Effing cancer is an effing effer, frankly

[GT3Manthey]

HairyMaclary said:

This thread certainly puts things in perspective and thoughts to everyone effected by this terrible disease. I have my own story but that's for another day... But would value some advice..

My best mate was diagnosed in Feb 20 with stage 4 bowel cancer that has spread to the liver. To say I'm gutted is an understatement. He's 41 with two small kids.

Long year but they managed to stabilise the tumors in the hope they could shrink them before taking them out. Two types of chemo and some radiotherapy later and things are getting bigger not smaller. He also has nodules on his lungs

Today was a good day. Meant bending the covid guidance but he's well enough so we spent a couple of hours in the sunshine on our motorbikes. It was great

I try not to talk about cancer until he does as we've had that talk and he says he wants days like today to be normal and full of the usual piss taking etc. That I can do.

But when we do start to talk about the heavy stuff what do I say? Professionally I'm supposed to be someone who can communicate complex stuff to important people, but I'm stumped.. I don't want to dismiss anything or brush st off nor can I say it will be OK. I can empathise and tell him to stay positive but it doesn't seem enough.

I know I can't make it better and I just hope that going out and doing something that isn't treatment or cancer related helps in some way.

Any ideas?

Really sorry to hear this.

I'd say the short answer is that as you are best mates and so he might want to have these chats with you and say how he feels as he either doesn't feel he has anyone else outside of the house he can have the heavy chats with and maybe chatting with you means he discusses it less at home with the kids around.

You know each other as best mates so just be yourself.

Talk to him about biking more regularly that might inspire him and make him happy and try and drag him away from the heavy stuff.

Bottom line is it might be helping him to discuss it with you.

41 is just no age. Again, really sorry to hear this

Edited by GT3Manthey on Monday 8th March 12:18

[anonymous-user]

I’m really sorry to hear about your mate.

I’d just make him clear that you’re there to listen whenever he wants to talk about it. You really cannot do more than that as a good friend.

Edit to add: whatever you say will probably be wrong and right in equal measure BUT he’ll be grateful to have someone to talk to and that’s what really matters.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 8th March 12:23

[ruggedscotty]

Not a great situation, and it feels like walking on eggshells...

hes not changed, still the guy he was so relate to that. and talk about it when he talks about it, often its the practicalities that make the most impact. being able to talk and be as relaxed as you cam all given.

its never an easy thing but be there to talk and do the things you both like. have a laugh when you can.

[Dibble]

Ask him how he’s feeling. Ask him what his worries are. Ask him how you can help. Ask him why he’s so slow/st at cornering/why he has such a rubbish coloured bike.

Most blokes are programmed to give solutions, so sometimes it’s difficult for us to just listen and not give “answers”. Just him being able to talk about it will help. It’s not remotely the same, but I had a full on meltdown with work-related PTSD a few years ago. A good mate of mine suggested writing everything down, which actually helped me, because it allowed me to process and rationalise some of the trauma. Being able to “edit” what had happened helped me make sense of it all.

By being able to talk to you, your mate may be able to process what is going on in his head, which I imagine will be a whole host of emotions. It might even be worth suggesting he writes stuff down, as it could help him with the processing/rationalisation side of things as well. No one else but him ever needs to see it (unless he wants them to). It could be a useful thing for his children in the future and it could be a useful thing for him now/in the short term, letting them know his thoughts/feelings/hopes aspirations, for himself as well as them.

You might have to prompt your mate to talk. Just say “Do you want to talk about stuff?” If he does, fine. If he doesn’t, also fine. He might be worried he’s burdening you by wanting to talk about it, so reassure him he isn’t.

[HairyMaclary]

Thanks all for taking the time to reply.

It is a really stty difficult situation. Its one of those tales about not being fobbed off by the GP. Didn't fit the profile for cancer let alone something so advanced. If you don't feel right keep going back because it could be something like this.

He's told me that he wants to keep a sense of normality when we can and not just be focused on the miserable stuff so will keep doing that. I've been to appointments, visited hospital and done all the practical stuff he's asked covering along his journey.

I suppose some of how I feel (I know my feelings are pretty irrelevant as I'm not the one whose sick!) comes from the want to make things better. That is something I can relate to but I've come to realise that it's very unlikely that this will have a happy outcome. It's a very odd and surreal space to be in.

The suggestion about writing stuff down is a good practical one. I'll steal that idea I need to man up and ask him outright how he's feeling on stuff next time we have a talk.

I'll keep taking the appropriate levels of piss and I'm sure he would do the same if it was the other way around.

Thanks all.

[Dibble]

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with telling your mate how you feel about it. He will no doubt know already that you’re worried about him. He might appreciate hearing it, even though he’ll already know.

