Average house price now 8.7 times average income

[kingston12]

Nomme de Plum said:

Of course they are.

Sorry but you are ill informed. Admittedly the last one started was 2016 finished late 18 and made a few hundred K but my 30 something mate is still doing it and making excellent profit every 2 to 3 years. The one I'm in now will get a £100K investment which will make £100K on top. I'm now nearly 70.

Yes, I think I'm probably misinterpreting the term semi-derelict here.

The houses I'm talking about just need new kitchen, bathrooms, skim and decorate. They don't look like they've been touched since the 70's in some cases, but don't really need anything structural.

The thing that has changed a lot is the willingness/ability for people to do that type of work themselves, and that makes a huge difference now that trades rates have sky rocketed.

[andburg]

The only way you’re going to get younger people into starter houses these days is to buy and refit whole streets at a time. From speaking to a fair few they’d be willing to put in the work but then they’d struggle to sell and move up because the houses and area around them would stop any real value being added.

[Nomme de Plum]

kingston12 said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Of course they are.

Sorry but you are ill informed. Admittedly the last one started was 2016 finished late 18 and made a few hundred K but my 30 something mate is still doing it and making excellent profit every 2 to 3 years. The one I'm in now will get a £100K investment which will make £100K on top. I'm now nearly 70.

Yes, I think I'm probably misinterpreting the term semi-derelict here.

The houses I'm talking about just need new kitchen, bathrooms, skim and decorate. They don't look like they've been touched since the 70's in some cases, but don't really need anything structural.

The thing that has changed a lot is the willingness/ability for people to do that type of work themselves, and that makes a huge difference now that trades rates have sky rocketed.

Yes that's not semi derelict by any means. I mean damp, failed roof maybe replacing timber flooring adding central heating, complete rewire and maybe adding a bathroom on the first floor.

Yours is a good place to start though, especially if you can knock though non structural walls to make open plan. It just needs an attention to detail and many hours input. If you can get a couple of good trades on board that is bonus but never employ a builder unless you know them well.

[okgo]

kingston12 said:

Yes, I think I'm probably misinterpreting the term semi-derelict here.

The houses I'm talking about just need new kitchen, bathrooms, skim and decorate. They don't look like they've been touched since the 70's in some cases, but don't really need anything structural.

The thing that has changed a lot is the willingness/ability for people to do that type of work themselves, and that makes a huge difference now that trades rates have sky rocketed.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146218649

These are £1.8-1.9m done. Hardly seems worth it does it

[havoc]

I'd politely suggest that building regs are now a lot stricter than they used to be.

Changing the wiring - better get a qualified electrician to check everything you've done and sign it off.
New boiler / fire / etc - same principle.
Any genuine building work (extension / rebuild) - whole host of headaches with building control.

I'd also suggest that building materials prices have gone up almost in line with house price inflation.


...so whilst a killing COULD be made in the past, I'd venture that right now the opportunities are far more limited. Plus if you've a family they'd have to be VERY tolerant to being uprooted every 4-5 years to then spend another 12 months in a caravan or the st-hole of a fixer-upper while it was rebuilt around them.

I wonder what the hourly rate now would be on the net profit if you were to try that today? Would it still be a killing, or only a decent return on your efforts?

[Ken_Code]

I have sympathy for younger people in the regions who are struggling, but less for those in or around London.

I moved 300 miles for work, as there were virtually no professional careers available where I grew up, and many of my friends did the same.

Those jobs do now exist back there, and you can get a nice three-bedroom semi in a pleasant commuter town for under £200,000.

If your job doesn’t get you the house you dream of inside the M25 then move.

[Mr Penguin]

kingston12 said:

Quite. That is why people might be irritated at the suggestion that Netflix subscriptions and too many avocados is what is stopping them buying houses. I'm sure that there are some people who spend a fortune on things like that, but most of them probably don't have much more than £100 to cut out.

Netflix and avocados and cappuccinos are not much on their own but they can quickly add up. As the saying goes, look after the pennies.

Most people can cut out £100 a month quite easily IMO.

