Discussion
Wacky Racer said:
Seriously, get yourself to the docs ASAP.
There's no shame in depression, it's an illness just like any other.
There are no wonder cures, any medication might take 3-4 weeks to kick in, but honestly, in most cases they do help and are NOT addictive.
Your wife sounds like a star........do it for her.
You'll be fine and in a year or so all this will be a distant memory, life's a marathon, not a sprint. Take each day as it comes.
Tks will see how this week goes and book into doctors . There's no shame in depression, it's an illness just like any other.
There are no wonder cures, any medication might take 3-4 weeks to kick in, but honestly, in most cases they do help and are NOT addictive.
Your wife sounds like a star........do it for her.
You'll be fine and in a year or so all this will be a distant memory, life's a marathon, not a sprint. Take each day as it comes.
At the weekend I noticed a memorial bench and the top line read ' A family finally reunited again'.
I looked closer at it and it was in memory of a mother and her children two of which she had outlived , one was 60 and the other 55.
My son turned to me and said 'dad you're not far off that life's too short , stop worrying let's just think of that bench when we get down '
He had a point . Ok I'm a litte way off 55 but nonetheless he's right so from today I'm thinking "That Bench" when i start to worry and get low .
Will see how it goes
I find this thread to be particularly useful for advice and sharing feelings .
Just shows there is more to PH than people arguing about cars.
Wacky Racer said:
FocusRS3 said:
Funny I stumbled across that video last week .
In terms of help it seems so many are on anti depressants nowadays I'd thought of going to the docs giving them a go too but I've w reluctance to become dependant on pills .
Is wanting to escape all part of depression ?
I'm putting on such a false face at work which I know I can't keep up forever and it's probably evident I hate the job now .
My wife is right that I have everything most would want and to keep thinking positive thoughts or the negative ones will consume me but I just don't find it that simple .
She even had a book called 'The Secret' that she reads regularly and sends me snapshots .
My worrying about supporting and providing for my family is what makes me depressed so I can't see how reading a book on positive thoughts is going to change that but then maybe this is the state I've got myself into .
Seriously, get yourself to the docs ASAP.In terms of help it seems so many are on anti depressants nowadays I'd thought of going to the docs giving them a go too but I've w reluctance to become dependant on pills .
Is wanting to escape all part of depression ?
I'm putting on such a false face at work which I know I can't keep up forever and it's probably evident I hate the job now .
My wife is right that I have everything most would want and to keep thinking positive thoughts or the negative ones will consume me but I just don't find it that simple .
She even had a book called 'The Secret' that she reads regularly and sends me snapshots .
My worrying about supporting and providing for my family is what makes me depressed so I can't see how reading a book on positive thoughts is going to change that but then maybe this is the state I've got myself into .
There's no shame in depression, it's an illness just like any other.
There are no wonder cures, any medication might take 3-4 weeks to kick in, but honestly, in most cases they do help and are NOT addictive.
Your wife sounds like a star........do it for her.
You'll be fine and in a year or so all this will be a distant memory, life's a marathon, not a sprint. Take each day as it comes.
If you break it down to it's bare bones it's easier: You are feeling ill, here is some medication to help you, yet you are saying no. It's like driving around with a flat tyre and not calling in at a garage to get it fixed....
You don't have to become dependent, but even if you did then so what? If your life is better with than without, it's not like a smack habit. Once you're back on the level then it's time to consider if you need further help or just stay as you are for a bit. When the time comes then start to wind down the medication very very gradually.
If you have a favourite time of year (I do - it's Summer and hate I Winter) then choose Spring to make the move, also if the sleeplessness persists then you can take an AD which helps with that too. There is a whole range of stuff out there to help, you are in a position to take advantage of it, even though your negative thoughts (which aren't the real you) are trying to tell you otherwise.
Once you've been through it and out the other side you will be better equipped to deal with it if it happens again too.
227bhp said:
Yes this ^^
If you break it down to it's bare bones it's easier: You are feeling ill, here is some medication to help you, yet you are saying no. It's like driving around with a flat tyre and not calling in at a garage to get it fixed....
You don't have to become dependent, but even if you did then so what? If your life is better with than without, it's not like a smack habit. Once you're back on the level then it's time to consider if you need further help or just stay as you are for a bit. When the time comes then start to wind down the medication very very gradually.
If you have a favourite time of year (I do - it's Summer and hate I Winter) then choose Spring to make the move, also if the sleeplessness persists then you can take an AD which helps with that too. There is a whole range of stuff out there to help, you are in a position to take advantage of it, even though your negative thoughts (which aren't the real you) are trying to tell you otherwise.
Once you've been through it and out the other side you will be better equipped to deal with it if it happens again too.
