18.

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The hours of schools I’ve visited so far haven’t been much different to state.

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Bursary/scholarships etc provide for that reason do they not? @cheesjunkie

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I don’t know whether it’s just a London thing but the places for many of the paid schools seem hard fought too! Alleyn’s which is one we will try for is hugely oversubscribed.

Must admit I hadn’t also appreciated just how many of the paid options are single sex. Still on the fence with how I feel about that.

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When someone bought their house basically dictates their entire life in London. Now those two couldn’t afford to live anywhere near you in a house big enough for 6.

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Seems fairly unremarkable doesn’t it, perhaps with the exception of the top paid person though there’s a lot of money and staff/responsibility there so it doesn’t surprise me it’s well paid at the top end.

Conversely the highest paid person in my sons nursery which probably costs more than that school is on £40k a year with most in the twenties. Someone’s getting rich.

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Hard to see how they manage it at under 3.5 years old mind you which is how old my son would be for some of these assessments if we go that route.

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WindyCommon said:

It’s a senior school. Entry at 11 or 13. Nothing to do with 3.5 year olds….

All of the sought after schools around here do assessments for entry at 4+.