Private schools, times a changing?

[WindyCommon]

okgo said:

… I’d probably buy another London house if got into Alleyns but if it’s one of the others it makes sense the coincide leaving London with the need to find a senior school.

The path from Nappy Valley to leafy Surrey is predictable and well trodden….

[Portofino]

Can’t say I’ve seen it mentioned so apologies if so, but Labour looking to put VAT on school fees as part of their manifesto. That’ll sting a bit.

[NDA]

Portofino said:

Can’t say I’ve seen it mentioned so apologies if so, but Labour looking to put VAT on school fees as part of their manifesto. That’ll sting a bit.

It was mentioned earlier. I suspect many will move into the already rammed state sector and the additional cost to the taxpayer will be substantial. But the mouth-breathers will be happy, cos thems all toffs innit?

[okgo]

WindyCommon said:

The path from Nappy Valley to leafy Surrey is predictable and well trodden….

I was chatting to a mate in Haslemere who moved out from London, he noted his entire local set of mates (made via his daughters private school down there, natch) had come from either Balham or Clapham

[ClaphamGT3]

Portofino said:

Can’t say I’ve seen it mentioned so apologies if so, but Labour looking to put VAT on school fees as part of their manifesto. That’ll sting a bit.

This is going to drive some interesting dynamics in the sector.

Wealthy schools with large endowments will absorb some or all of the cost

Higher performing schools that may not have large endowments will be able to pass on the cost

Smaller independents that don't have an endowment and don't have the reputation to raise fees by 20% will struggle & possibly fail

That all pre-supposes that Labour in office (a) go anywhere near it and (b) if they do, they manage to get it onto the statute books in one parliament.

Quite apart from the fact that it makes absolutely no financial sense, legislating for the change will take an inordinate amount of time and the legal challenges by the sector will be unreal.

I suspect that, in the end, Starmer and Reynolds will put this in the 'too hard' box and put up with the wailing and renting of garments from Phillipson and Reeves.

[gareth h]

okgo said:

WindyCommon said:

The path from Nappy Valley to leafy Surrey is predictable and well trodden….

I was chatting to a mate in Haslemere who moved out from London, he noted his entire local set of mates (made via his daughters private school down there, natch) had come from either Balham or Clapham

Yeah, the London types do circle their wagons when they move to the country

[JimmyConwayNW]

7yr old started a private school for the start of summer term. Great first week.

She has completely taken it in her stride.

So far one week in she is absolutely loving it and can't wait to go in.

Noticeable differences over state so far as a direct comparison. Clear communication.
I know what her lunch menu is, I know what her after school club choices are. I know her timetable and an see what lessons are planned.
A weekly email showing what the class had done.
A term update showing the topic and what they are doing therefore I can be aware and then help out and show her things that relate or plan a weekend trip ie this terms topic is the rainforest, so if we are at the Zoo explain certain animals from the rainforest or such like.
She has done french lessons.
She has had a karate lesson.
She has done violin lessons.

Now none of this is rocket science its just a spreadsheet shared on a google drive, but what a difference. Honestly couldn't really tell you much of what she had been doing at the previous school.
I don't think it would be to hard for a tech savvy forward thinking state to provide updates and her state school wasn't a great example I know of a few friends with similar age kids who would be hard pushed to see the difference in paying and their children are at outstanding schools with great communication.

Its early days yet but I have got an incredibly happy daughter, she had been acting out a lot at home minor stuff but continually telling off and I haven't had to raise my voice for 7 days.

I couldn't be prouder of how she has thrown herself into the new school, taken it in her stride and got stuck in.

big mix of parents, premiership big name footballers, plastic surgeons and doctors, through to people who look like they are scraping by. Everyone quite warm and friendly plenty of smiles and hellos at pick up / drop off rather than eyes down look at floor of previous school.

Many, many hours of research went into this, I feel I've done my job as a Dad and also pretty pleased with myself that I have got myself in a position to give her the opportunity.

[beagrizzly]

JimmyConwayNW said:

Noticeable differences over state so far as a direct comparison. Clear communication.
I know what her lunch menu is, I know what her after school club choices are. I know her timetable and an see what lessons are planned.
A weekly email showing what the class had done.
A term update showing the topic and what they are doing therefore I can be aware and then help out and show her things that relate or plan a weekend trip ie this terms topic is the rainforest, so if we are at the Zoo explain certain animals from the rainforest or such like.
She has done french lessons.
She has had a karate lesson.
She has done violin lessons.