If you break it down to it's bare bones it's easier: You are feeling ill, here is some medication to help you, yet you are saying no. It's like driving around with a flat tyre and not calling in at a garage to get it fixed....
You don't have to become dependent, but even if you did then so what? If your life is better with than without, it's not like a smack habit. Once you're back on the level then it's time to consider if you need further help or just stay as you are for a bit. When the time comes then start to wind down the medication very very gradually.
If you have a favourite time of year (I do - it's Summer and hate I Winter) then choose Spring to make the move, also if the sleeplessness persists then you can take an AD which helps with that too. There is a whole range of stuff out there to help, you are in a position to take advantage of it, even though your negative thoughts (which aren't the real you) are trying to tell you otherwise.
Once you've been through it and out the other side you will be better equipped to deal with it if it happens again too.
Seriously , this is very good advice indeed . Heed it , things will get better ! 
227bhp said:
Yes this ^^
If you break it down to it's bare bones it's easier: You are feeling ill, here is some medication to help you, yet you are saying no. It's like driving around with a flat tyre and not calling in at a garage to get it fixed....
You don't have to become dependent, but even if you did then so what? If your life is better with than without, it's not like a smack habit. Once you're back on the level then it's time to consider if you need further help or just stay as you are for a bit. When the time comes then start to wind down the medication very very gradually.
If you have a favourite time of year (I do - it's Summer and hate I Winter) then choose Spring to make the move, also if the sleeplessness persists then you can take an AD which helps with that too. There is a whole range of stuff out there to help, you are in a position to take advantage of it, even though your negative thoughts (which aren't the real you) are trying to tell you otherwise.
Once you've been through it and out the other side you will be better equipped to deal with it if it happens again too.
This is possibly the best advice I've read. Been in touch with my councillor today about going back for a few sessions, I've always been afraid of anti depressants when i should have been on them years ago tbh. Reading that has given me the boost i needed. I'm going to then phone the doctors about an appointment to go and sort it out straight away. Thanks a lot for taking the time to write thatIf you break it down to it's bare bones it's easier: You are feeling ill, here is some medication to help you, yet you are saying no. It's like driving around with a flat tyre and not calling in at a garage to get it fixed....
You don't have to become dependent, but even if you did then so what? If your life is better with than without, it's not like a smack habit. Once you're back on the level then it's time to consider if you need further help or just stay as you are for a bit. When the time comes then start to wind down the medication very very gradually.
If you have a favourite time of year (I do - it's Summer and hate I Winter) then choose Spring to make the move, also if the sleeplessness persists then you can take an AD which helps with that too. There is a whole range of stuff out there to help, you are in a position to take advantage of it, even though your negative thoughts (which aren't the real you) are trying to tell you otherwise.
Once you've been through it and out the other side you will be better equipped to deal with it if it happens again too.
Booked next week with doctor .
Still have reservations with AD's but happy to go with it if needs be .
Have decided that if I'm still hating job/coonts I'm working with in Jan next year then I'll quit and reassess .
At least for now this thought process is keeping me going .
No idea if this makes sense with others ?
Still have reservations with AD's but happy to go with it if needs be .
Have decided that if I'm still hating job/coonts I'm working with in Jan next year then I'll quit and reassess .
At least for now this thought process is keeping me going .
No idea if this makes sense with others ?
FocusRS3 said:
Booked next week with doctor .
Still have reservations with AD's but happy to go with it if needs be .
Have decided that if I'm still hating job/coonts I'm working with in Jan next year then I'll quit and reassess .
At least for now this thought process is keeping me going .
No idea if this makes sense with others ?
Obviously the decision to go on antidepressants will be made between you and your dr. From my own situation I decided that I didn't want them. I have no experience of being on them, but I didn't want to run the risk of seeing life through soft focus or everything feeling a bit fluffy, yet, I could be talking bStill have reservations with AD's but happy to go with it if needs be .
Have decided that if I'm still hating job/coonts I'm working with in Jan next year then I'll quit and reassess .
At least for now this thought process is keeping me going .
No idea if this makes sense with others ?
ks. I'd rather see things through a clear head - don't know if that makes sense. What I am experiencing at the moment are massive surges of anger - they really are quite frightening. I can literally flip at the smallest thing - I guess this is quite normal. Maybe this is the new normal from now on. My next therapy visit is in two weeks, and at least that is going quite well.I never have anger moments that's just not me but now i have periods of anxiety coupled with lack of confidence and panic/dread .
I'm constantly looking for a way out or to escape the ste situation but I try to pacify rather than argue but then eventually I'll snap/break.
Basically I'm a lover not a fighter now I'm older and rather than years ago I'd fight every fight now I'd rather just walk away. Maybe that comes with age and maybe that's led to some form of acceptance and therefore depression . Who knows .