One takeaway/meal out for two every week - £100
Getting the bus to work rather than cycling or walking - £4/day x 5 days x 4 weeks in a month = £80
A cappuccino every day on your way into the office - £3/day x 5 days x 4 weeks in a month = £60
Tesco meal deal every day - £4/day x 5 days x 4 weeks in a month = £80
Netflix / spotify / YT premium - £10 each per person
Beer in a pub - £4 each x 5 pints a week x 4 weeks in a month - £80
Going from branded food in the supermarket to non-branded - no idea, but can save quite a bit
Turning the heating down one degree - £80-£145 a year or £8-£12 a month
Plus most people can move to a cheaper flat if they really needed to - the flat I lived in before I bought was £150 more than the very cheapest

[Nomme de Plum]

havoc said:

I'd politely suggest that building regs are now a lot stricter than they used to be.

Changing the wiring - better get a qualified electrician to check everything you've done and sign it off.
New boiler / fire / etc - same principle.
Any genuine building work (extension / rebuild) - whole host of headaches with building control.

I'd also suggest that building materials prices have gone up almost in line with house price inflation.


...so whilst a killing COULD be made in the past, I'd venture that right now the opportunities are far more limited. Plus if you've a family they'd have to be VERY tolerant to being uprooted every 4-5 years to then spend another 12 months in a caravan or the st-hole of a fixer-upper while it was rebuilt around them.

I wonder what the hourly rate now would be on the net profit if you were to try that today? Would it still be a killing, or only a decent return on your efforts?

it is not about a killing. It is ability to make a tax free profit.

We've needed to get a sparky and Corgi plumber sign off for years. This is not new.

All i hear is excuses. Some moves make little profit and others a lot. What certainty there is your attitude will make no profit at all.

As to the family if you are all as equally unambitious then live as you are and stop complaining. We've lived in old holiday caravans on site to a point where one of the boys could not fit in his bed. He has gone on to do his own stuff as have the rest of the family.

We could have easily stopped our jobs at the age of 50 but enjoyed our careers. We both carried on till late 50s. I miss the buzz of working in London but the coast is great.

[Nomme de Plum]

okgo said:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146218649

These are £1.8-1.9m done. Hardly seems worth it does it

How much do you make posting here?

I'm speculating you will find excuse after excuse. Maybe your family have a bit more get up and go. Mine are less tolerant of a negative attitude.

[borcy]

Nomme de Plum said:

Come back when you have arisen 0500 and in bed midnight or after every day for many decades to build the future for your family and yourself.

You got 4 hours sleep everyday for several decades?

[havoc]

Nomme de Plum said:

We've lived in old holiday caravans on site to a point where one of the boys could not fit in his bed. He has gone on to do his own stuff as have the rest of the family.

I'm not surprised. Sounds like he had a wonderful childhood!

[Nomme de Plum]

borcy said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Come back when you have arisen 0500 and in bed midnight or after every day for many decades to build the future for your family and yourself.

You got 4 hours sleep everyday for several decades?

That is 5 hours and yes from 20s until 60 ish. During the week 5 hours and on weekend 6 hours . We only have one shot at this life.

I'm nearly 70 and fit as a fiddle. Don't get ill didn't get covid never get flu or colds. I keep reasonably fit. Don't ski anymore as i reckon a broken leg would not be good but do loads of sailing.

In winter I now go to bed at midnight and up at 0700 in summer up at 0600 most days.

[Mr Penguin]

Out of curiosity, what situation are the people saying it cannot be done currently in?

[Nomme de Plum]

havoc said:

Nomme de Plum said:

We've lived in old holiday caravans on site to a point where one of the boys could not fit in his bed. He has gone on to do his own stuff as have the rest of the family.

I'm not surprised. Sounds like he had a wonderful childhood!

He did. Absolutely loved it.

Was a very talented hockey player and when the house was finished never quite sure how many mates would sleep over. Sometimes counted the shoes in the morning. Sometimes caught out with 2 or 3 of very pretty girls in pants and T shirt wandering around in the morning.

We don't live our life to regret a minute.

