Our obsession with longevity and health.....
Discussion
The problem is, we don't usually just suddenly stop and disappear like in some computer game. Most terminal illnesses take a long time with a lot of suffering. Even the quick illnesses (bar sudden heart attack) may last 6 months and usually the beginning of the end is when your consultant advises you to "get your affairs in order".
Excesses that lead to cancer, heart disease, liver problems or obesity can result in years of treatments, going back and forth to hospital, worry etc.
Of course, you can be really healthy and a hereditary disease may finish you off. Or you may get hit by a bus tomorrow (in about 14,500 tomorrows I have yet to accidentally come close to being hit by a bus; I don't know anyone who has died from being hit by a bus).
Personally, I quite like living so I want to increase the likelihood that I will live into my 80s. Of course, I say 80s because I'm under 50. When I'm 80, I will probably quite fancy living well into my 150s.
Excesses that lead to cancer, heart disease, liver problems or obesity can result in years of treatments, going back and forth to hospital, worry etc.
Of course, you can be really healthy and a hereditary disease may finish you off. Or you may get hit by a bus tomorrow (in about 14,500 tomorrows I have yet to accidentally come close to being hit by a bus; I don't know anyone who has died from being hit by a bus).
Personally, I quite like living so I want to increase the likelihood that I will live into my 80s. Of course, I say 80s because I'm under 50. When I'm 80, I will probably quite fancy living well into my 150s.
Mobile Chicane said:
I'm reminded of the old adage that if you give up wine, women and song, you don't necessarily live longer, it just seems like it.
That's brilliant. 2 things here.
-When reading health stories in the press it is invariably a journalist's interpretation of complex info, often missing the point or sensationalising. 'Life expectancy' is one of many measures of performance in national health policy, -but it isn't the overiding one.
-I'd say our obsession, our illogical obsession, -is with death. Illogical because living reasonably healthily is the best way to stave off early and preventable onset of chronic disease (vascular/heart disease, lung disease, diabetes etc). The greatest suffering is arguably encountered by those who notionally have 30 more years to live, but they can't breathe properly, walk to the pub, have sex, lark about in the garden with their grandkids etc because of their preventable illness. Anecdotally and in research, people with chronic disease are not happy bunnies. Death therefore becomes something of a fairly distant irrelevance. Tending to and maintaining those with chronic disease also costs the taxpayer billions. This is where the state effort comes in. Longevity has little to do with it.
ETA -missed hoofy's reply who makes a similar point.
-When reading health stories in the press it is invariably a journalist's interpretation of complex info, often missing the point or sensationalising. 'Life expectancy' is one of many measures of performance in national health policy, -but it isn't the overiding one.
-I'd say our obsession, our illogical obsession, -is with death. Illogical because living reasonably healthily is the best way to stave off early and preventable onset of chronic disease (vascular/heart disease, lung disease, diabetes etc). The greatest suffering is arguably encountered by those who notionally have 30 more years to live, but they can't breathe properly, walk to the pub, have sex, lark about in the garden with their grandkids etc because of their preventable illness. Anecdotally and in research, people with chronic disease are not happy bunnies. Death therefore becomes something of a fairly distant irrelevance. Tending to and maintaining those with chronic disease also costs the taxpayer billions. This is where the state effort comes in. Longevity has little to do with it.
ETA -missed hoofy's reply who makes a similar point.
Quality of life and length of life are different and I seem to be detecting a change in the medical profession over last couple of years, they seem to be trying to give more quality of life rather than just increasing length.
2 years extra of quality life is better than 10 years extra dribbling and drooling.
2 years extra of quality life is better than 10 years extra dribbling and drooling.
I don't expect to make it to my 60's, Im 42 ATM.
That is a choice I've made. Live for today, next week and at a max next year.
My husband is 20 years older so as long as I'm there for him, as I know he wants and will keep going, then I'm happy.
I work for the NHS and I will never let my husband go into a Care(a misnomer if ever one)Home Private or otherwise. I won't either.
I have a living will and think I'd like my last week in Switzerland. My Father and myself are both members of the Euthanasia Society (or we were, Daddy can't quite remember!! lol)
On a flip side my Father who installed in me this attitude is now in his 80's and constantly strives for better health. I keep telling him that he's just squandering my inheritance but he's too senile to understand!
That is a choice I've made. Live for today, next week and at a max next year.
My husband is 20 years older so as long as I'm there for him, as I know he wants and will keep going, then I'm happy.
I work for the NHS and I will never let my husband go into a Care(a misnomer if ever one)Home Private or otherwise. I won't either.
I have a living will and think I'd like my last week in Switzerland. My Father and myself are both members of the Euthanasia Society (or we were, Daddy can't quite remember!! lol)
On a flip side my Father who installed in me this attitude is now in his 80's and constantly strives for better health. I keep telling him that he's just squandering my inheritance but he's too senile to understand!
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Corsair7 said:
Me, I'd accept dying at 70, massive heart attack after spending a night of viagra induced passion in a hot tub with 4 'professional' women in their twenties.
A fiver says you'll have a different opinion when you're 69.Having worked with many elderly people and seeing some of the delights waiting in old age, I feel that I'd rather enjoy life whilst I can. Have children, achieve something cool that my kids will be proud of and be a good father to them. Of course, seeing grandchildren growing up would be an added bonus which I hope to live to see also; I'd imagine 70 would do it, whilst hopefully avoiding sanitary pads and mental wasting.
B3njamin said:
Having worked with many elderly people and seeing some of the delights waiting in old age, I feel that I'd rather enjoy life whilst I can. Have children, achieve something cool that my kids will be proud of and be a good father to them.