I'm constantly looking for a way out or to escape the s
te situation but I try to pacify rather than argue but then eventually I'll snap/break.Basically I'm a lover not a fighter now I'm older and rather than years ago I'd fight every fight now I'd rather just walk away. Maybe that comes with age and maybe that's led to some form of acceptance and therefore depression . Who knows .
FocusRS3 said:
I never have anger moments that's just not me but now i have periods of anxiety coupled with lack of confidence and panic/dread .
I'm constantly looking for a way out or to escape the ste situation but I try to pacify rather than argue but then eventually I'll snap/break.
Basically I'm a lover not a fighter now I'm older and rather than years ago I'd fight every fight now I'd rather just walk away. Maybe that comes with age and maybe that's led to some form of acceptance and therefore depression . Who knows .
Try and identify your triggers.I'm constantly looking for a way out or to escape the s
te situation but I try to pacify rather than argue but then eventually I'll snap/break.Basically I'm a lover not a fighter now I'm older and rather than years ago I'd fight every fight now I'd rather just walk away. Maybe that comes with age and maybe that's led to some form of acceptance and therefore depression . Who knows .
Write down what causes you to feel angry. It will help.
Had my 6th session with therapist today. I feel worse than I have for a long time. I can't explain why. I think her telling me that the path we had been going down maybe was the wrong one hasn't helped. I'm not angry with her. It takes time to figure out the right strategy etc.
Just feel lost.
Oh well. New turbo soon so that'll cheer me up.
xjay1337 said:
Try and identify your triggers.
Write down what causes you to feel angry. It will help.
Had my 6th session with therapist today. I feel worse than I have for a long time. I can't explain why. I think her telling me that the path we had been going down maybe was the wrong one hasn't helped. I'm not angry with her. It takes time to figure out the right strategy etc.
Just feel lost.
Oh well. New turbo soon so that'll cheer me up.
I don't have anger moments just like anyone else will get to a point when I'll bark back but I never get violent . Write down what causes you to feel angry. It will help.
Had my 6th session with therapist today. I feel worse than I have for a long time. I can't explain why. I think her telling me that the path we had been going down maybe was the wrong one hasn't helped. I'm not angry with her. It takes time to figure out the right strategy etc.
Just feel lost.
Oh well. New turbo soon so that'll cheer me up.
Really I've identified that I have no job satisfaction so that I'm hoping I can change going into the new year , fingers crossed .
Captain Smerc said:
227bhp said:
Yes this ^^
If you break it down to it's bare bones it's easier: You are feeling ill, here is some medication to help you, yet you are saying no. It's like driving around with a flat tyre and not calling in at a garage to get it fixed....
You don't have to become dependent, but even if you did then so what? If your life is better with than without, it's not like a smack habit. Once you're back on the level then it's time to consider if you need further help or just stay as you are for a bit. When the time comes then start to wind down the medication very very gradually.
If you have a favourite time of year (I do - it's Summer and hate I Winter) then choose Spring to make the move, also if the sleeplessness persists then you can take an AD which helps with that too. There is a whole range of stuff out there to help, you are in a position to take advantage of it, even though your negative thoughts (which aren't the real you) are trying to tell you otherwise.
Once you've been through it and out the other side you will be better equipped to deal with it if it happens again too.
If you break it down to it's bare bones it's easier: You are feeling ill, here is some medication to help you, yet you are saying no. It's like driving around with a flat tyre and not calling in at a garage to get it fixed....
You don't have to become dependent, but even if you did then so what? If your life is better with than without, it's not like a smack habit. Once you're back on the level then it's time to consider if you need further help or just stay as you are for a bit. When the time comes then start to wind down the medication very very gradually.
If you have a favourite time of year (I do - it's Summer and hate I Winter) then choose Spring to make the move, also if the sleeplessness persists then you can take an AD which helps with that too. There is a whole range of stuff out there to help, you are in a position to take advantage of it, even though your negative thoughts (which aren't the real you) are trying to tell you otherwise.
Once you've been through it and out the other side you will be better equipped to deal with it if it happens again too.
Seriously , this is very good advice indeed . Heed it , things will get better ! If you knew a diabetic who refused to take insulin you'd tell them they were an idiot, right?
xjay1337 said:
Try and identify your triggers.
Write down what causes you to feel angry. It will help.
This is good advice. When I'm feeling it, I generally know it's from feeling a bit boxed in and claustrophobic with life. The answer for me is to go and learn something new on the guitar. Write down what causes you to feel angry. It will help.
xjay1337 said:
Had my 6th session with therapist today. I feel worse than I have for a long time. I can't explain why. I think her telling me that the path we had been going down maybe was the wrong one hasn't helped. I'm not angry with her. It takes time to figure out the right strategy etc.
