Private schools, times a changing?
Discussion
dimots said:
Also UK education league table rankings are falling, plummeting even, while Finland's are rising.
They pay more tax, and they have no (for profit) private schools.
It's not rocket science is it?
Yes and a bit OT, I got owned by my Finnish relatives when I thought their daughter was saying mother fThey pay more tax, and they have no (for profit) private schools.
It's not rocket science is it?
ker rather than makka pakka.Uncle cheese is not always the most observant listener and will happily be self deprecating. His baseless accusations are based on reading what some wrote and not baseless. But I can see the move from we to they.
Finland's doing ok for itself, the UK's report card would be better if it didn't have as much historical baggage and as many supporters of wealth based privilege.
I had lunch with an old friend today who is a governor of a private school and we talked about the VAT charge.
He said they are having dozens of meetings to talk about how they can absorb half of the VAT by cost cutting - the other 10% they will have to pass on with higher fees. His schools worry is that if anything over 15% of pupils leave, the school will become economically unviable and will have to close. It is a genuine and real concern.
Where these pupils will go in an already crowed state system locally is not known.
A triumph for Labour I suppose.
He said they are having dozens of meetings to talk about how they can absorb half of the VAT by cost cutting - the other 10% they will have to pass on with higher fees. His schools worry is that if anything over 15% of pupils leave, the school will become economically unviable and will have to close. It is a genuine and real concern.
Where these pupils will go in an already crowed state system locally is not known.
A triumph for Labour I suppose.
cheesejunkie said:
My niece shared a class with the pm of Finland’s daughter without her parents needing to pay a penny for her education. She’s smarter than her too. .
And Finland's PM(or anyone else) would probably wish that the chances of her daughter being in the same class of another innocent kid who is related to a deeply troubled person would have been much lower as that person simply would broadcast online to strangers that her daughter is not smart. cheesejunkie said:
I know when to keep my mouth shut and am very capable of doing so
seriously, do you?Tom8 said:
Needs dealing with, for sure. However - bad things also happen in private schools, despite being selective and not having to take the 'lower orders' (for want of a better phrase). Expulsion also much, much simpler in the private sector.One example - my niece's school, year 10 pupil expelled for drug dealing on school premises. Is now stalking and issuing threats to those she thinks 'grassed'.
It’s 100% a punitive tax. Certainly the way it is supposed to be implemented. It will bear no difference to the quality of the state school education. But it looks good on the manifesto.
Want to VAT private education that’s ok but do it in a phased way so schools, parents can plan ahead. Then look at VAT some universities too.
State has failed by not building more schools, not paying teachers what they should earn and by basically accepting the benefit of private schools as a way of helping their own balançar sheet and local schooling needs. The private schools, like it or not helped to disguise how inadequate and insufficient the state school system is. If private schools did not exist the current state school provision would be much worse in terms of capacity.
No point blaming Labour or Tories, both have not done enough. Same for NHS, defence, etc.
One has to serious question where all the money is going!
Want to VAT private education that’s ok but do it in a phased way so schools, parents can plan ahead. Then look at VAT some universities too.
State has failed by not building more schools, not paying teachers what they should earn and by basically accepting the benefit of private schools as a way of helping their own balançar sheet and local schooling needs. The private schools, like it or not helped to disguise how inadequate and insufficient the state school system is. If private schools did not exist the current state school provision would be much worse in terms of capacity.
No point blaming Labour or Tories, both have not done enough. Same for NHS, defence, etc.
One has to serious question where all the money is going!
CrgT16 said:
I
State has failed by not building more schools, (and other stuff)
This is a key problem. Within a few miles of where I live, we've had >800 additional houses built over the last 6 years. No additional schools, no additional doctors / dentists / hospital facilities, just houses. So the state schools have to deal with more pupils without any extra facilities or resources. State has failed by not building more schools, (and other stuff)
Our local village primary has four classrooms - 1 for Reception plus the younger year 1s, one for the older year 1s plus year 2, then one for years 3&4, and finally one for years 5&6. Each classroom has one teacher, and maybe on teaching assistant. Most of the rooms have around 40 kids in them.
Needless to say, after looking at the village primary, we sent our two to private prep schools. Simple fact here: the state system isn't fit for purpose. Putting VAT on private education won't make the state system fit for purpose, but will appease the envy brigade. Guess I'll just have to work a bit harder for the next few years.
Article in The TImes this weekend
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-schools...
Says 23 % of parents are taking their kids out of private education if VAT comes in. If that is really the case a lot of private school will shut, most would be losing money with that kind of attrition. Personally think that number is high.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-schools...
Says 23 % of parents are taking their kids out of private education if VAT comes in. If that is really the case a lot of private school will shut, most would be losing money with that kind of attrition. Personally think that number is high.
Cheib said:
Article in The TImes this weekend
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-schools...
Says 23 % of parents are taking their kids out of private education if VAT comes in. If that is really the case a lot of private school will shut, most would be losing money with that kind of attrition. Personally think that number is high.
I’m not that sure it is that high but the bigger worry would be new starter numbers will drop off massively. The wife’s a primary teacher at the local grammar, they usually have 2 classes per year group, for September they’re struggling to fill one class for reception. Still early but it’s normally oversubscribed. New starter numbers will drop over the next few years.https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-schools...
Says 23 % of parents are taking their kids out of private education if VAT comes in. If that is really the case a lot of private school will shut, most would be losing money with that kind of attrition. Personally think that number is high.
Cheib said:
Article in The TImes this weekend
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-schools...
Says 23 % of parents are taking their kids out of private education if VAT comes in. If that is really the case a lot of private school will shut, most would be losing money with that kind of attrition. Personally think that number is high.
I do wonder how many will stick to the state system for primary education and use the money saved to make up the difference to pay for secondary and sixth form. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-schools...
Says 23 % of parents are taking their kids out of private education if VAT comes in. If that is really the case a lot of private school will shut, most would be losing money with that kind of attrition. Personally think that number is high.
It’s easier to find a decent primary with fewer disruptive children than it is to find a decent secondary - certainly around us anyway.
Our plan was always to do state primary and private secondary but the VAT is going to make it a very tight call.
Tom8 said:
Not just state school, indy schools are also having problems and parents aren't being super helpful necessarily, taking the "I am paying for you to sort this out" attitude.RammyMP said:
Cheib said:
Article in The TImes this weekend
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-schools...
Says 23 % of parents are taking their kids out of private education if VAT comes in. If that is really the case a lot of private school will shut, most would be losing money with that kind of attrition. Personally think that number is high.
I’m not that sure it is that high but the bigger worry would be new starter numbers will drop off massively. The wife’s a primary teacher at the local grammar, they usually have 2 classes per year group, for September they’re struggling to fill one class for reception. Still early but it’s normally oversubscribed. New starter numbers will drop over the next few years.https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-schools...
Says 23 % of parents are taking their kids out of private education if VAT comes in. If that is really the case a lot of private school will shut, most would be losing money with that kind of attrition. Personally think that number is high.
My son is at the end of his second year at his school. Once the new school fees come in post VAT his school fees will have gone up by 30% in three years as there was a big rise last year as a lot of school did. 30% is a fair chunk of change !
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