Forgive me, and I'm certainly not questioning your choice, but we get all of the above (with the exception of karate) at our small primary. I suspect you can and are only comparing with the school she would be at if you hadn't chosen private - which is fair enough - rather than a blanket 'state', possibly with a side order of confirmation bias.

[Sheepshanks]

beagrizzly said:

I suspect you can and are only comparing with the school she would be at if you hadn't chosen private....

He literally says exactly that in his post.

[beagrizzly]

Sheepshanks said:

beagrizzly said:

I suspect you can and are only comparing with the school she would be at if you hadn't chosen private....

He literally says exactly that in his post.

He literally says 'differences over state', which was the basis for my post.

[JimmyConwayNW]

In a week they are the differences I have seen over her state school which is regarded as ofsted 'requires improvement'. ( It wasn't at start time although tbh it was just a local primary she got into near the house I can't say I did a lot of research around education, feel a little guilty for that now.)

The state primary was in Cheshire. Nice part of the county, mostly decent people with most from 2 parent working households rather than doleys. We aren't talking inner city knife crime gang warfare zone.

To me and her mum it felt at 7 years old she was already going to be written off by the school.

I'm interested to see where my daughter can get to with my help and a good enriching environment. A hell of lot of catching up to do.

Again experience could be vastly different if she were in an outstanding or a good primary and then perhaps wouldn't have found ourselves in this position.

I'll add balance to this as things go on. I have a nice kid, well mannered, confident chatty and athletic. Low academic ability for age range currently so lets see where she ends up.

I run a business, schools are a business and I can see several key ways the state could have improved things in terms of communication with us as a family. My experience was incredibly poor.

[beagrizzly]

JimmyConwayNW said:

In a week they are the differences I have seen over her state school which is regarded as ofsted 'requires improvement'. ( It wasn't at start time although tbh it was just a local primary she got into near the house I can't say I did a lot of research around education, feel a little guilty for that now.)

The state primary was in Cheshire. Nice part of the county, mostly decent people with most from 2 parent working households rather than doleys. We aren't talking inner city knife crime gang warfare zone.

To me and her mum it felt at 7 years old she was already going to be written off by the school.

I'm interested to see where my daughter can get to with my help and a good enriching environment. A hell of lot of catching up to do.

Again experience could be vastly different if she were in an outstanding or a good primary and then perhaps wouldn't have found ourselves in this position.

I'll add balance to this as things go on. I have a nice kid, well mannered, confident chatty and athletic. Low academic ability for age range currently so lets see where she ends up.

I run a business, schools are a business and I can see several key ways the state could have improved things in terms of communication with us as a family. My experience was incredibly poor.

It's a shame the state system varies so wildly. I'm a product of a well-regarded public school myself, but we have gone down the state route, and so far no serious complaints, but I am well aware that this is not the case for all. My son's secondary I would almost put on a par with the school I attended, though I left that school 30 years ago, and things have moved on a lot since then.

We are lucky to have good state schools nearby, I guess. I wonder what we'd have done if the local schools had been below par.

[Sheepshanks]

JimmyConwayNW said:

Again experience could be vastly different if she were in an outstanding or a good primary and then perhaps wouldn't have found ourselves in this position.

We had a granddaughter in an Outstanding Cheshire primary school and it was hopeless. Her mother is a teacher and became a Governor and still couldn't change things. Granddaughter moved to a private school and it was night and day difference.

[beagrizzly]

Sheepshanks said:

We had a granddaughter in an Outstanding Cheshire primary school and it was hopeless. Her mother is a teacher and became a Governor and still couldn't change things. Granddaughter moved to a private school and it was night and day difference.

What made it 'hopeless'? Seems nuts that a school assessed as outstanding could be failing any pupil.

[Jonathan27]

ClaphamGT3 said:

Portofino said:

Can’t say I’ve seen it mentioned so apologies if so, but Labour looking to put VAT on school fees as part of their manifesto. That’ll sting a bit.

This is going to drive some interesting dynamics in the sector.

Wealthy schools with large endowments will absorb some or all of the cost

Higher performing schools that may not have large endowments will be able to pass on the cost

Smaller independents that don't have an endowment and don't have the reputation to raise fees by 20% will struggle & possibly fail

That all pre-supposes that Labour in office (a) go anywhere near it and (b) if they do, they manage to get it onto the statute books in one parliament.

Quite apart from the fact that it makes absolutely no financial sense, legislating for the change will take an inordinate amount of time and the legal challenges by the sector will be unreal.