Just feel lost.
I had that as well with therapy, it took a while to untangle things and it hurt. I did come out the other side with a better understanding and less hurt though, but I can appreciate sometimes there are dead ends and they need to be recognised and treated differently to 'if you're going through Hell, keep going' Just feel lost.
mcelliott said:
I have no experience of being on them, but I didn't want to run the risk of seeing life through soft focus or everything feeling a bit fluffy, yet, I could be talking bks.
Yes. ks. 
mcelliott said:
I'd rather see things through a clear head - don't know if that makes sense. What I am experiencing at the moment are massive surges of anger - they really are quite frightening. I can literally flip at the smallest thing - I guess this is quite normal. Maybe this is the new normal from now on. .
They don't mess with your clarity, quite the opposite. I would like to point out that your (not normal) sudden mood changes and anger are probably due to not taking any medication to help.(Don't get mad at me!)
Been a while, thought I'd check in too.
I'd echo the sentiments that if you're diabetic, you take your medicine, it's just a chemical imbalance causing it and your depression is no different.
To Focus, your wife does sound like a very positive person, but (speaking from experience) she is (with the best of intentions) falling in to the same patterns that actually exacerbate your feelings.
I say from experience because I did exactly the same to my partner for many years, and it wasn't until learning more about depression, and ultimately now suffering with it (to a lesser degree) myself, that I was able to empathise with her feelings better.
To elaborate, she is not perceiving your illness as an actual illness, but as a state of mind, which is thus ultimately a failing of your personality. If you were in a wheelchair, she wouldn't be telling you to think happy thoughts and be grateful for what you've got to try and help you walk again.
I cannot stress enough that this isn't her fault, and I wanted to point out I'd done the same to ensure you don't interpret it as a criticism of her, it's just a reflection of her (and most people's) unintentional perception of mental illness, and it is a very difficult thing to change.
I found there were quite a few websites (typically written by depression sufferers) that spelled out the usual '10 things not to say to a depressed person' etc. and then offered explanations as to why, most importantly focusing on how they actually make a depressed person feel. They can be enlightening for both parties, and I'd suggest giving them a google, and as your wife seems keen to better herself and learn I imagine she'll be open to it which is a great thing.
To waffle on a bit, I think the perception is so difficult to change for a lot of reasons. The whole nature of how we're (typically) raised being told that we just have to try hard enough, work hard enough blah blah and we can achieve things. Positivity overcomes adversity and so on. Naturally if someone is so 'depressed' that they're 'unable' to get out of bed, that can very easily be dismissed as some sort of failure of them to put enough effort in. After all, nobody 'likes' getting out of bed in the morning, we all have to do it, most of us manage it, so clearly you must be a failure.
The fact there is nothing visibly wrong is another huge part of it. This really struck me at Le Mans one year. My partner Beth and I were sat on the steps leading up to the main grandstand a few hours before the end of the race. A father and his wheelchair bound son got to the bottom of the steps, and his father picked him up and carried him up the stairs, positioning him against the railings at the top. Seeing this, I hopped up and grabbed the wheelchair and carried it up the few steps to give to him, just to lend a hand.
It struck me as I sat back down that nobody would ever do that for Beth. She is hugely debilitated by her depression and anxiety, but nobody can see it, so nobody would ever jump to her aid.
I'm sure many of us have at some time or another have had the thought that "how do I know that I see colours the same way that other people see colours?". We are given names to these colours, but the actual hue our brains 'see' is just learned and labelled. It appears normal to us because that's how it has always been.
Anyway, the general conclusion is that, ultimately, you can't know. Just like I bet you can't imagine a colour you haven't seen before.
Someone who hasn't had depression and has a healthy, let's even say 'normal', mind through no fault of their own, can't help but instinctively perceive the world and the workings of other minds the same way their mind works. They feel sad sometimes, they pick themselves up, they feel better. They don't want to go to work, but they give themselves a talking to and they get up and off they go. This is the way of things.
If you tell this person they'll wake up one morning and they CAN'T get out of bed, how could they understand that? Not can't as in, it's a bit difficult, it's unpleasant, you have to really make an effort, no, you actually can't. You want to. You know you should. You know you'll feel better if you do and terrible if you don't. You feel guilt, shame, like a failure, all you need to do is get up and get on with things. But you actually really can't.
Fortunately I've not been there, but I know Beth has, and I know it's not laziness or any of the other character flaws one could instinctively label that behaviour with given how one's own mind works. But that isn't the first place almost anyone would go to without really making an effort to empathise and understand, because so much of depression makes absolutely zero 'sense' to a healthy mind, because it just doesn't work like that.
