Private schools, times a changing?

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Leithen said:

Exponential growth. Get with the program. This is PH after all.

Looks like you got your Ferrari eventually

You’re bang on. I walked round the local state wanting to love it and save the £25k I’ve been paying for nursery for the last 3 years. But no, it was ste, the decision took moments to arrive at.

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Tom8 said:

Can we tax families who move house or buy second properties so their kids get into better comps? Maybe tax their white range rovers and audis?

I know someone who has rented a place that they won’t ever live in for this purpose…

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M1AGM said:

So no kids then?

Of course he doesn’t.

Honestly he kills every thread he joins, just bogs it down with verbose dullness. Assume he’s a returning member with a new name.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-67682...

Shame, had looked at a house out that way and went round this place. Lovely setting considering promixity to London etc. Didn’t go for the house in the end.

Can only imagine this is going to become a more common sight as time goes on.

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So the time has arrived to make a decision on this and I was interested to hear opinions of those who have been through this, specifically the pressure of senior school entrance exams vs through school options.

We have two offers of interest, one an all through option 4-18 and the other 4-13 (ironically many of the boys from the latter end up in the senior school of the former), I like the option of other schools/leaving London of the 4-13 school, but am I underestimating the pressure and stress of entrance exams for age 13? Should this really be avoided at all costs if you can (seems to the popular opinion on certain other forums frequented by mums ).

What say you?

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Shaoxter said:

Congrats on the offers! All through schools are slightly overrated IMO, it's a long time to stay in one school with the same people and they are generally less academic, although of course you would expect the selective senior schools to achieve better results.

For now I would just go with whichever school you think is best for your kid, there's lots of future entry points at 7+, 8+, 11+, 13+, 16+ for changing schools.

The senior school is pretty academic, it’s just that we got a deferred offer which they don’t give out to all (your son goes to the 4-13 option IIRC) so makes it a little easier to commit to.

I think probably was worth adding that we also want to move house, and while financials aren’t the basis for this move, we are thinking that having some closure for the next 15 years or so is enough to warrant pissing £150k in stamp duty away - staying in our current place isn’t an option for another 8 years and I also don’t want to move house twice in that time for obvious reasons. It’s probably as much about that as it is school as both options are likely great in a schooling sense.

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The majority of day schools are likely to be pretty reasonable when stacked against boarding only options such as the two you’ve listed.

£52k to board where my son is likely to go, £24k for day school. That’s less than the nursery he will leave.

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It’s so alien reading about some of these happenings like ‘being put in school at year 5’ - the big reason we are going to do it from Reception is that it’s the biggest intake and the assessment to see ‘if they want you’ is play based vs what I imagine is a much more formal process at age 8. There is no deciding when you’ll put them in, there is simply no options for that it feels.

Suppose supply/demand is different in London but the ‘offer day’ last week of 3 schools we had assessments at felt a bit like results day when I got my GSCE’s!

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You know most of the better private schools are academically selective yes?

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beagrizzly said:

In case relevant: I'm a product of the independent sector, but my kids are at the local state school, because it's very good and I see little benefit in sending them to one of the plethora of private schools nearby - in fact I see many disbenefits.

I have no problem with VAT on school fees - probably somebody will now point out that it's because I'm not paying any, which is perhaps a fair point - it is, in my view, a luxury, and for it to be tax-exempt is odd.

I do think, however, that they should consider a gradual introduction to reduce the pain for those already in the system. Even then, though, this is only really a consideration for those making sacrifices to afford it, and who are borderline for affordability. The wealthy should probably just suck it up.

Edited by beagrizzly on Tuesday 19th March 09:47

But as has been pointed out, I and many others who use private schools still pay plenty of tax into a state school system I have no intention of using, so is that not enough? The wealthy suck up an awful lot already in the U.K. if they work a salaried job (what is it now, over 30% of all tax take from the 1%?), this sounds a lot like the typical Labour voter view to me. Surprising seeing as you went to one yourself.

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The education and calibre of staff we’ve seen at the private offerings around here has been impressive. Many hugely qualified people passionate about their subjects. The two state schools we saw didn’t give off the same vibe.

The pay on offer is also good, and at more senior levels I would bet on it eclipsing the state sector. The head of one of the schools was making much more than a prime ministers salary, and of course has grace and favour house worth £5m quid! Can’t be all bad. Not sure the state is matching that.

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said:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5d0cd9a7ed915d094666a78d/Elitist_Britain_2019.pdf

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popegregory said:

Yes, the Sutton trust did a lot of work into this and it’s as skewed as you think (although I can’t recall numbers off the top of my head).

My botched quote post on page before I believe is that document.

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You don’t need to keep posting.

This thread wasn’t about the topic you’ve made it into anyway.

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youngsyr said:

I'm not asking you to post specifics, I'm asking for a general overview, just as I gave.

In your experience:

1) What rough percentage of private school students on average are on full bursaries?

2) What rough percentage are on >50% bursaries?

3) On 25-50% bursaries?

4) On <25% bursaries?

5) Are paying full fees?

6) What is the average annual fee (all in, including mandatory costs such as lunches and trips) for non-boarding pupils (you can average it over the entire school career or give by age)?

If you're not willing to give your view on the above, then I'm not sure what you can add to the discusion.

Dulwich College publish all this if you’re interested.

Circa 10% pay zero from memory.

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dimots said:

I’ll be voting labour. I’m all for more taxes as long as the Tories don’t get to spend it. I bet the majority of private school parents are business owners. Stats are inconclusive, got any?

I seriously doubt they are, especially as many of them are in London/SE where there is a much higher percentage of highly paid PAYE work.

Of the people I know sending their kids/planning to all are employees, including myself.

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Changing the topic slightly - what sort of pre-payment options typically exist for those with kids in school already?

We start in September but haven’t been told yet about this element.

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Why would it affect a grammar out of interest? Surely the opposite..?

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M1AGM said:

There are private schools that are genuinely selective and difficult to get in to but those are not the majority.

Yep.

We looked at I’d say 6-8 schools within a mile or two of us - it’s 50/50 which we’re selective and which just needed your interest/money in time. The most selective, probably Alleyn’s has something like 8-9 people applying per spot I read - nobody I know was offered a spot there!

And this is prime pushy parent London which you’d imagine is the height of selective beyond perhaps small pockets of Oxford. Imagine the vast majority nationally are somewhat easier to get a spot if you get your wallet out. That said some of the differences probably less obvious when you move to more rural areas. Certainly my state secondary had very good facilities.

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How does it work with schools like Tiffin in Kingston?

That is a very high performing school that is selective, not a grammar, but is state? Conversely Kingston Grammar School is now fee paying.

Ironically I think Reigate Grammar where Sir Starmer went was a grammar which became private very close to/when he was there..!