Average house price now 8.7 times average income

[trumpton7291]

Lots of hand wringing on this thread and fearing for the children, panic! House prices especially in the South East nobody average can afford to buy. It’s a massive problem.

But is it really? Looking back at the stats for the last 100+ years show that in 1918 for example most people rented. The higher classes owned, but that wasn’t everybody. Yes ownership may confer certain advantages, but there are also advantages and a certain flexibility to renting. You can invest freely in many asset classes and take the same tax advantages in a SIPP for example. Bottom line, ownership is not the only option, why live in penury just to afford a house?

[CLK-GTR]

x5tuu said:

Not so, a number of those properties are simple 2 bedroom terraced cottages, starter homes - very serviceable, decent areas with normal working / working class families.

The problem is they aren’t detached with driveways, gardens, 4+ bedrooms.

Many FTBs don’t want starter homes - as said over and over, that’s the major issue here.

You're not getting this... Sunderland is not the average of the North East, just like the North East is not the average of the UK. Both house prices and wages are going to be lower. You're still looking at similar multiples wherever in the country you go.

[BoRED S2upid]

trumpton7291 said:

Lots of hand wringing on this thread and fearing for the children, panic! House prices especially in the South East nobody average can afford to buy. It’s a massive problem.

But is it really? Looking back at the stats for the last 100+ years show that in 1918 for example most people rented. The higher classes owned, but that wasn’t everybody. Yes ownership may confer certain advantages, but there are also advantages and a certain flexibility to renting. You can invest freely in many asset classes and take the same tax advantages in a SIPP for example. Bottom line, ownership is not the only option, why live in penury just to afford a house?

Exactly. Look at Europe a lot more rent than own. For some reason in this country owning your own home is a big thing. And when many can’t afford it it’s a big issue. If you can’t buy rent there are big advantages to renting no 5% mortgages for a start!

[Evanivitch]

BoRED S2upid said:

Exactly. Look at Europe a lot more rent than own. For some reason in this country owning your own home is a big thing. And when many can’t afford it it’s a big issue. If you can’t buy rent there are big advantages to renting no 5% mortgages for a start!

And many European countries have rent caps and far stronger tenant protection, including permanent protection.

Therefore the desire to control your future (and that of your family life) isn't dependent on home ownership.

[ATG]

BoRED S2upid said:

trumpton7291 said:

Lots of hand wringing on this thread and fearing for the children, panic! House prices especially in the South East nobody average can afford to buy. It’s a massive problem.

But is it really? Looking back at the stats for the last 100+ years show that in 1918 for example most people rented. The higher classes owned, but that wasn’t everybody. Yes ownership may confer certain advantages, but there are also advantages and a certain flexibility to renting. You can invest freely in many asset classes and take the same tax advantages in a SIPP for example. Bottom line, ownership is not the only option, why live in penury just to afford a house?

Exactly. Look at Europe a lot more rent than own. For some reason in this country owning your own home is a big thing. And when many can’t afford it it’s a big issue. If you can’t buy rent there are big advantages to renting no 5% mortgages for a start!

Why do you think renting is inherently cheaper than owning? If the market is working efficiently renting is ALWAYS more expensive than owning the same property, otherwise there isn't a margin available for the landlord.

[okgo]

BoRED S2upid said:

Exactly. Look at Europe a lot more rent than own. For some reason in this country owning your own home is a big thing. And when many can’t afford it it’s a big issue. If you can’t buy rent there are big advantages to renting no 5% mortgages for a start!

That’s actually an old wives tale really. We aren’t that different to most of developed Europe in ownership stakes.

There’s very little advantage to renting long term.

[snoopy25]

valiant said:

snoopy25 said:

I live in London and currently earn a smidge over £32k. I'm going for a job that is currently a smidge over £38k.

I hold £20k in savings that I have accumulated over the last few years through overtime and penny pinching.