Possibly the saddest realisation for me personally and that I imagine also contributes to why the perception is so hard to change, is once again contrary to how we're (typically) raised. Even taking as read what a horrible illness depression is, and the unbelievable misery it can cause, that would all be just that little bit more bearable if there was a nice Hollywood ending to it all.
For some it takes the kind of strength and resolve demonstrated by the most admirable of big screen protagonists just to get through the day, and the big Hollywood pay off at the end is in no way guaranteed. That's fking scary, and a very real, view-on-life shattering pill to make someone swallow. Ignorance is very much bliss. Yes, there are different depths of depression, and yes, millions of people live with it and successfully manage it, leading hugely fulfilling and ultimately happy lives, but it could be a very real battle that someone could face for the rest of their lives, and that's a bleak truth to learn, and one that is best not coped with alone.
I do have a habit of going off on one when I post in here, so apologies as always
I'd echo the sentiments that if you're diabetic, you take your medicine, it's just a chemical imbalance causing it and your depression is no different.
To Focus, your wife does sound like a very positive person, but (speaking from experience) she is (with the best of intentions) falling in to the same patterns that actually exacerbate your feelings.
I say from experience because I did exactly the same to my partner for many years, and it wasn't until learning more about depression, and ultimately now suffering with it (to a lesser degree) myself, that I was able to empathise with her feelings better.
To elaborate, she is not perceiving your illness as an actual illness, but as a state of mind, which is thus ultimately a failing of your personality. If you were in a wheelchair, she wouldn't be telling you to think happy thoughts and be grateful for what you've got to try and help you walk again.
I cannot stress enough that this isn't her fault, and I wanted to point out I'd done the same to ensure you don't interpret it as a criticism of her, it's just a reflection of her (and most people's) unintentional perception of mental illness, and it is a very difficult thing to change.
I found there were quite a few websites (typically written by depression sufferers) that spelled out the usual '10 things not to say to a depressed person' etc. and then offered explanations as to why, most importantly focusing on how they actually make a depressed person feel. They can be enlightening for both parties, and I'd suggest giving them a google, and as your wife seems keen to better herself and learn I imagine she'll be open to it which is a great thing.
To waffle on a bit, I think the perception is so difficult to change for a lot of reasons. The whole nature of how we're (typically) raised being told that we just have to try hard enough, work hard enough blah blah and we can achieve things. Positivity overcomes adversity and so on. Naturally if someone is so 'depressed' that they're 'unable' to get out of bed, that can very easily be dismissed as some sort of failure of them to put enough effort in. After all, nobody 'likes' getting out of bed in the morning, we all have to do it, most of us manage it, so clearly you must be a failure.
The fact there is nothing visibly wrong is another huge part of it. This really struck me at Le Mans one year. My partner Beth and I were sat on the steps leading up to the main grandstand a few hours before the end of the race. A father and his wheelchair bound son got to the bottom of the steps, and his father picked him up and carried him up the stairs, positioning him against the railings at the top. Seeing this, I hopped up and grabbed the wheelchair and carried it up the few steps to give to him, just to lend a hand.
It struck me as I sat back down that nobody would ever do that for Beth. She is hugely debilitated by her depression and anxiety, but nobody can see it, so nobody would ever jump to her aid.
I'm sure many of us have at some time or another have had the thought that "how do I know that I see colours the same way that other people see colours?". We are given names to these colours, but the actual hue our brains 'see' is just learned and labelled. It appears normal to us because that's how it has always been.
Anyway, the general conclusion is that, ultimately, you can't know. Just like I bet you can't imagine a colour you haven't seen before.
Someone who hasn't had depression and has a healthy, let's even say 'normal', mind through no fault of their own, can't help but instinctively perceive the world and the workings of other minds the same way their mind works. They feel sad sometimes, they pick themselves up, they feel better. They don't want to go to work, but they give themselves a talking to and they get up and off they go. This is the way of things.
If you tell this person they'll wake up one morning and they CAN'T get out of bed, how could they understand that? Not can't as in, it's a bit difficult, it's unpleasant, you have to really make an effort, no, you actually can't. You want to. You know you should. You know you'll feel better if you do and terrible if you don't. You feel guilt, shame, like a failure, all you need to do is get up and get on with things. But you actually really can't.
Fortunately I've not been there, but I know Beth has, and I know it's not laziness or any of the other character flaws one could instinctively label that behaviour with given how one's own mind works. But that isn't the first place almost anyone would go to without really making an effort to empathise and understand, because so much of depression makes absolutely zero 'sense' to a healthy mind, because it just doesn't work like that.
Possibly the saddest realisation for me personally and that I imagine also contributes to why the perception is so hard to change, is once again contrary to how we're (typically) raised. Even taking as read what a horrible illness depression is, and the unbelievable misery it can cause, that would all be just that little bit more bearable if there was a nice Hollywood ending to it all.
