Private schools, times a changing?
Discussion
deckster said:
I'm going to suggest that at 4 years old they are going to be assessing the parents a lot more than the child.
Nope. Kids for one of the schools are taken off without parents. Assessment done approx 10 months from the start of reception year so as a July kid my son would be a 3 years 4 months old. Mad really. What are they going to look at in a parent, not like there’s going to be any parents in Trapstar clothing and a Pitbull in tow. It’s one of my fascinations with the whole thing. Still, they turn out near perfect academic students hear after year so they obviously know more than I on the topic.
Well of course. All the kids must go somewhere from these prep schools.
I went to Dulwich Prep the other day and of their 75 students, almost 50 won scholarships in senior schools which I was quite amazed by. 95% apparently leaving the school at 13 get their first choice senior school (and the list of destinations is fairly punchy as you’d imagine). Seems being thick isn’t a thing for the paid sector.
I went to Dulwich Prep the other day and of their 75 students, almost 50 won scholarships in senior schools which I was quite amazed by. 95% apparently leaving the school at 13 get their first choice senior school (and the list of destinations is fairly punchy as you’d imagine). Seems being thick isn’t a thing for the paid sector.
ClaphamGT3 said:
I was talking about more profound needs than dyslexia.
What are we talking here?Given nobody would give you a diagnosis for anything under 4 or so it’s surprising that’s the reason behind it, though makes obvious sense when their currency is destination schools/GCSE/A Level results in the through schools.
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t people do st things. Fairly obvious. Just reading about another dog attack on a kid - never two chocolate labs in the posh end of town is it. The UK public are an eye opening bunch.
Hence why for me it is infinitely more impressive when a kid from a council estate with no role models and all the negative distractions in the world does well. That’s the whole point of the thread - obviously though if I leave my child to try and make his moonshot among all those sorts of personalities and such there’s a fairly good chance he wouldn’t be that bright kid and worst case he’d be much more trouble.
Alternative - spend some money and remove most of the guesswork/gamble from the equation. And still have the moonshot that they’re amazing even amongst a high level. But worst case is they come out probably in a vastly better position than the worst case of the state.
It’s a problem that grammar schools partially get rid of, but not totally I think. The interesting bit here if of course when they get left to their own devices and find booze, drugs and whatever else at uni. You can’t engineer someone forever and do these kids that are so coached for so long have that ‘now I’m free’ moment and go a bit wild more than those who have been free from the age of ten? Maybe. Lot of drug problems in posh schools, my mate did more beak at Bradfield than he did as a recruiter in London!
t people do st things. Fairly obvious. Just reading about another dog attack on a kid - never two chocolate labs in the posh end of town is it. The UK public are an eye opening bunch. Hence why for me it is infinitely more impressive when a kid from a council estate with no role models and all the negative distractions in the world does well. That’s the whole point of the thread - obviously though if I leave my child to try and make his moonshot among all those sorts of personalities and such there’s a fairly good chance he wouldn’t be that bright kid and worst case he’d be much more trouble.
Alternative - spend some money and remove most of the guesswork/gamble from the equation. And still have the moonshot that they’re amazing even amongst a high level. But worst case is they come out probably in a vastly better position than the worst case of the state.
It’s a problem that grammar schools partially get rid of, but not totally I think. The interesting bit here if of course when they get left to their own devices and find booze, drugs and whatever else at uni. You can’t engineer someone forever and do these kids that are so coached for so long have that ‘now I’m free’ moment and go a bit wild more than those who have been free from the age of ten? Maybe. Lot of drug problems in posh schools, my mate did more beak at Bradfield than he did as a recruiter in London!
I grew up near Lord Wandsworth and that’s nearly £30k day. Bedales also £30k day. So I think actually perhaps prices are higher than many give credit for - but I suppose these are still affected by London money.
One of the ones we are looking at has just increased fees by 8%, expensive business heating and feeding hundreds of people.
