Ambulance... Ambiwlans - Has dumbing down gone too far?
Discussion
When i was working in South Wales - for Barry from Barry - he told a story about learning Welsh as a child. The family were on holiday in North Wales and in a shop catering for tourists. They were speaking English and the staff were speaking Welsh. He heard one of them say something unkind about them and particularly unkind about his mother and before he could stop himself he let her have it loudly in Welsh. The lady was aghast she had been found out and, you'd hope, was more circumspect in future.
DickyC said:
When i was working in South Wales - for Barry from Barry - he told a story about learning Welsh as a child. The family were on holiday in North Wales and in a shop catering for tourists. They were speaking English and the staff were speaking Welsh. He heard one of them say something unkind about them and particularly unkind about his mother and before he could stop himself he let her have it loudly in Welsh. The lady was aghast she had been found out and, you'd hope, was more circumspect in future.
I used to do this all the time in Paris - I used to be fluent and my tourist-ness was obvious and happily let people dig themselves into a hole and then do the same...warch said:
Rh14n said:
ks on this. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone in Newport who speaks Welsh, let alone in the wider south-east Wales region. It's one of those irritating hokey feel good tales that periodically do the rounds on social meeja.Less so now, but a few decades ago Newport and Cardiff were such massive ports still that you'd hear a multitude of accents and languages, sadly the most accurate part of the story is the likelihood of a d
head on a bus spouting off about who should speak what and why. Quite a few Welsh people have a smattering of Welsh, especially young people, as it is used exclusively in many schools, but very few are truly fluent, and it is very rare to hear people speaking Welsh or who have Welsh as their first language anywhere outside of West Wales or the North-west of the country.
In the office in Barry there was one ardent Welsh speaker. Barry himself, despite learning Welsh as a child, had lost most if it after years of speaking just English. The guvnor was Welsh and was exasperated by nationistic Welshness. He couldn't understand why anyone fluent in English would seek to isolate themselves in business by insisting on speaking an unusual language. One of his pet hates was dual language road signs. The sign for the town had Barry in English above Barrie in Welsh.
My eldest lad went to university in Wales and met and married a Valleys girl. They live in Wales and I have three Welsh grandsons. The eldest told his dad, "Ah, you wouldn't understand. You're English." We'll see how that pans out. He's six.
My eldest lad went to university in Wales and met and married a Valleys girl. They live in Wales and I have three Welsh grandsons. The eldest told his dad, "Ah, you wouldn't understand. You're English." We'll see how that pans out. He's six.
warch said:
Quite a few Welsh people have a smattering of Welsh, especially young people, as it is used exclusively in many schools, but very few are truly fluent, and it is very rare to hear people speaking Welsh or who have Welsh as their first language anywhere outside of West Wales or the North-west of the country.
Id say that was accurate 20 years ago. however, as an exile myself, when we occasionally do go back I'm surprised at how widespread the use of the language has gotten since I left 30 years ago. You suggest 'West Wales', well, I'd say as far east as Cardiff and perhaps further towards Newport and right across both central an northern wales, its a lot more prevalent than it was. Walk around Cardiff with your ears open and you hear people speaking welsh. Go up the valleys and you hear Welsh.there are obviously areas that are predominantly English speaking as well. but a lot smaller than it was in the 1980's. I'm from the Neah Valley and thirty years ago only the activists spoke welsh. Now its far more 50/50
TTmonkey said:
warch said:
Quite a few Welsh people have a smattering of Welsh, especially young people, as it is used exclusively in many schools, but very few are truly fluent, and it is very rare to hear people speaking Welsh or who have Welsh as their first language anywhere outside of West Wales or the North-west of the country.
Id say that was accurate 20 years ago. however, as an exile myself, when we occasionally do go back I'm surprised at how widespread the use of the language has gotten since I left 30 years ago. You suggest 'West Wales', well, I'd say as far east as Cardiff and perhaps further towards Newport and right across both central an northern wales, its a lot more prevalent than it was. Walk around Cardiff with your ears open and you hear people speaking welsh. Go up the valleys and you hear Welsh.there are obviously areas that are predominantly English speaking as well. but a lot smaller than it was in the 1980's. I'm from the Neah Valley and thirty years ago only the activists spoke welsh. Now its far more 50/50
In a recent revision of our working arrangements all companies in my employment sector now have to submit reports with a summary written in Welsh. This is a complete ballache for us, because despite being a Welsh company based in mid Wales we only have a single Welsh speaker and she isn't confident enough to transcribe the summaries into Welsh. I've also seen the requirement for Welsh speaking job applicants being used as a form of discrimination against non Welsh speaking people which I think is wrong.
warch said:
TTmonkey said:
warch said:
Quite a few Welsh people have a smattering of Welsh, especially young people, as it is used exclusively in many schools, but very few are truly fluent, and it is very rare to hear people speaking Welsh or who have Welsh as their first language anywhere outside of West Wales or the North-west of the country.
Id say that was accurate 20 years ago. however, as an exile myself, when we occasionally do go back I'm surprised at how widespread the use of the language has gotten since I left 30 years ago. You suggest 'West Wales', well, I'd say as far east as Cardiff and perhaps further towards Newport and right across both central an northern wales, its a lot more prevalent than it was. Walk around Cardiff with your ears open and you hear people speaking welsh. Go up the valleys and you hear Welsh.there are obviously areas that are predominantly English speaking as well. but a lot smaller than it was in the 1980's. I'm from the Neah Valley and thirty years ago only the activists spoke welsh. Now its far more 50/50
In a recent revision of our working arrangements all companies in my employment sector now have to submit reports with a summary written in Welsh. This is a complete ballache for us, because despite being a Welsh company based in mid Wales we only have a single Welsh speaker and she isn't confident enough to transcribe the summaries into Welsh. I've also seen the requirement for Welsh speaking job applicants being used as a form of discrimination against non Welsh speaking people which I think is wrong.