For some it takes the kind of strength and resolve demonstrated by the most admirable of big screen protagonists just to get through the day, and the big Hollywood pay off at the end is in no way guaranteed. That's f
king scary, and a very real, view-on-life shattering pill to make someone swallow. Ignorance is very much bliss. Yes, there are different depths of depression, and yes, millions of people live with it and successfully manage it, leading hugely fulfilling and ultimately happy lives, but it could be a very real battle that someone could face for the rest of their lives, and that's a bleak truth to learn, and one that is best not coped with alone.I do have a habit of going off on one when I post in here, so apologies as always
SturdyHSV said:
Been a while, thought I'd check in too.
I'd echo the sentiments that if you're diabetic, you take your medicine, it's just a chemical imbalance causing it and your depression is no different.
To Focus, your wife does sound like a very positive person, but (speaking from experience) she is (with the best of intentions) falling in to the same patterns that actually exacerbate your feelings.
I say from experience because I did exactly the same to my partner for many years, and it wasn't until learning more about depression, and ultimately now suffering with it (to a lesser degree) myself, that I was able to empathise with her feelings better.
To elaborate, she is not perceiving your illness as an actual illness, but as a state of mind, which is thus ultimately a failing of your personality. If you were in a wheelchair, she wouldn't be telling you to think happy thoughts and be grateful for what you've got to try and help you walk again.
I cannot stress enough that this isn't her fault, and I wanted to point out I'd done the same to ensure you don't interpret it as a criticism of her, it's just a reflection of her (and most people's) unintentional perception of mental illness, and it is a very difficult thing to change.
I found there were quite a few websites (typically written by depression sufferers) that spelled out the usual '10 things not to say to a depressed person' etc. and then offered explanations as to why, most importantly focusing on how they actually make a depressed person feel. They can be enlightening for both parties, and I'd suggest giving them a google, and as your wife seems keen to better herself and learn I imagine she'll be open to it which is a great thing.
To waffle on a bit, I think the perception is so difficult to change for a lot of reasons. The whole nature of how we're (typically) raised being told that we just have to try hard enough, work hard enough blah blah and we can achieve things. Positivity overcomes adversity and so on. Naturally if someone is so 'depressed' that they're 'unable' to get out of bed, that can very easily be dismissed as some sort of failure of them to put enough effort in. After all, nobody 'likes' getting out of bed in the morning, we all have to do it, most of us manage it, so clearly you must be a failure.
The fact there is nothing visibly wrong is another huge part of it. This really struck me at Le Mans one year. My partner Beth and I were sat on the steps leading up to the main grandstand a few hours before the end of the race. A father and his wheelchair bound son got to the bottom of the steps, and his father picked him up and carried him up the stairs, positioning him against the railings at the top. Seeing this, I hopped up and grabbed the wheelchair and carried it up the few steps to give to him, just to lend a hand.
It struck me as I sat back down that nobody would ever do that for Beth. She is hugely debilitated by her depression and anxiety, but nobody can see it, so nobody would ever jump to her aid.
I'm sure many of us have at some time or another have had the thought that "how do I know that I see colours the same way that other people see colours?". We are given names to these colours, but the actual hue our brains 'see' is just learned and labelled. It appears normal to us because that's how it has always been.
Anyway, the general conclusion is that, ultimately, you can't know. Just like I bet you can't imagine a colour you haven't seen before.
Someone who hasn't had depression and has a healthy, let's even say 'normal', mind through no fault of their own, can't help but instinctively perceive the world and the workings of other minds the same way their mind works. They feel sad sometimes, they pick themselves up, they feel better. They don't want to go to work, but they give themselves a talking to and they get up and off they go. This is the way of things.
If you tell this person they'll wake up one morning and they CAN'T get out of bed, how could they understand that? Not can't as in, it's a bit difficult, it's unpleasant, you have to really make an effort, no, you actually can't. You want to. You know you should. You know you'll feel better if you do and terrible if you don't. You feel guilt, shame, like a failure, all you need to do is get up and get on with things. But you actually really can't.
Fortunately I've not been there, but I know Beth has, and I know it's not laziness or any of the other character flaws one could instinctively label that behaviour with given how one's own mind works. But that isn't the first place almost anyone would go to without really making an effort to empathise and understand, because so much of depression makes absolutely zero 'sense' to a healthy mind, because it just doesn't work like that.
Possibly the saddest realisation for me personally and that I imagine also contributes to why the perception is so hard to change, is once again contrary to how we're (typically) raised. Even taking as read what a horrible illness depression is, and the unbelievable misery it can cause, that would all be just that little bit more bearable if there was a nice Hollywood ending to it all.