Can you not do all that and still live a healthy life?Hoofy said:
B3njamin said:
Having worked with many elderly people and seeing some of the delights waiting in old age, I feel that I'd rather enjoy life whilst I can. Have children, achieve something cool that my kids will be proud of and be a good father to them.
Can you not do all that and still live a healthy life?
13th said:
I smoke, I drink and I take risks.
Nothing ensures my demise but all add to it's likley occurance.
Ah, what kind of risks? Sounds like good material for a blog if it's not just running across the M1 because you like playing chicken. Mind you, that might make good material for a blog.Nothing ensures my demise but all add to it's likley occurance.
Hoofy said:
Ah, what kind of risks? Sounds like good material for a blog if it's not just running across the M1 because you like playing chicken. Mind you, that might make good material for a blog.
Nothing I'd put on an internet forum. but enough to pick the old heart rate up a notch or two ;-)
B3njamin said:
Hoofy said:
B3njamin said:
Having worked with many elderly people and seeing some of the delights waiting in old age, I feel that I'd rather enjoy life whilst I can. Have children, achieve something cool that my kids will be proud of and be a good father to them.
Can you not do all that and still live a healthy life?He is always berating me because I live on kebabs, don't eat veg etc and drink heavily every weekend chasing young skirt. I'm 37 and TBH have had a gutfull of the boomers going on about 'you need a pension for your retirement 'for the last 20 years. Well that didn't work out when Gordon brown shafted the private pension system. I never bought into it anyway, I wasn't going to live on nuts and water on the whim of a politician on the basis I may just live till I'm 90.
The playboy lifestyle was idolised in the 70's, the hard drinking womaniser, the saint, the milk tray ads, the proffesionals etc, let's face it most blokes secretly wanted that lifestyle. We have become risk averse and it's so bland.
markcoznottz said:
Define healthy though. My old man has never smoked or drunk alcohol. Eats very healthily etc. He is 65, has high blood pressure, sunken arches on his feet and is losing his hearing.
Hang on. Elevated blood pressure in your 60's is normal. Fallen arches and poor hearing is a shame but can be managed.You'd have missed him if he'd drunk/eaten/smoked his way to an early death in his 50's though?
You've also never seen him live with the misery of diabetes, stroke rehabilitation, dodgy heart, lung disease etc. -You seem to have taken his relatively healthy middle years for granted.
Is he generally a happy bloke? If he is, you have to ask yourself why?
captainzep said:
Hang on. Elevated blood pressure in your 60's is normal. Fallen arches and poor hearing is a shame but can be managed.
You'd have missed him if he'd drunk/eaten/smoked his way to an early death in his 50's though?
You've also never seen him live with the misery of diabetes, stroke rehabilitation, dodgy heart, lung disease etc. -You seem to have taken his relatively healthy middle years for granted.
Is he generally a happy bloke? If he is, you have to ask yourself why?
Happy? Happy is just a word, some people are happy with what they've achieved in life some aren't, or they are better at not showing it. You cant be grateful for getting something you've never had, I'm not sure people without lung cancer think about those who have that much. If you moan too much about your ailments people's eyes roll in thier heads, let alone ones you haven't got. We all take our parents for granted, I wouldn't have minded if he had smoked and drunk, i would have had no say in his choices really. You'd have missed him if he'd drunk/eaten/smoked his way to an early death in his 50's though?
You've also never seen him live with the misery of diabetes, stroke rehabilitation, dodgy heart, lung disease etc. -You seem to have taken his relatively healthy middle years for granted.
Is he generally a happy bloke? If he is, you have to ask yourself why?
why do people do things that are dangerous? Because they are enjoyable, why do people do drugs, ride motorcycles, etc it's more risky than gardening, but life's a gamble.
13th said:
I don't expect to make it to my 60's, Im 42 ATM.
That is a choice I've made. Live for today, next week and at a max next year.
My husband is 20 years older so as long as I'm there for him, as I know he wants and will keep going, then I'm happy.
I work for the NHS and I will never let my husband go into a Care(a misnomer if ever one)Home Private or otherwise. I won't either.
I have a living will and think I'd like my last week in Switzerland. My Father and myself are both members of the Euthanasia Society (or we were, Daddy can't quite remember!! lol)
On a flip side my Father who installed in me this attitude is now in his 80's and constantly strives for better health. I keep telling him that he's just squandering my inheritance but he's too senile to understand!
That is a choice I've made. Live for today, next week and at a max next year.
My husband is 20 years older so as long as I'm there for him, as I know he wants and will keep going, then I'm happy.
I work for the NHS and I will never let my husband go into a Care(a misnomer if ever one)Home Private or otherwise. I won't either.
I have a living will and think I'd like my last week in Switzerland. My Father and myself are both members of the Euthanasia Society (or we were, Daddy can't quite remember!! lol)
On a flip side my Father who installed in me this attitude is now in his 80's and constantly strives for better health. I keep telling him that he's just squandering my inheritance but he's too senile to understand!
A couple of genuine chuckles in there.My family moto has always been "Who wants to live until they're 90 and in a home?". Although I think my mother may have taken it a bit far by drinking herself to death at the age of 52.
I was in hospital last week, the youngest there. One of the old boys that was in was 92. He could hardly walk but managed it. Wasn't on any medication but was as deaf as a post as the staff all had to shout at him. He told the surgeon not to muck about taking grafts, but just to patch him up as "I'm 92 you know, don't need all that."
And despite all this, and being genuinely impressed with the old boy, it reconfimed my desire to NOT live to that age. I'm 43 now, maybe I'll change my mind as I go along, but at this moment in time I'd be happy to make it to 75 to be honest, so long as I'm mobile and capable of looking after myself.
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