I had a really hard time explaining to my Mum about my PTSD and just how bad things had got for me (to the point I tried to kill myself). I went over and saw her, with one of my sisters there as a bit of a buffer/moral support. I felt like I was talking to a brick wall (my Mum was always pretty “stiff upper lip”). It was really hard for me to tell her what had happened and to be honest, I was pretty upset at getting nothing back from her. She probably thought she was being strong and didn’t want me to see her being upset.

I got home, fuming and upset after a three hour drive (having driven over that day as well). I phoned my sister to let her know I was safely home and she told me our Mum had been really upset and in tears after I’d left. I knew my Mum cared for me/loved me, but it was still upsetting to me that she couldn’t “let go” in front of me.

You’re right, it’s not about you, but it actually sort of is, as well. When my best mate had cancer, I did tell him I was worried, but I also told him I’d be as much (or as little) help as he wanted and he never had to worry about calling me, even in the middle of the night. I know he already knew all that, but he did later tell me it was helpful to actually near me saying it out loud, all of it, so he was absolutely clear about everything and knew he had my support and he almost felt relieved I was worried. I’ve probably not explained that very well!

Also, because PH, what are the bikes?

[Hobnobgti]

Hoping it might help me to chime in on here - I don't post on PH a lot but am a long time lurker. Lost my Dad last night two weeks after he turned 60. Diagnosed with bladder cancer 2 months ago and its spread like wildfire through his bones, bone marrow, blood, organs, everything.

He lived out in France and thankfully I got out in time just to say goodbye. Haven't seen him previously for over a year thanks to Covid and I'm just in bits, as is my mum obviously. Thanks to French law around registering of deaths and funerals, we were straight into the funeral parlour this morning choosing coffins when it hasn't even registered that I've lost him yet.

I know you never get over these things but I've had mates experience the loss of a parent and they do get back to some kind of 'new normal' eventually, but I'm just completely broken right now.

[caiss4]

HairyMaclary said:

I know I can't make it better and I just hope that going out and doing something that isn't treatment or cancer related helps in some way.

This in spades. If you're diagnosed with cancer and going through treatment and the prognosis may be difficult then this is what you want (well speaking personally). I realise that we're all different but over the past 12 months this is all I would have wanted but Covid ensured it wasn't possible in person but at least possible virtually.

[Dibble]

Hobnobgti said:

Hoping it might help me to chime in on here - I don't post on PH a lot but am a long time lurker. Lost my Dad last night two weeks after he turned 60. Diagnosed with bladder cancer 2 months ago and its spread like wildfire through his bones, bone marrow, blood, organs, everything.

He lived out in France and thankfully I got out in time just to say goodbye. Haven't seen him previously for over a year thanks to Covid and I'm just in bits, as is my mum obviously. Thanks to French law around registering of deaths and funerals, we were straight into the funeral parlour this morning choosing coffins when it hasn't even registered that I've lost him yet.

I know you never get over these things but I've had mates experience the loss of a parent and they do get back to some kind of 'new normal' eventually, but I'm just completely broken right now.

There is nothing wrong with being broken. You’ve had a st experience and it’s fine to be in bits about. Things will get better in time. As you say, it’ll never be the same, but it will eventually get easier to bear. It does just take time and along the way you’ll have good days, not so good days and utterly st days. In the meantime, be kind to yourself. I’m sure getting there to be able to say goodbye will help, because you won’t have that nagging “what if” and I bet your Dad will have been glad he saw you as well.

[CAPP0]

HairyMaclary said:

This thread certainly puts things in perspective and thoughts to everyone effected by this terrible disease. I have my own story but that's for another day... But would value some advice..

My best mate was diagnosed in Feb 20 with stage 4 bowel cancer that has spread to the liver. To say I'm gutted is an understatement. He's 41 with two small kids.

Long year but they managed to stabilise the tumors in the hope they could shrink them before taking them out. Two types of chemo and some radiotherapy later and things are getting bigger not smaller. He also has nodules on his lungs

Today was a good day. Meant bending the covid guidance but he's well enough so we spent a couple of hours in the sunshine on our motorbikes. It was great

I try not to talk about cancer until he does as we've had that talk and he says he wants days like today to be normal and full of the usual piss taking etc. That I can do.

But when we do start to talk about the heavy stuff what do I say? Professionally I'm supposed to be someone who can communicate complex stuff to important people, but I'm stumped.. I don't want to dismiss anything or brush st off nor can I say it will be OK. I can empathise and tell him to stay positive but it doesn't seem enough.

I know I can't make it better and I just hope that going out and doing something that isn't treatment or cancer related helps in some way.