For some it takes the kind of strength and resolve demonstrated by the most admirable of big screen protagonists just to get through the day, and the big Hollywood pay off at the end is in no way guaranteed. That's fking scary, and a very real, view-on-life shattering pill to make someone swallow. Ignorance is very much bliss. Yes, there are different depths of depression, and yes, millions of people live with it and successfully manage it, leading hugely fulfilling and ultimately happy lives, but it could be a very real battle that someone could face for the rest of their lives, and that's a bleak truth to learn, and one that is best not coped with alone.
I do have a habit of going off on one when I post in here, so apologies as always
Great post. I went through a bout of depression a year or so ago, the impact of 2 kids and increased workload and all sorts of stuff going on meant I would have rather just stayed in bed all day.I'd echo the sentiments that if you're diabetic, you take your medicine, it's just a chemical imbalance causing it and your depression is no different.
To Focus, your wife does sound like a very positive person, but (speaking from experience) she is (with the best of intentions) falling in to the same patterns that actually exacerbate your feelings.
I say from experience because I did exactly the same to my partner for many years, and it wasn't until learning more about depression, and ultimately now suffering with it (to a lesser degree) myself, that I was able to empathise with her feelings better.
To elaborate, she is not perceiving your illness as an actual illness, but as a state of mind, which is thus ultimately a failing of your personality. If you were in a wheelchair, she wouldn't be telling you to think happy thoughts and be grateful for what you've got to try and help you walk again.
I cannot stress enough that this isn't her fault, and I wanted to point out I'd done the same to ensure you don't interpret it as a criticism of her, it's just a reflection of her (and most people's) unintentional perception of mental illness, and it is a very difficult thing to change.
I found there were quite a few websites (typically written by depression sufferers) that spelled out the usual '10 things not to say to a depressed person' etc. and then offered explanations as to why, most importantly focusing on how they actually make a depressed person feel. They can be enlightening for both parties, and I'd suggest giving them a google, and as your wife seems keen to better herself and learn I imagine she'll be open to it which is a great thing.
To waffle on a bit, I think the perception is so difficult to change for a lot of reasons. The whole nature of how we're (typically) raised being told that we just have to try hard enough, work hard enough blah blah and we can achieve things. Positivity overcomes adversity and so on. Naturally if someone is so 'depressed' that they're 'unable' to get out of bed, that can very easily be dismissed as some sort of failure of them to put enough effort in. After all, nobody 'likes' getting out of bed in the morning, we all have to do it, most of us manage it, so clearly you must be a failure.
The fact there is nothing visibly wrong is another huge part of it. This really struck me at Le Mans one year. My partner Beth and I were sat on the steps leading up to the main grandstand a few hours before the end of the race. A father and his wheelchair bound son got to the bottom of the steps, and his father picked him up and carried him up the stairs, positioning him against the railings at the top. Seeing this, I hopped up and grabbed the wheelchair and carried it up the few steps to give to him, just to lend a hand.
It struck me as I sat back down that nobody would ever do that for Beth. She is hugely debilitated by her depression and anxiety, but nobody can see it, so nobody would ever jump to her aid.
I'm sure many of us have at some time or another have had the thought that "how do I know that I see colours the same way that other people see colours?". We are given names to these colours, but the actual hue our brains 'see' is just learned and labelled. It appears normal to us because that's how it has always been.
Anyway, the general conclusion is that, ultimately, you can't know. Just like I bet you can't imagine a colour you haven't seen before.
Someone who hasn't had depression and has a healthy, let's even say 'normal', mind through no fault of their own, can't help but instinctively perceive the world and the workings of other minds the same way their mind works. They feel sad sometimes, they pick themselves up, they feel better. They don't want to go to work, but they give themselves a talking to and they get up and off they go. This is the way of things.
If you tell this person they'll wake up one morning and they CAN'T get out of bed, how could they understand that? Not can't as in, it's a bit difficult, it's unpleasant, you have to really make an effort, no, you actually can't. You want to. You know you should. You know you'll feel better if you do and terrible if you don't. You feel guilt, shame, like a failure, all you need to do is get up and get on with things. But you actually really can't.
Fortunately I've not been there, but I know Beth has, and I know it's not laziness or any of the other character flaws one could instinctively label that behaviour with given how one's own mind works. But that isn't the first place almost anyone would go to without really making an effort to empathise and understand, because so much of depression makes absolutely zero 'sense' to a healthy mind, because it just doesn't work like that.
Possibly the saddest realisation for me personally and that I imagine also contributes to why the perception is so hard to change, is once again contrary to how we're (typically) raised. Even taking as read what a horrible illness depression is, and the unbelievable misery it can cause, that would all be just that little bit more bearable if there was a nice Hollywood ending to it all.