I still don't see how me and my partner will be able to own our own place. Partner doesn't work through ill health.

Shows how things have changed.

You earn an average salary just like I did when I bought my first property in London. Difference is my first house was £57k in 1996 and while it was a push, was affordable. That same house was sold last year for £500k which is simply unaffordable for anyone on an average wage.

This wasn’t some semi-detached in a leafy suburb but a two bedroom terrace in a ‘challenging’ neighbourhood.

I’m not sure what the answer is but the status quo cannot carry on indefinitely. All those that simply say to buy less Starbucks or cancel Netflix haven’t a clue what it’s like for those struggling to get on the ladder.

Good luck, mate.

Thank you, we are trying our best, but I fear the tide is well against us. We are lucky we have a roof over our heads and I know people are a lot worse of than us, but there will come a point where by it will be pointless saving for a deposit and we will be forever trapped renting for life, which is not something I look forward to.

[monkfish1]

BoRED S2upid said:

Exactly. Look at Europe a lot more rent than own. For some reason in this country owning your own home is a big thing. And when many can’t afford it it’s a big issue. If you can’t buy rent there are big advantages to renting no 5% mortgages for a start!

One of the main drivers is so you can afford to live in retirement.

With a piss poor state pension, and a very much screwed private pension system (thanks Gordon) renting in retirement would be hard to fund.

[borcy]

x5tuu said:

CLK-GTR said:

That's not an average though is it. Just like not everybody earns the average wage.

There are always cheaper areas but they're cheaper for a reason, either they're rough as dogs or the jobs nearby don't pay well, or both.

Not so, a number of those properties are simple 2 bedroom terraced cottages, starter homes - very serviceable, decent areas with normal working / working class families.

The problem is they aren’t detached with driveways, gardens, 4+ bedrooms.

Many FTBs don’t want starter homes - as said over and over, that’s the major issue here.

FTB don't want starter homes, all of them, some, some you know, what do you base that on?

[VanDriver99]

So I ask again ...what does the South East have that Sunderland doesn't??


Surely a lower priced base where you are not financially looking over your shoulder all the time is everyones goal??There are well paid jobs in Sunderland too.


Im not sure if you consider the A20 (Sidcup) area as the South East but there are a number set to lose their income there with a scandal over Speeding Offences.60,000(and counting) Notices of Intended Prosecution delivered in the space of 2 months.One guy has 11.

[borcy]

VanDriver99 said:

So I ask again ...what does the South East have that Sunderland doesn't??


Surely a lower priced base where you are not financially looking over your shoulder all the time is everyones goal??There are well paid jobs in Sunderland too.


Im not sure if you consider the A20 (Sidcup) area as the South East but there are a number set to lose their income there with a scandal over Speeding Offences.60,000(and counting) Notices of Intended Prosecution delivered in the space of 2 months.One guy has 11.

Opportunity to find those big jobs, far more in London. How we start to reverse that is another matter.

[Evanivitch]

VanDriver99 said:

So I ask again ...what does the South East have that Sunderland doesn't??


Surely a lower priced base where you are not financially looking over your shoulder all the time is everyones goal??There are well paid jobs in Sunderland too.

Median Salary London £44,000
Median Salary North East £31,200

[Evanivitch]

VanDriver99 said:

So I ask again ...what does the South East have that Sunderland doesn't??


Surely a lower priced base where you are not financially looking over your shoulder all the time is everyones goal??There are well paid jobs in Sunderland too.

Median Salary London £44,000
Median Salary North East £31,200

[VanDriver99]

Pensioners Income is the same wherever you are ??

[Burrow01]

Evanivitch said:

VanDriver99 said:

So I ask again ...what does the South East have that Sunderland doesn't??


Surely a lower priced base where you are not financially looking over your shoulder all the time is everyones goal??There are well paid jobs in Sunderland too.