I suspect that, in the end, Starmer and Reynolds will put this in the 'too hard' box and put up with the wailing and renting of garments from Phillipson and Reeves.

Ultimately its a false economy. You will raise some additional VAT from the top tier schools, but that will be offset by the lower tier schools seeing a mass exodus of students moving from a system that cost the sate nothing, in to the already overburdened state system.

[beagrizzly]

Jonathan27 said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

Portofino said:

Can’t say I’ve seen it mentioned so apologies if so, but Labour looking to put VAT on school fees as part of their manifesto. That’ll sting a bit.

This is going to drive some interesting dynamics in the sector.

Wealthy schools with large endowments will absorb some or all of the cost

Higher performing schools that may not have large endowments will be able to pass on the cost

Smaller independents that don't have an endowment and don't have the reputation to raise fees by 20% will struggle & possibly fail

That all pre-supposes that Labour in office (a) go anywhere near it and (b) if they do, they manage to get it onto the statute books in one parliament.

Quite apart from the fact that it makes absolutely no financial sense, legislating for the change will take an inordinate amount of time and the legal challenges by the sector will be unreal.

I suspect that, in the end, Starmer and Reynolds will put this in the 'too hard' box and put up with the wailing and renting of garments from Phillipson and Reeves.

Ultimately its a false economy. You will raise some additional VAT from the top tier schools, but that will be offset by the lower tier schools seeing a mass exodus of students moving from a system that cost the sate nothing, in to the already overburdened state system.

Politics of envy in perhaps its purest form. Makes no sense whatsoever.

[fridaypassion]

Jimmy thats good to hear. My Daughter started in her new school this term also. She seems to be settling in pretty quickly. There are only 20 kids in her year group and all the girls hang out together in breaks/lunch so that really suits her she's just so quiet (not at home!) We are hoping that she will thrive in this smaller less busy environment.

She's adapting to the teaching style which seems to be much less strict than her old state school she actually said some of the classroom discipline is lacking! I think the kids have more freedom just to get on with what they are doing there.

Her new school is a very small independent school. Its nowhere near as expensive as the big one in town we just felt it was a halfway compromise between the local comp and the big posh private school. Haven't met any parents as she's on the school transport. I think if we had left her at the comp she would have had a miserable time and the opportunity to be able to do this for her well I'm glad we have the option it makes toiling at work seem more worthwhile!

She has two younger siblings that may or may not follow in her it means we have one year where we would be paying for 3 kids which is a big thing for me to take on!

[Jonathan27]

Tom8 said:

Trax said:

brickwall said:

It doesn’t matter whether it’s true or not for individual parents. What matters is how it appears.

The reality is £25k/year (or more) per child is seen as so far out of reach to anyone on anything resembling a ‘normal’ income that it is put firmly in the category of “only accessible to the 1%”

As you say, there will be plenty of parents who make sacrifices to afford it, or who can afford it but don’t see themselves as especially wealthy.

But what about the majority of private schools not in London, that charge about half of that? With two parents of average incomes makin sacrifices to send a child? Its them who will be affected, the rich will just miss a weekend on the yacht.

25k or more is pretty exceptional, mostly for boarding or top end schools. Sub 20k is "normal" Driving past local comp the other day it looked like a new car show room. I suppose it is all about priorities, spend on yourself or spend on your children.

I agree, when I pick my kids up from their school (private) most cars are >10 years old and mid market. You then drive past the local state on the way home and everyone has a new Merc / BMW / Audi. The fees for one child are about the same as buying a decent new car every three years.

[z4RRSchris]

I used to ask my old man why we didnt have nice new cars and he would just say if i took you 4 kids out of school we could have any we wanted.

old merc and volvo estates, covered in mud, few dogs in the back.

[Sheepshanks]

beagrizzly said:

What made it 'hopeless'? Seems nuts that a school assessed as outstanding could be failing any pupil.

The school is, somehow, highly regarded but its Outstanding rating is from 2012. Since then the Head, and most other staff, have changed. It's now part of a small Academy Trust.

It's obviously the default choice in its village, but it also has high demand from around the area as they've put a lot of effort into wrap-around care so it's great for working parents.

I think it's just become a victim of itself - it's bursting at its seams and the issue our granddaughter was having was she was just a bit lost and as long as she didn't make a noise the teachers were just happy to overlook her. Lots of work was being left unfinished etc.

We're aware there's some unhappiness about it, but there isn't a realistic alternative for most people. And it's a "nice" school, nice area etc, so most people will put up with it, plus it feeds into a well regarded County high school so to some extent it's a means to an end.