For some it takes the kind of strength and resolve demonstrated by the most admirable of big screen protagonists just to get through the day, and the big Hollywood pay off at the end is in no way guaranteed. That's f
king scary, and a very real, view-on-life shattering pill to make someone swallow. Ignorance is very much bliss. Yes, there are different depths of depression, and yes, millions of people live with it and successfully manage it, leading hugely fulfilling and ultimately happy lives, but it could be a very real battle that someone could face for the rest of their lives, and that's a bleak truth to learn, and one that is best not coped with alone.I do have a habit of going off on one when I post in here, so apologies as always
"Snap out of it" was just about the last thing I wanted to hear at that point, yet the Mrs carried on with these sort of lines which made me feel worse.
It was actually a good mate of mine who text me one day saying he had signed us both up for a charity climb up the 3 peaks of yorkshire and to get on a treadmill to get in shape. Turns out exercise and a 28mile hike was the medicine I needed and gradually did get back to my usual self in the run up to that.
This thread is undoublty my best contribution (in a small way) to PH. If it helps people then it’s definitely a good thing. Here is my latest thought on my depression.
https://howfootballruinedmylife.wordpress.com/2017...
https://howfootballruinedmylife.wordpress.com/2017...
Didn’t realise a thread like this was running on PH.
Apologies if I’m too descriptive.
I’ve suffered depression for a couple of years now. We went through several life issues, mostly, In the space of two years I found out my 12 yr old son had been abused, shortly after that the wife and I lost a baby very late in pregnancy and shortly after that my 12 yr old son got cancer although thankfully now clear. Then my wife lost her sister and mother to cancer and we supported her mother till the end.
I have a stressful job but this has never given me any issues and although the issues above were 4/5 years ago it hit me like a train 2 years ago as I’d got used to just smashing through it.
I’ve used the phrase a lot, smash though it. I kept going until I couldn’t go any more. Suicidal thoughts, anger, low confidence. I couldn’t even look the person behind the till in the local shop in the eye and if there was a queue at the shop or anywhere else I would turn and walk away. Breaking down crying for seemingly nothing.
There’s no smashing through it for me now, I talk about it to whoever asks rather than tell them I’m Okay.
I coped by eating a lot. Spending a lot on st I didn’t need. I became lazy and never got anything done. I hated myself and still do.
I’ve found that exercise helps, mixing with friends rather than withdrawing. I find walks in the mountains help to get out of the bubble.
We’ve got a dog, although she’s 11 I drag her out to the forest.
I’ve spoken to professional people about what’s gone on but it’s quite complex with several problems rather than one trigger if you like.
I’ve tried AD with a mixture of outcomes and currently coping without them for 6 months now.
I have bought a book called Depressive Illness, the curse of the strong and I found this a great help if only to help explain what’s going on and possible causes so that’s recommended for anyone who wants to take a look.
I’ve taken time off work although it’s not work related. Sometimes I’ve managed to stay at work during the bad times and can’t say if either way helped or not.
I’ve pretty much spewed all that out so hope it makes some sense.
Apologies if I’m too descriptive.
I’ve suffered depression for a couple of years now. We went through several life issues, mostly, In the space of two years I found out my 12 yr old son had been abused, shortly after that the wife and I lost a baby very late in pregnancy and shortly after that my 12 yr old son got cancer although thankfully now clear. Then my wife lost her sister and mother to cancer and we supported her mother till the end.
I have a stressful job but this has never given me any issues and although the issues above were 4/5 years ago it hit me like a train 2 years ago as I’d got used to just smashing through it.
I’ve used the phrase a lot, smash though it. I kept going until I couldn’t go any more. Suicidal thoughts, anger, low confidence. I couldn’t even look the person behind the till in the local shop in the eye and if there was a queue at the shop or anywhere else I would turn and walk away. Breaking down crying for seemingly nothing.
There’s no smashing through it for me now, I talk about it to whoever asks rather than tell them I’m Okay.
I coped by eating a lot. Spending a lot on s
t I didn’t need. I became lazy and never got anything done. I hated myself and still do. I’ve found that exercise helps, mixing with friends rather than withdrawing. I find walks in the mountains help to get out of the bubble.
We’ve got a dog, although she’s 11 I drag her out to the forest.
I’ve spoken to professional people about what’s gone on but it’s quite complex with several problems rather than one trigger if you like.
I’ve tried AD with a mixture of outcomes and currently coping without them for 6 months now.
I have bought a book called Depressive Illness, the curse of the strong and I found this a great help if only to help explain what’s going on and possible causes so that’s recommended for anyone who wants to take a look.
I’ve taken time off work although it’s not work related. Sometimes I’ve managed to stay at work during the bad times and can’t say if either way helped or not.
I’ve pretty much spewed all that out so hope it makes some sense.
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