TTmonkey said:
warch said:
Quite a few Welsh people have a smattering of Welsh, especially young people, as it is used exclusively in many schools, but very few are truly fluent, and it is very rare to hear people speaking Welsh or who have Welsh as their first language anywhere outside of West Wales or the North-west of the country.
Id say that was accurate 20 years ago. however, as an exile myself, when we occasionally do go back I'm surprised at how widespread the use of the language has gotten since I left 30 years ago. You suggest 'West Wales', well, I'd say as far east as Cardiff and perhaps further towards Newport and right across both central an northern wales, its a lot more prevalent than it was. Walk around Cardiff with your ears open and you hear people speaking welsh. Go up the valleys and you hear Welsh.there are obviously areas that are predominantly English speaking as well. but a lot smaller than it was in the 1980's. I'm from the Neah Valley and thirty years ago only the activists spoke welsh. Now its far more 50/50
OK, so that's a very specific target demographic, and you'd expect it to be higher than average amongst the rural/farming community than the population at large - but even so... Very surprised.
I'm really not going to get involved in any big discussion on the Welsh language on here (and yes, I accept that the clip I attached earlier may well not be true) but I really hate having to defend our rights to use our own mother tongue in our own country. The Welsh language is of massive importance to us. Not only is it perfectly natural for us to speak it but with it comes a huge part of our culture, history and identity. Many of you note that a relatively small number of us still speak it but really, is it so difficult to understand that's one of the reasons why we are trying to preserve it? We really don't speak Welsh just to inconvenience the English you know! I know I'm on a hiding to nothing on this forum so will say no more.
Rh14n said:
I'm really not going to get involved in any big discussion on the Welsh language on here (and yes, I accept that the clip I attached earlier may well not be true) but I really hate having to defend our rights to use our own mother tongue in our own country. The Welsh language is of massive importance to us. Not only is it perfectly natural for us to speak it but with it comes a huge part of our culture, history and identity. Many of you note that a relatively small number of us still speak it but really, is it so difficult to understand that's one of the reasons why we are trying to preserve it? We really don't speak Welsh just to inconvenience the English you know! I know I'm on a hiding to nothing on this forum so will say no more.
I am as Welsh as you, and it is not important to me. This is what infuriates so many Welsh people, that the Welsh language lobby act as though they are the only Welsh people, and that there's is the only voice that matters. You represent 10% of the population but act like the other 90% are inferior/less Welsh than you to you. The Welsh language is not the be all and end all of being Welsh anymore than Gaelic is the be all and end of being Irish or Scottish. Edited by Timmy45 on Wednesday 25th July 14:33
Rh14n said:
I'm really not going to get involved in any big discussion on the Welsh language on here (and yes, I accept that the clip I attached earlier may well not be true) but I really hate having to defend our rights to use our own mother tongue in our own country. The Welsh language is of massive importance to us. Not only is it perfectly natural for us to speak it but with it comes a huge part of our culture, history and identity. Many of you note that a relatively small number of us still speak it but really, is it so difficult to understand that's one of the reasons why we are trying to preserve it? We really don't speak Welsh just to inconvenience the English you know! I know I'm on a hiding to nothing on this forum so will say no more.
For avoidance of doubt, if you're referencing my comment... I didn't say it was a bad surprise - it wasn't, it was a pleasant one.
Rh14n said:
I'm really not going to get involved in any big discussion on the Welsh language on here (and yes, I accept that the clip I attached earlier may well not be true) but I really hate having to defend our rights to use our own mother tongue in our own country. The Welsh language is of massive importance to us. Not only is it perfectly natural for us to speak it but with it comes a huge part of our culture, history and identity. Many of you note that a relatively small number of us still speak it but really, is it so difficult to understand that's one of the reasons why we are trying to preserve it? We really don't speak Welsh just to inconvenience the English you know! I know I'm on a hiding to nothing on this forum so will say no more.
Incidentally there are (or were) Welsh speaking areas in England and I believe Scotland as well, which isn't surprising really as it represents a survival of the old language we spoke before the arrival of the Saxons. A few words from 'Welsh' still survive in English usage, such as Kent or Avon, remarkable after 1500 years or so. Personally I have no problem whatsoever with people speaking Welsh wherever they're from and I'm constantly learning new words and phrases in the language. I don't anyone on here is saying anything derogatory about the language. My only point is that outside of the predominantly Welsh speaking areas of Wales it's an absolute sod trying to get things translated into Welsh, simply because people don't speak the language.
Timmy45 said:
This is what infuriates so many Welsh people, that the Welsh language lobby act as though they are the only Welsh people, and that there's is the only voice that matters.
My friend at work often claims he is made to feel like he is not properly Welsh whenever he goes to North-west Wales. He's from Wrexham.Incidentally I am English and have never directly received any anti English abuse or made to feel in any way unwelcome in over 20 years living or working in the country.
warch said:
Incidentally there are (or were) Welsh speaking areas in England and I believe Scotland as well, which isn't surprising really as it represents a survival of the old language we spoke before the arrival of the Saxons. A few words from 'Welsh' still survive in English usage, such as Kent or Avon, remarkable after 1500 years or so.
I had no idea that they had been making camshafts and tyres for that length of time...
warch said:
Timmy45 said:
This is what infuriates so many Welsh people, that the Welsh language lobby act as though they are the only Welsh people, and that there's is the only voice that matters.
My friend at work often claims he is made to feel like he is not properly Welsh whenever he goes to North-west Wales. He's from Wrexham.Incidentally I am English and have never directly received any anti English abuse or made to feel in any way unwelcome in over 20 years living or working in the country.
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff