Private schools, times a changing?
Discussion
pingu393 said:
okgo said:
Well of course. All the kids must go somewhere from these prep schools.
I went to Dulwich Prep the other day and of their 75 students, almost 50 won scholarships in senior schools which I was quite amazed by. 95% apparently leaving the school at 13 get their first choice senior school (and the list of destinations is fairly punchy as you’d imagine). Seems being thick isn’t a thing for the paid sector.
I think that you will find that there are very few genuinely thick children who don't also display some sort of disability. There are, though, lots of kids who are lazy. Paid education don't allow the kids to be lazy. They are encouraged and their peers strive to achieve, as opposed to striving to skive.I went to Dulwich Prep the other day and of their 75 students, almost 50 won scholarships in senior schools which I was quite amazed by. 95% apparently leaving the school at 13 get their first choice senior school (and the list of destinations is fairly punchy as you’d imagine). Seems being thick isn’t a thing for the paid sector.
The difference was eye opening. In the top set pupils had genuine ambitions to go to university and appreciated that learning was beneficial.
In the middle set you would have been laughed at or possibly bullied if you mentioned those aspirations.
University was for ‘those posh/clever people’. The ones in the middle set knew their place (at least that’s how it felt).
When I was in the sixth form, the teachers addressed the entire lower sixth regarding the ucas application process and advised us not to bother with Oxbridge as none of us were good enough. Likewise they advised not putting down Medicine as that would be a waste of an application.
For these reasons I decided I wanted my son to go to a grammar or independant school where lids would be pushed and also encouraged to be ambitious rather than be put in their place.
FWIW my former school is now rated as outstanding (and apparantly was highly regarded back in the day too).
I think the 90s were different…
okgo said:
Well of course. All the kids must go somewhere from these prep schools.
I went to Dulwich Prep the other day and of their 75 students, almost 50 won scholarships in senior schools which I was quite amazed by. 95% apparently leaving the school at 13 get their first choice senior school (and the list of destinations is fairly punchy as you’d imagine). Seems being thick isn’t a thing for the paid sector.
I went to the Prep. It’s an incredible school. The standards are insane, and at the time you (as a pupil) don’t realise it - it’s just normal to you. I went to Dulwich Prep the other day and of their 75 students, almost 50 won scholarships in senior schools which I was quite amazed by. 95% apparently leaving the school at 13 get their first choice senior school (and the list of destinations is fairly punchy as you’d imagine). Seems being thick isn’t a thing for the paid sector.
It’s only when you leave you realise the comparison points of “top of the class” you were aiming for (in whatever discipline - academics, music, sport, etc.) turn out to be close to “top of the country”.
Be aware though quite sheltered. IMHO that’s fine and something that can be rectified after 13.
Fat hippo said:
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The headmaster questioned me on my background, qualifications and job plus my expectations of the school and views on education.
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For my son's school (very well known private school), my wife and I were asked to meet the headmaster along with my son (aged 10/11 for entry at 11). Very relaxed but the emphasis was as much on us as our son. He worked out that both my wife and I had been to Oxbridge. Not sure if that sealed it (my boy played a blinder) but he offered my son a place then and there. My wife and I occasionally joke that we added some balance by being not covered in orange fake tan (school very definitely attracted that demographic).The headmaster questioned me on my background, qualifications and job plus my expectations of the school and views on education.
...snip
okgo said:
You’ve misunderstood me. I was suggesting that despite my son not likely being capable of building a bridge just yet, I can throw money at the situation and perpetuate the chasm in have/have not. Someone will take my cash!
Yes, but many don't get into their first-choice senior schools. If it were once possible to buy the specific independent education you wanted for your kids, that isn't the case today. This is perhaps the most prevalent misunderstanding over independent education... All the money in the world (I guess short of endowing a new science wing etc) won't get your kids into one of the "top" schools if they can't negotiate the entrance examinations and other admission hurdles. Admission to the Westminsters/St Pauls/Hamptons etc is savagely meritocratic, and the reality is that your kids will be competing with seriously motivated kids(& parents!) from around the world.
AstonZagato said:
Fat hippo said:
...snip
The headmaster questioned me on my background, qualifications and job plus my expectations of the school and views on education.
...snip
For my son's school (very well known private school), my wife and I were asked to meet the headmaster along with my son (aged 10/11 for entry at 11). Very relaxed but the emphasis was as much on us as our son. He worked out that both my wife and I had been to Oxbridge. Not sure if that sealed it (my boy played a blinder) but he offered my son a place then and there. My wife and I occasionally joke that we added some balance by being not covered in orange fake tan (school very definitely attracted that demographic).The headmaster questioned me on my background, qualifications and job plus my expectations of the school and views on education.
...snip
That all comes from their upbringing and from the values of education that the parents instill on them.
Thats why the headteacher is judging the parents.
AstonZagato said:
Fat hippo said:
...snip
The headmaster questioned me on my background, qualifications and job plus my expectations of the school and views on education.
...snip
For my son's school (very well known private school), my wife and I were asked to meet the headmaster along with my son (aged 10/11 for entry at 11). Very relaxed but the emphasis was as much on us as our son. He worked out that both my wife and I had been to Oxbridge. Not sure if that sealed it (my boy played a blinder) but he offered my son a place then and there. My wife and I occasionally joke that we added some balance by being not covered in orange fake tan (school very definitely attracted that demographic).The headmaster questioned me on my background, qualifications and job plus my expectations of the school and views on education.