Any ideas?

For a moment there I thought you were talking about my BiL; the only difference is the age.

Sadly, we have his funeral tomorrow. Very similar symptoms to how you describe above. It was about 13 months from diagnosis until the end. A couple of months ago he was clearly very ill but still up and about, but he went downhill over the course of a week at the end of Feb and then departed.

I last saw him about 4 days before he died, and to try and answer your question, my sister spoke quite openly and quite often about the future (and in terms of that being on her own) and in front of him, so it was a very open subject. Everyone is different of course. I'm astounded (and massively impressed) by how stoic he was and how he was so open about things, setting himself short term targets as to what point he next wanted to get to. You'll have to sound your mate out as to how he is coping and dealing with it, but it may just be that he wants to talk about it openly and frankly.

(That said, I have no idea whether I could handle it like this myself if it were me who was ill).

I wish you both good luck, however your chats go.

[GT3Manthey]

CAPP0 said:

For a moment there I thought you were talking about my BiL; the only difference is the age.

Sadly, we have his funeral tomorrow. Very similar symptoms to how you describe above. It was about 13 months from diagnosis until the end. A couple of months ago he was clearly very ill but still up and about, but he went downhill over the course of a week at the end of Feb and then departed.

I last saw him about 4 days before he died, and to try and answer your question, my sister spoke quite openly and quite often about the future (and in terms of that being on her own) and in front of him, so it was a very open subject. Everyone is different of course. I'm astounded (and massively impressed) by how stoic he was and how he was so open about things, setting himself short term targets as to what point he next wanted to get to. You'll have to sound your mate out as to how he is coping and dealing with it, but it may just be that he wants to talk about it openly and frankly.

(That said, I have no idea whether I could handle it like this myself if it were me who was ill).

I wish you both good luck, however your chats go.

So sorry for your loss it’s a terrible disease and the more I read on threads such as this the more I look at the world ( people mainly) and just want to walk away from all of it.

Cancer doesn’t care about age or the people left behind so when I see selfish arrogant people I despise them and although I don’t wish unwell on them they clearly never stop and think about how something like cancer could totally change their lives.

They haven’t thought about the people that are suffering with something like cancer, the families it tears apart and the children growing up losing a parent or even a sibling.

Sorry if I’ve moved the thread away from your Bil slightly but reading these posts help to see these people for what they truly are.

Once again I’m very sorry for your loss.

I’m assuming Bil was your brother and I’m guessing too young to have died of this fukkkn horrible disease.

Edited by GT3Manthey on Tuesday 9th March 08:46

[HairyMaclary]

CAPP0 said:

HairyMaclary said:

This thread certainly puts things in perspective and thoughts to everyone effected by this terrible disease. I have my own story but that's for another day... But would value some advice..

My best mate was diagnosed in Feb 20 with stage 4 bowel cancer that has spread to the liver. To say I'm gutted is an understatement. He's 41 with two small kids.

Long year but they managed to stabilise the tumors in the hope they could shrink them before taking them out. Two types of chemo and some radiotherapy later and things are getting bigger not smaller. He also has nodules on his lungs

Today was a good day. Meant bending the covid guidance but he's well enough so we spent a couple of hours in the sunshine on our motorbikes. It was great

I try not to talk about cancer until he does as we've had that talk and he says he wants days like today to be normal and full of the usual piss taking etc. That I can do.

But when we do start to talk about the heavy stuff what do I say? Professionally I'm supposed to be someone who can communicate complex stuff to important people, but I'm stumped.. I don't want to dismiss anything or brush st off nor can I say it will be OK. I can empathise and tell him to stay positive but it doesn't seem enough.

I know I can't make it better and I just hope that going out and doing something that isn't treatment or cancer related helps in some way.

Any ideas?

For a moment there I thought you were talking about my BiL; the only difference is the age.

Sadly, we have his funeral tomorrow. Very similar symptoms to how you describe above. It was about 13 months from diagnosis until the end. A couple of months ago he was clearly very ill but still up and about, but he went downhill over the course of a week at the end of Feb and then departed.

I last saw him about 4 days before he died, and to try and answer your question, my sister spoke quite openly and quite often about the future (and in terms of that being on her own) and in front of him, so it was a very open subject. Everyone is different of course. I'm astounded (and massively impressed) by how stoic he was and how he was so open about things, setting himself short term targets as to what point he next wanted to get to. You'll have to sound your mate out as to how he is coping and dealing with it, but it may just be that he wants to talk about it openly and frankly.

(That said, I have no idea whether I could handle it like this myself if it were me who was ill).

I wish you both good luck, however your chats go.