[borcy]

Nomme de Plum said:

That is 5 hours and yes from 20s until 60 ish. During the week 5 hours and on weekend 6 hours . We only have one shot at this life.

I'm nearly 70 and fit as a fiddle. Don't get ill didn't get covid never get flu or colds. I keep reasonably fit. Don't ski anymore as i reckon a broken leg would not be good but do loads of sailing.

In winter I now go to bed at midnight and up at 0700 in summer up at 0600 most days.

Fair enough

I couldn't do that, I'd be shattered. I need more sleep than that to function let alone refurbing houses day in day out.

[Nomme de Plum]

borcy said:

Nomme de Plum said:

That is 5 hours and yes from 20s until 60 ish. During the week 5 hours and on weekend 6 hours . We only have one shot at this life.

I'm nearly 70 and fit as a fiddle. Don't get ill didn't get covid never get flu or colds. I keep reasonably fit. Don't ski anymore as i reckon a broken leg would not be good but do loads of sailing.

In winter I now go to bed at midnight and up at 0700 in summer up at 0600 most days.

Fair enough

I couldn't do that, I'd be shattered. I need more sleep than that to function let alone refurbing houses day in day out.

I know. I appreciate I'm very lucky. I rarely feel tired.

Apparently 7 or 8 hours is good. It just has never worked for me although I have slowed down a lot.

[borcy]

Nomme de Plum said:

borcy said:

Nomme de Plum said:

That is 5 hours and yes from 20s until 60 ish. During the week 5 hours and on weekend 6 hours . We only have one shot at this life.

I'm nearly 70 and fit as a fiddle. Don't get ill didn't get covid never get flu or colds. I keep reasonably fit. Don't ski anymore as i reckon a broken leg would not be good but do loads of sailing.

In winter I now go to bed at midnight and up at 0700 in summer up at 0600 most days.

Fair enough

I couldn't do that, I'd be shattered. I need more sleep than that to function let alone refurbing houses day in day out.

I know. I appreciate I'm very lucky. I rarely feel tired.

Apparently 7 or 8 hours is good. It just has never worked for me although I have slowed down a lot.

I can remember doing 12 on 12 off 7 days for months on one job, I just dropped one day. I remember feeling dizzy and then I woke up on the floor, probably out for 30 mins no memory of what happened. Another time (same job) I fell asleep stood up. One lad working at height took a header from lack of sleep, A+E, head injury liquid coming out of his ear. Not good.

Edited by borcy on Wednesday 27th March 20:46

[kingston12]

okgo said:

kingston12 said:

Yes, I think I'm probably misinterpreting the term semi-derelict here.

The houses I'm talking about just need new kitchen, bathrooms, skim and decorate. They don't look like they've been touched since the 70's in some cases, but don't really need anything structural.

The thing that has changed a lot is the willingness/ability for people to do that type of work themselves, and that makes a huge difference now that trades rates have sky rocketed.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146218649

These are £1.8-1.9m done. Hardly seems worth it does it

It wouldn’t be for me as I’’d have to get trades in to do all but the most basic of tasks, and that would cost far too much to make a return.

It could work if someone was in a position to do the vast majority of the work themselves, and presumably live in it as building site if fitting that in around a full time job.

[kingston12]

Mr Penguin said:

Out of curiosity, what situation are the people saying it cannot be done currently in?

I don’t think anyone is saying it can’t be done, just that it’s financially harder now.

In my case, I’m ‘Gen X’ and bought a place years ago, but still recognise that it’s harder for people in that position now than it was when I did it.

I fully respect the viewpoint and experience of Nomme de Plum, but I don’t think that constantly moving into houses and doing that level of work was the norm then or now.

[okgo]

Nomme de Plum said:

How much do you make posting here?

I'm speculating you will find excuse after excuse. Maybe your family have a bit more get up and go. Mine are less tolerant of a negative attitude.

Make posting what? You’ve lost me there.

I’m suggesting with that post that these fabled doer uppers you’ve all made so much cash doing aren’t quite so straight forward anymore. Many reasons for that up the page.