One of the ones we are looking at has just increased fees by 8%, expensive business heating and feeding hundreds of people.
Cheburator mk2 said:
Both kids at Alleyn's and the elder is about to go to Sevenoaks from the Autumn... Sadly, easily £25k each now and about £30k once both are in Sevenoaks... I don't see an alternative....
P.S. Mine was £12k per year in Edinburgh in 1994 (100% academic scholarship + bursary), now £40k...
You will find that a nursery school locally costs more than Alleyns. P.S. Mine was £12k per year in Edinburgh in 1994 (100% academic scholarship + bursary), now £40k...
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Tuesday 28th March 16:09
Interesting you’re moving them on, the appeal I gather from folk is that Alleyns is seen as a golden ticket all the way to 18!
I assume you’re moving house, that’s another element to all this, I’d probably buy another London house if got into Alleyns but if it’s one of the others it makes sense the coincide leaving London with the need to find a senior school.
WindyCommon said:
The path from Nappy Valley to leafy Surrey is predictable and well trodden….
I was chatting to a mate in Haslemere who moved out from London, he noted his entire local set of mates (made via his daughters private school down there, natch) had come from either Balham or Clapham 
We have almost certainly written off the state options now, have been to see the local two and they were nothing that special. Massive classes, huge range of ages together (blending of two year groups), distinct lack of facilities and space. All what you'd expect in Z2 London.
I've visited a number of schools in more built up areas, and now also a range of those in more leafy parts of the area (Dulwich namely) and honestly some of the latter schools have such an embarrassment of riches in terms of facilities that they make some of the other paid options in say Clapham look quite lacking. One thing I've found is how diversity changes through areas and schools, it really is a case by case, it isn't ruled only by money as they all cost about the same, but there must be a lot more to it that means most of the kids in certain schools are white british vs others being much more diverse.
The next tricky thing that we're having to think/decide on is boys school vs co-ed. The different age groupings that brings, and also what we think long term of that given in the real world there are also females, unless you work in car sales. My leaning is that if it wasn't vaguely sensible as a concept then we'd have stopped doing it in this day and age, my wife who went to girls schools thought that it wasn't particularly healthy and lots of the girls went a bit mad when they got into 6th form/uni because of it. Obviously all the heads have their pitch as to why it works/why it doesn't - anyone had their mind turned on this?
I've visited a number of schools in more built up areas, and now also a range of those in more leafy parts of the area (Dulwich namely) and honestly some of the latter schools have such an embarrassment of riches in terms of facilities that they make some of the other paid options in say Clapham look quite lacking. One thing I've found is how diversity changes through areas and schools, it really is a case by case, it isn't ruled only by money as they all cost about the same, but there must be a lot more to it that means most of the kids in certain schools are white british vs others being much more diverse.
The next tricky thing that we're having to think/decide on is boys school vs co-ed. The different age groupings that brings, and also what we think long term of that given in the real world there are also females, unless you work in car sales. My leaning is that if it wasn't vaguely sensible as a concept then we'd have stopped doing it in this day and age, my wife who went to girls schools thought that it wasn't particularly healthy and lots of the girls went a bit mad when they got into 6th form/uni because of it. Obviously all the heads have their pitch as to why it works/why it doesn't - anyone had their mind turned on this?
mikey_b said:
The lack of space for facilities is perhaps inevitable in a dense city environment like Z2 London, but the mixing of year groups is curious. Larger primaries tend to have multiple classes per year, not the other way around. Very small rural primaries do mix ages, as otherwise they'd only have half a dozen kids per class, and/or don't have 6 or 7 classrooms (or teachers) anyway.
I think it is to do with there being fewer kids born in London. The situation with the school in question is that they were expanding to a second site so they had the opportunity to take more children per year. Covid hit and now they don't have enough kids to fill both sites, so the original victorian building will be sold and they're all piling into the new site.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/17/london... - more here. I think in essence what I see here is that people either have money to buy a house and stay in London with kids, those people either go to church and get into the local highly regarded church school (which I can't be arsed with). Or they send private. The rest typically look to move out of the area when they have their second young kid as they can't afford a house at £1.xm from their flat. All that remains really seem to be the huge estates we have in Lambeth, their kids end up in the states, which typically means they're pretty dire at secondary level as behavioural issues in south london are rife.