Thanks CAPPO and sorry for your loss mate. It's a bd.

Weve talked about future plans which up till recently included a trip to do the stelvio, but the other day he let me know he was only thinking 6 weeks or so into the future. We speak daily but only see each other probs once a week. I can see the physical changes since last month

Dibble the bikes aren't exactly fire-breathing monsters. Me on my Versys 650 and him on a CB500X. Mine is quicker

[Peanut Gallery]

My sympathies.

As time is limited, instead of Stelvio in the future, how about the NC500 tomorrow?

(OK, I will go rinse my mouth out with soap for suggesting the NC500, you would be far better just going up the west coast, doing a 3 point turn in Durness, and heading back)

I'm also thinking that if he is busy, his mind wont be thinking of other things, and you will be there to speak to if he wants to speak, plus you get amazing views of the West Coast!

[Killer2005]

Seems Cancer is going to take my dad.

Diagnosed with prostate cancer in October 19, finished chemo in February last year but due to Covid didn't have any radiotherapy. Move forward to October last year and he caught Covid which put him in hospital before Christmas but during a scan they spotted some spots on his Liver.

He went back into hospital a few weeks ago as he was getting increasingly weak that was initially put down to Long Covid however following further scans show that the cancer had spread significantly. They discharged him on Monday but have given him a Do Not Resuscitate.

He's home but getting increasingly weak. They haven't actually told us how long he's got but it really doesn't seem like it's going to be long.

I'd come around to the thought that this Christmas was going to be the last Christmas I'd have with him but now it's only potentially a matter of weeks it's a different matter.

[Sheets Tabuer]

Sorry to hear that.

[LeadFarmer]

LeadFarmer said:

I'm in quite an awkward position...

I'm been helping the elderly neighbours of my mother (who is elderly herself) as he has terminal cancer with not long left to live.
Been doing shopping and collecting stuff for them, I'm happy to help where I can.

.....to make things worse, they have offered to gift me their car as a token of appreciation for helping them so far, but I can't accept a free car from a dying man, it's just not the right thing to do. Selfishly it also makes me think that accepting it would oblige me to do more and more for them, and to continue to do so after he has gone. I just can't do that. So the whole thing is getting pretty awkward. I want to help, but I don't want to feel obliged to help. Does that make sense?

Following on.......I've had to go round to help a few times when they've phoned me in the night after he's had a fall, to put him back into bed etc. Ive explained that they really need to consider having professional help to lift him. Whilst I can do it, I don't know if Im hurting him as he's on loads of morphine. They won't accept my advice and I now feel uncomfortable doing it incase I cause injury.Ive decided I won't do it anymore.

I've had his car on charge for the last few days with an extension cable plugged into my mothers garage and going over the hedge to their car. Brakes had seized on having been stood for ages, but I sorted that for them. Thankfully they have now arranged to give the car to their son, who I didn't even know existed. He travelled to visit them today, so i'm pleased that's now sorted.

Edited by LeadFarmer on Saturday 20th March 19:26

[LeadFarmer]

What I did find a little strange considering everything I've done for them recently was that the son never even knocked on my mothers door to say hello, or to pass on any thanks etc. I was at my mothers the whole time.

If that had been me, I'd have knocked on the door to ask her to pass on my thanks for everything. Whilst I don't do it for thanks, you would think that would be a natural reaction for looking after his dad. If roles were reversed, I'd have gone round to say thank you. Maybe he doesn't know?? Regardless, I found it a tad strange.

Nowt so strange as folk

[Stan the Bat]

I think that they didn't mention it to him ?

[General Price]

LeadFarmer said:

What I did find a little strange considering everything I've done for them recently was that the son never even knocked on my mothers door to say hello, or to pass on any thanks etc. I was at my mothers the whole time.

If that had been me, I'd have knocked on the door to ask her to pass on my thanks for everything. Whilst I don't do it for thanks, you would think that would be a natural reaction for looking after his dad. If roles were reversed, I'd have gone round to say thank you. Maybe he doesn't know?? Regardless, I found it a tad strange.

Nowt so strange as folk

Probably just waiting for the money.

At least you did the right thing.

[LeadFarmer]

General Price said:

Probably just waiting for the money.

Probably, I've never seen him in all the years, then when there's a free car in the offering he emerges

If someone had been helping my mother in that situation because I couldn't be there for her, I would be straight round to them and assuring them I'd be doing everything I could from now on, and minimising any impact to them. But not him. My problem isn't doing stuff for them whilst he's really ill, its more about what expectations the wife will then have of me when she's on her own. I think I will then need to distance myself.

Edited by LeadFarmer on Saturday 20th March 22:46