...snip
RammyMP said:
AstonZagato said:
Fat hippo said:
...snip
The headmaster questioned me on my background, qualifications and job plus my expectations of the school and views on education.
...snip
For my son's school (very well known private school), my wife and I were asked to meet the headmaster along with my son (aged 10/11 for entry at 11). Very relaxed but the emphasis was as much on us as our son. He worked out that both my wife and I had been to Oxbridge. Not sure if that sealed it (my boy played a blinder) but he offered my son a place then and there. My wife and I occasionally joke that we added some balance by being not covered in orange fake tan (school very definitely attracted that demographic).The headmaster questioned me on my background, qualifications and job plus my expectations of the school and views on education.
...snip
ClaphamGT3 said:
okgo said:
Hard to see how they manage it at under 3.5 years old mind you which is how old my son would be for some of these assessments if we go that route.
Independent pre prep assessments are to screen out children with SENLeithen said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
okgo said:
Hard to see how they manage it at under 3.5 years old mind you which is how old my son would be for some of these assessments if we go that route.
Independent pre prep assessments are to screen out children with SEN
ClaphamGT3 said:
I was talking about more profound needs than dyslexia.
What are we talking here?Given nobody would give you a diagnosis for anything under 4 or so it’s surprising that’s the reason behind it, though makes obvious sense when their currency is destination schools/GCSE/A Level results in the through schools.
okgo said:
I went to Dulwich Prep the other day and of their 75 students, almost 50 won scholarships in senior schools which I was quite amazed by. 95% apparently leaving the school at 13 get their first choice senior school (and the list of destinations is fairly punchy as you’d imagine). Seems being thick isn’t a thing for the paid sector.
Hope you made a good impression! Pretty sure you'd have been vetted on that visit. When I went I pretty much went through my CV with the headteacher 
gangzoom said:
Fat hippo said:
I’m no expert but maybe they thought that demonstrated resilience, strength of character, confidence, leadership potential
Ability to demonstrate delayed gratification in children has been shown to correlate to academic performance in later life.WindyCommon said:
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All the money in the world (I guess short of endowing a new science wing etc) won't get your kids into one of the "top" schools if they can't negotiate the entrance examinations and other admission hurdles.
snip...
There was a (possibly apocryphal) story that a wealthy investment banker (I vaguely know him and have heard it from a couple of sources) was trying to get his daughters into a top London school. The Head said that the child needed to be academically capable but also the parents commitment and contribution to the school would be judged. The banker questioned it as much as he dared and took it to be a requirement to make a substantial financial contribution. He offered to make a substantial donation - the Head purred, "You realise that this won't guarantee a place but it will help". He understood that the be a wink-wink-nudge-nudge-say-no-more approval. All the money in the world (I guess short of endowing a new science wing etc) won't get your kids into one of the "top" schools if they can't negotiate the entrance examinations and other admission hurdles.
snip...
He therefore endowed the school with a library.
The school turned his daughters down.
Fat hippo said:
For these reasons I decided I wanted my son to go to a grammar or independent school where kids would be pushed and also encouraged to be ambitious rather than be put in their place.
I mentioned some while back that a friends wife taught in both the state and private sector. Her experience was that the private schools had a much more collaborative atmosphere with the parents whereas the state schools were adversarial ... teachers were the enemy. This, of course, is not universal, but her experience. In my experience (my children were at private schools), everyone (teachers, parents and pupils) felt they were there for a common purpose and the parents supported the teachers - there was also the atmosphere of 'anything is possible'. There's no alchemy to this culture, but I wonder why it can't be adopted at all schools? Could the parents play a role in this?
NDA said:
I mentioned some while back that a friends wife taught in both the state and private sector. Her experience was that the private schools had a much more collaborative atmosphere with the parents whereas the state schools were adversarial ... teachers were the enemy. This, of course, is not universal, but her experience.
In my experience (my children were at private schools), everyone (teachers, parents and pupils) felt they were there for a common purpose and the parents supported the teachers - there was also the atmosphere of 'anything is possible'. There's no alchemy to this culture, but I wonder why it can't be adopted at all schools? Could the parents play a role in this?
At a Public School where I was doing a contract role I spoke to the Headmaster about the School's academic performance (something like 99% A-C compared to the 55% target for State schools). He said that when parents are paying £20k plus for their child's education they are highly engaged and motivated. At a State School where i was doing a similar contract role i was discussing the financial costs of providing free breakfasts for all students. One of the Deputy Headteachers told me that some parents basically kick their kids out of the house at 8am and don't want them back until 6pm and the School was fortunate that most of them turned up wearing their school uniforms.In my experience (my children were at private schools), everyone (teachers, parents and pupils) felt they were there for a common purpose and the parents supported the teachers - there was also the atmosphere of 'anything is possible'. There's no alchemy to this culture, but I wonder why it can't be adopted at all schools? Could the parents play a role in this?
One of the main (if not THE main) factors in a child's academic attainment is how engaged and involved their parents are in their education.
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