Median Salary London £44,000
Median Salary North East £31,200

Seems reasonable, the extra £13,000 you get in London is all eaten up by the additional costs of living in the South East

[Pit Pony]

Slow.Patrol said:

They wait for their Boomer Grandparents to shuffle off.

We don't have kids. All nieces and nephews have managed to get on the housing ladder, so great nieces and nephews might get lucky. Unless we end up in a care home.

To b fair, it is still possible to buy a house as long as you are not in the south east.

ETA. Also, not everyone will be a home owner. My sister is 68 and never owned her own home being a single parent.

Edited by Slow.Patrol on Friday 15th March 19:09

If my parents died tomorrow, which is possible, (but given how they looked yesterday, they seem intent on going on for a good while), I would have enough money to retire Early.

Would I share it with my kids? Maybe, but I'd have to keep working.

Part of me thinks, "How much did you save, going out to restaurants twice a week ?"

[VanDriver99]

Pit Pony said:

If my parents died tomorrow, which is possible, (but given how they looked yesterday, they seem intent on going on for a good while), I would have enough money to retire Early.

Would I share it with my kids? Maybe, but I'd have to keep working.

Part of me thinks, "How much did you save, going out to restaurants twice a week ?"

I am a Month off of my State Pension and other Occupational Problems.I still have get up and go.The thought of Double Bubble is deffo winning at the moment !!

[x5tuu]

borcy said:

x5tuu said:

CLK-GTR said:

That's not an average though is it. Just like not everybody earns the average wage.

There are always cheaper areas but they're cheaper for a reason, either they're rough as dogs or the jobs nearby don't pay well, or both.

Not so, a number of those properties are simple 2 bedroom terraced cottages, starter homes - very serviceable, decent areas with normal working / working class families.

The problem is they aren’t detached with driveways, gardens, 4+ bedrooms.

Many FTBs don’t want starter homes - as said over and over, that’s the major issue here.

FTB don't want starter homes, all of them, some, some you know, what do you base that on?

My 21yrs direct experience in property management and lettings across the NE. The market has massively shifted in what demographs of people want what type of property.

20yrs ago there was a lot more willingness to start with something small and move up the ladder, now there is none of that, its straight in to a brand new, 4/5/6bd detatched, double/triple driveway, etc.

Attend any property auction or speak to any sales or letting agent here and youll see the same rhetoric over and over again.

FTBs arent the ones buying or letting at the lower end of the market like you would expect to see.

[x5tuu]

VanDriver99 said:

Pensioners Income is the same wherever you are ??

• state

[borcy]

x5tuu said:

borcy said:

x5tuu said:

CLK-GTR said:

That's not an average though is it. Just like not everybody earns the average wage.

There are always cheaper areas but they're cheaper for a reason, either they're rough as dogs or the jobs nearby don't pay well, or both.

Not so, a number of those properties are simple 2 bedroom terraced cottages, starter homes - very serviceable, decent areas with normal working / working class families.

The problem is they aren’t detached with driveways, gardens, 4+ bedrooms.

Many FTBs don’t want starter homes - as said over and over, that’s the major issue here.

FTB don't want starter homes, all of them, some, some you know, what do you base that on?

My 21yrs direct experience in property management and lettings across the NE. The market has massively shifted in what demographs of people want what type of property.

20yrs ago there was a lot more willingness to start with something small and move up the ladder, now there is none of that, its straight in to a brand new, 4/5/6bd detatched, double/triple driveway, etc.

Attend any property auction or speak to any sales or letting agent here and youll see the same rhetoric over and over again.

FTBs arent the ones buying or letting at the lower end of the market like you would expect to see.

As they say want doesn't get, so how far away are they from buying these houses? Are they on normal wages. I find it hard to believe people are looking at properties that are orders of magnitude away from what what they can afford? Perhaps there are lots of people wasting their time.

People on say 25k are looking at 500k houses that sort of thing?

Edited by borcy on Sunday 17th March 09:30