I went to a rural school and indeed we did have about 10 of us per class, I think 11 in my year 6 cohort, no mixing ages. I then went to a secondary with 8 forms per year group, quite the wake up call that was!
Edited by okgo on Friday 12th May 15:15
brickwall said:
I presume you’ve been to see Dulwich Prep, Alleyns Juniors, and Dulwich College.
The college has better facilities by virtue of sharing with the senior school, but honestly is less high-achieving (especially 3-13) than the Prep. And it’s not as if the Prep’s facilities are falling short!
Only DPL so far, the others I will do in due course. Though DC entry at 4 is a bit of a weird one vs the others. DPL very impressive as you say. Though can see the appeal of getting a spot at the other two which obviously means you're kind of done with entry tests. Though kind of hoping that doesn't happen as I don't want to have to buy another London house, which I think I'd feel obliged to if Alleyn's happened.The college has better facilities by virtue of sharing with the senior school, but honestly is less high-achieving (especially 3-13) than the Prep. And it’s not as if the Prep’s facilities are falling short!
My son is 2 so it can be difficult to work out what sort of kid they are in some of those areas. I suspect it’ll become clear as time goes on. I’m not interested in the local states so will go with one or other private option from reception. Visiting them only compounded my thoughts. Obviously I could move house to another area with better states but I’d spend half of his entire educational cost on stamp duty so it seems pointless. And some of the states that fit that bill are also entirely identikit because the only people that can afford houses near to catchment are the usual private suspects.
The diversity/entitlement thing is interesting from your daughters, I live in a much more diverse area (currently) than say ‘nappy valley’ so just existing here you’ll see all sorts of people and things you wouldn’t in some areas. We have lots of mates in London who won’t send their kids private that my son mixes/will continue to mix with so I’m not fussed in that sense.
The diversity/entitlement thing is interesting from your daughters, I live in a much more diverse area (currently) than say ‘nappy valley’ so just existing here you’ll see all sorts of people and things you wouldn’t in some areas. We have lots of mates in London who won’t send their kids private that my son mixes/will continue to mix with so I’m not fussed in that sense.
JimmyConwayNW said:
Don’t most schools just offer holiday clubs where there are activities ?
How much is the salary for a Nanny in London? I thought people would get rid of this when the kids started at school.
More than you think. One of our babysitters works 4 days a week doing 11 hour days for a family in Balham. They pay her £45k a year to do so. That’s two kids and the older one is in nursery two days a week too. One assumes that £20 an hour or so is about right given babysitters charge 14-16. How much is the salary for a Nanny in London? I thought people would get rid of this when the kids started at school.
I wonder how many of those of us thinking/sending kids to private options went themselves.
A large part of the reason I considered it in the first place was because of the state secondary I attended (which I’m sure is miles better than most) didn’t have the capacity to help kids who were not very self motivated/interested. I left there with a handful of pants GCSE’s and no further qualifications despite being quite bright in primary.
A large part of the reason I considered it in the first place was because of the state secondary I attended (which I’m sure is miles better than most) didn’t have the capacity to help kids who were not very self motivated/interested. I left there with a handful of pants GCSE’s and no further qualifications despite being quite bright in primary.
Sheepshanks said:
Your parents would have had to have been very careful about the choice of private school for you - many show the door to kids who are going to mess up the school’s exam stats.
The time to go was obvious to me, early secondary years if not from the start of secondary. By the time I was a teenager the rot had set in. The problem was that my dad showed attitudes like the ones above - self made, only ever worked for himself and therefore why can’t anyone else, survivorship bias (and a tight git too so paid school wouldn’t have appealed). Well, that didn’t work out so well for me!
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